Baer Amplification Megathread!

[will33]

Honestly, every clip I hear from Kjung winds up sounding like Kjung with subtly different tone I don't understand the raving about this tone or that tone. I can't remember a clip he's posted that wasn't totally decent sounding at the worst.

Not to say I don't appreciate but I find the differences overall to be more subtle than people seem to feel.

You notice that too?

 

[nutdog]

Honestly, every clip I hear from Kjung winds up sounding like Kjung with subtly different tone I don't understand the raving about this tone or that tone. I can't remember a clip he's posted that wasn't totally decent sounding at the worst.

Not to say I don't appreciate but I find the differences overall to be more subtle than people seem to feel.

Honestly I can't tell a thing from the clips. I put up a youtube clip alternating between a wizzy 10 and an NV215 and asked people to identify which was which. 6 got it right, 4 wrong and 5 couldn't tell.

So I'm relying more on the comments than the clips. I've owned two cabs that Ken has demo'd and know that while I couldn't tell much from the recordings, there are significant differences in real life. And if you'd been in the room when I recorded the wizzy/NV you wouldn't have had any trouble knowing the difference.

 

[jerry]

You want casters on a 37 pound 112?
???

As for the 212, and casters being $65, I have an $18 magnacart I got at Walmart that works well on all my cabs, even moving 2 212's at once.

I have casters on my 30lb Epifani 1/12s.

 

[JimmyM]

Honestly, every clip I hear from Kjung winds up sounding like Kjung with subtly different tone I don't understand the raving about this tone or that tone. I can't remember a clip he's posted that wasn't totally decent sounding at the worst.

Not to say I don't appreciate but I find the differences overall to be more subtle than people seem to feel.

In the end, it's all in the hands. A lot of you gearheads on here like to claim it's all about gear and we "hands" people are full of crap, but I have heard Ken play on a lot of stuff in his Youtube vids, and I agree...they all sound about the same to me. Ergo, hands.

 

[rpsands]

In the end, it's all in the hands. A lot of you gearheads on here like to claim it's all about gear and we "hands" people are full of crap, but I have heard Ken play on a lot of stuff in his Youtube vids, and I agree...they all sound about the same to me. Ergo, hands.

I tend to err toward the (coined by me) 70/30 rule, that at least 70% of your tune is between your wrists and your 1/4" jack. Even crazy synthed out pedal freaks.

Don't look at me when you say gear head I use and advocate using exactly what it takes to get my (or your) sound. For me, gear snobbing is mostly about how loud it gets in how little pack space and how easy it is to set up. Ergonomics, convenience and raw performance.

 

[JimmyM]

I'd say that 70% is closer to 90% and it's between your wrists and your strings. Even when I use a completely different bass from my main two Fenders, it still sounds like me playing it, to the point where any real differences are rendered moot. And if I throw effects on it, I can, of course, get sounds that I can't get just by using hands, but it sounds like me with an effect on my bass.

 

[bongomania]

Since the Acme is described as having wider frequency range, and being less interesting in the mids; and the Baer is described as having emphasized mids with interesting tone; I have to wonder how they'd sound stacked?

I know the lower sensitivity of the Acme makes it a poor match "on paper", but Ken--would you mind giving it a try and letting us know how it sounds in reality? Even if it blows, that would be useful to know--and it might not blow!

 

[Chef]

I think this is true.
I did Ken's nails once, and he has nice hands.

Seriously though, I think the same thing, more or less, and, I've had people who know me say more or less the same thing:
"it's neat that you try a lot of different gear, but honestly, you sound pretty much like you no matter what you're playing.''

For better or worse

In the end, it's all in the hands. A lot of you gearheads on here like to claim it's all about gear and we "hands" people are full of crap, but I have heard Ken play on a lot of stuff in his Youtube vids, and I agree...they all sound about the same to me. Ergo, hands.

 

[B String]

In the end, it's all in the hands. A lot of you gearheads on here like to claim it's all about gear and we "hands" people are full of crap, but I have heard Ken play on a lot of stuff in his Youtube vids, and I agree...they all sound about the same to me. Ergo, hands.

I tend to agree for the most part that you sound how you sound, no matter (to an extent) what gear you play through. However, I also believe the gear you play through effects the way YOU hear the sound, and effects what you play.
I'm inspired to play a little differently on a P bass versus a Carvin Bromberg bass.

 

[R Baer]

In the end, it's all in the hands. A lot of you gearheads on here like to claim it's all about gear and we "hands" people are full of crap, but I have heard Ken play on a lot of stuff in his Youtube vids, and I agree...they all sound about the same to me. Ergo, hands.

Your'e right Jimmy, but still, I'm not guessing your'e trading in that new Ampeg for a Crate any time soon!

I tend to agree for the most part that you sound how you sound, no matter (to an extent) what gear you play through. However, I also believe the gear you play through effects the way YOU hear the sound, and effects what you play.
I'm inspired to play a little differently on a P bass versus a Carvin Bromberg bass.

There is something to be said for how you interact with certain pieces of gear compared to others. I used to play this club in Hollywood that had a backline Mesa 400 and one of those Mesa 410/15 cabs.. Not a bad rig at all, but in that particular room, it was always boom city. Pretty much every bass player sounded like mud in that room and you could just never really EQ it in right. So, now your'e up there doing your thing, trying to put on a good show, but your'e just hating your tone and it's hard to not let that distract you.

Now, on the other hand, you go into a room with your own rig, and your'e up there jamming away, the band is sounding great and your just in tone heaven, totally digging your sound. That interaction with your gear inspires you to play your best. So, yes, your tone is mostly in your fingers, but your gear can play a critical part in the equation. As for these guys that can play anything and don't really care what kind of rig they use, all I can say is that I so wish I could do that... it would have saved me a fortune over the years!

 

[JimmyM]

There is definitely an interaction dynamic with certain gear for certain people. And gear can make it a lot easier to get that inspirational thing going. So the quest for gear is an honorable one in my eyes. But our guitarist and I are total gear swappers (we're not rich enough to be gear whores) and rarely do we show up to our gigs with the same gear as the previous gig. Yet he'll tell me that a guitar he's using for one song doesn't work as well as the other guitar he brought, and I nod and agree, but it all sounds the same to me. And vice versa.

 

[KJung]

Hey guys. I totally agree that a decent player is going to sound like him or herself through most gear, especially most high end gear.

The reason I enjoy trying this stuff, and the reason that I have strong preferences on various cabs and heads is based on a few criteria:

1) How 'my sound' slots in the mix. There is a big difference in a mix among those subtle differences you hear on my clips or at a GTG

2) The level of compression on the low end when a small box is pushed (i.e., cranked, or digging in, or slapping). There is a HUGE difference among cabs and even heads regarding their performance when really pushed.

3) Related to 2 above, the ratio of absolute volume to size/weight.

4) Related to 1, the nature of the top end.... the upper mids to treble voicing of the cab, which can make the difference between your bass sounding like a P Bass with old flats in a dense mix (even if it is a J with new stainless steel roundwounds), or 'sound like it should sound'.

Clips are obviously only one data point from one person, but the differences that some seem to think are subtle can be HUGE in a mix, and also can result in a player being totally happy and relaxed with his/her tone, or fighting the darn thing all night.

IMO! The good news is, these clips literally take minutes to do, and as pointed out above in a post, are meant to add context to my reviews and comments versus standing alone in a vacuum

 

[mwbassace]

Your'e right Jimmy, but still, I'm not guessing your'e trading in that new Ampeg for a Crate any time soon!



There is something to be said for how you interact with certain pieces of gear compared to others. I used to play this club in Hollywood that had a backline Mesa 400 and one of those Mesa 410/15 cabs.. Not a bad rig at all, but in that particular room, it was always boom city. Pretty much every bass player sounded like mud in that room and you could just never really EQ it in right. So, now your'e up there doing your thing, trying to put on a good show, but your'e just hating your tone and it's hard to not let that distract you.

Now, on the other hand, you go into a room with your own rig, and your'e up there jamming away, the band is sounding great and your just in tone heaven, totally digging your sound. That interaction with your gear inspires you to play your best. So, yes, your tone is mostly in your fingers, but your gear can play a critical part in the equation. As for these guys that can play anything and don't really care what kind of rig they use, all I can say is that I so wish I could do that... it would have saved me a fortune over the years!

This is very true,at least for me. I know that nobody in the crowd can tell, but if my tone stinks to me it can affect my performance cause I'm distracted. It gets real bad with my guitar player, with him it can ruin everyone's night sometimes. So in this way gear becomes significant.

 

[KJung]

Forgive me for being so blunt but what's so super about this super 12? I thought the idea was relatively loud, small & light cabinet. At 37lbs it wouldn't seem all that different then a 210 like the AE ken demo'd in the vid?

Don't get me wrong sounded really nice.

Remember, the AE210 is, IMO, one of the most amazing 210's ever produced, regarding maximium volume, size, weight and IMO tone. That 'subtle' low end difference on the clip that you hear (i.e., the Baer extending lower) can be HUGE on the gig, especially given the mechanical superiority of these 12" drivers, which won't compress nearly as much as other 12's, and will totally blow away more 'typical' 210's, and virtually all 'production' 12's that I've played.

Again, per my post above, the lower tuning/low end extension that you can hear on my clips (subtle as it seems), combined with power handling and the mechanical ability to project that low end in a mix much better than the vast majority of cabs in this size range, make these various 112's a pretty big thing.

However, they all have their different voicings, and for a player like me who cares about the full range of the instrument, the difference in the upper mid/treble voicing of these cabs, along with the different low end tuning and midrange voicing, can be huge on a gig. EQ can make some of these cabs sound more similar (like the Baer and the AE210 to my ear), other cabs like the Acme have their own unique voice that comes through no matter what you do with the knobs. The top end of the Thunderchild is like that also. It 'is what it is', and is crystal clear and clean, no matter what, which can be a good thing or not so good, depending on what you are trying to do.

IMO!

 

[JimmyM]

This is very true,at least for me. I know that nobody in the crowd can tell, but if my tone stinks to me it can affect my performance cause I'm distracted. It gets real bad with my guitar player, with him it can ruin everyone's night sometimes. So in this way gear becomes significant.

You can take it to an extreme. I can safely say that having to play lacking gear has never ruined my night, and that kind of moodiness about it isn't healthy, especially when you're like me and you fly a lot and have to use rental gear.

 

[KJung]

You can take it to an extreme. I can safely say that having to play lacking gear has never ruined my night, and that kind of moodiness about it isn't healthy, especially when you're like me and you fly a lot and have to use rental gear.

I like this topic. I agree with you there, IF the gear can actually handle the gig.

For me, given my focus on 'small and light', that last 3db of volume, or whatever, can literally make or break a gig for me by the end of the night (per my post above on the criteria I use to judge a piece of gear). There hasn't been a 410 made that I can't make work. But, when you get down to the small 210's and 112's (and even some 212's), I've literally been in situations where the cab just won't give anymore.

That is what is so exciting to me about some of these 112 executions. They have greatly expanded the number and type of gigs on which I can use a small cab and give up VERY little versus my 410 or whatever. Pretty cool.

Like you, tonally, I could still be pretty happy with the various 100lb+ 410's or 2 x 115 boxes I used back in the day. But the idea that I can sound great (or at least sound like 'me'!) on all but the biggest gigs with a 35 pound 112 and a 4 pound amp, is just mind blowing to me, given that I started playing in the 70's.

Again, playing context has to also be taken into account. As I've posted often, if you are playing once a week in a 'band' with an equipment truck, group load ins, and especially in smaller cities where you park right next to the club, all this can seem silly. On the other hand, if you are a player like B String that freelances in LA, or the freelancers in New York, or even a freelancer like me that plays often in the downtown areas of mid sized cities like St. Louis, Chicago, Kansas City, Louisville, etc., etc., the ability to not compromise your sound and have a simple, one trip schlep that you can drag over curbs and stairs when needed is pretty amazing these days

 

[KJung]

Honestly, every clip I hear from Kjung winds up sounding like Kjung with subtly different tone I don't understand the raving about this tone or that tone. I can't remember a clip he's posted that wasn't totally decent sounding at the worst.

Not to say I don't appreciate but I find the differences overall to be more subtle than people seem to feel.

Thanks! You make some good points in some of the posts above.

One comment (and I know we don't completely agree on this), but the mix and match is also huge. By the time I post a clip, or bother to own and use a certain combination, I know it sounds pretty darn good, and reasonably close to what I want to achieve with my tone.

The voicings of various cabs, and the baked in voicing of various heads can combine wonderfully or not so well. The EQ on most all-in-one bass heads is relatively limited, and the baked in lo and hi passing, the preamp voicing, he limiting design, etc. can rarely be totally varied by the user.

So, by the time you hear a clip I post, there is a LOT of pre-screening going on to result in the combinations I'm happy enough with given the particular head, bass, and cab combination.

There are many combinations of otherwise good sounding gear that, at worst, sounds horrible, and more commonly, just doesn't quite make it.

For example, my P Bass with the Streamliner just 'works' for me with minimal knob twisting, with some of the cabs I own. With other cabs, or with my J bass, I can fight it all night, missing that 'bright tone and low end burp' that I love in my J tone.

So, in some ways, I guess you can say I work VERY hard in trying/screening gear that ends up sounding at least somewhat similar on my clips! LOTS of combinations don't make the cut (and I try to post about those combinations that I don't feel work so well).

Anyway, fun topic!

 

[JimmyM]

So we all agree then. Sort of.

 

[KJung]

There is something to be said for how you interact with certain pieces of gear compared to others. I used to play this club in Hollywood that had a backline Mesa 400 and one of those Mesa 410/15 cabs.. Not a bad rig at all, but in that particular room, it was always boom city. Pretty much every bass player sounded like mud in that room and you could just never really EQ it in right. So, now your'e up there doing your thing, trying to put on a good show, but your'e just hating your tone and it's hard to not let that distract you.

Now, on the other hand, you go into a room with your own rig, and your'e up there jamming away, the band is sounding great and your just in tone heaven, totally digging your sound. That interaction with your gear inspires you to play your best. So, yes, your tone is mostly in your fingers, but your gear can play a critical part in the equation. As for these guys that can play anything and don't really care what kind of rig they use, all I can say is that I so wish I could do that... it would have saved me a fortune over the years!

Hey Roger. Another thing that I tried to demonstrate in the various clips, is how great a slap tone can be with the right mid driver and crossover. The top end tone of your cab is the first 'mid driver loaded/no tweeter' cab that I would consider owning myself.

I would describe the top end of your cab (and I think this comes across in my clips) as 'bright with very little gank'. In other words, a nice upper mid response that isn't harsh, and enough extension into the treble region to provide the sparkle needed for my definition of a good slap tone.

The fact that overdriven tones also seem to sound great through your cab is quite an accomplishment IMO.

 

[KJung]

So we all agree then. Sort of.

I guess the only other point I would make is reiterating the point I made in response to RPSANDS.

The reason that most of my clips sound relatively similar is not 'by chance'. It is rather a result of a lot of pre screening of gear to find the combinations that optimally result in producing 'my tone' (which may or may not be liked by various players, of course). There is a TON of gear I try that does not make the cut, and I tend not to post clips of those combinations (although I do try to post about the good and the bad on various threads, based on 'IMO').

So, yes, like most, I sound 'pretty much like me' all the time, but I sound 'really like me' through some combinations, which is what I focus on. And, given that 'that tone' can be achieved through very different sized boxes and different price points, it all stays pretty interesting to me!