Baer Amplification Megathread!

[KJung]

If it were all in the hands we'd all be playing a $99 Ibanez starter pack.

I don't play fly dates and have gear supplied. I have a limited amount of funds and I have to carry whatever I play to wherever I play it. This includes up and down stairs. I don't have roadies or soundmen. I'm not getting any younger.

I'm not really a gearhead. I played the same rig for many years until it quit. I'm just trying to simplify but still be able to play a gig without a PA, without buying a van, without breaking my back and without starving my children.

If some of you guys can EQ any sound you want out of any rig, more power to you. I guess I just live with my limitations. For me, some gear gives a sound that I like better than others. There is a huge difference between a shuttle 9 through an LDS 12/6 and a STL through an AE210. You may not be able to tell on youtube, but then again, I don't play youtube gigs.

I've played 4 gigs with my latest rig incarnation, 3 outdoors, 1 in a boomy auditorium, and each time the rest of the band has commented on how good it sounds. None of them have said "you sound just like you always do". In fact, the first gig I set it up and didn't say anything about it to the band. After the first set the guitar player said "Holy $#!+ that new setup you got sounds awesome!"

+1 When I show up one weekend with an AE210, F500 and 70's J, and the next weekend with an Acme FullRange, a P Bass and a Streamliner, I guarantee that the guys who were on both gigs noticed Lots of love for both, in different ways!

The most comments I've gotten lately concerned the AE210. Since I have the final vertical version that looks exactly like a miniature AE212, and since I gig my AE212 a lot, I got a lot of strange looks of the 'honey, I shrunk the cab' type!

 

[alexclaber]

We have a lot of customers in the "I'm in a LOUD rock band and can't hear myself, please help!" bracket. It's amazing what a cab that doesn't have dips in the midrange, is decent off-axis and can put out fat lows without losing its punch (due to over-excursion) can do for getting you heard.

Having taken a lot of frequency response measurements over the last few years I can guarantee that the mellow top of AccuGrooves and the subdued midrange of the Acme 10"s is neither 'audiophile' nor truly 'flat', both are quiet in certain parts of the spectrum, so you can certainly aim to design a cab that really does measure flat without worrying about a lack of punch or clarity in the real world of loud gigs.

 

[fretno]

it's all about the subtle differences ,if it wasn't we would all still be using that TNT130 and Vantage .

 

[fretno]

Your'e right Jimmy, but still, I'm not guessing your'e trading in that new Ampeg for a Crate any time soon!



There is something to be said for how you interact with certain pieces of gear compared to others. I used to play this club in Hollywood that had a backline Mesa 400 and one of those Mesa 410/15 cabs.. Not a bad rig at all, but in that particular room, it was always boom city. Pretty much every bass player sounded like mud in that room and you could just never really EQ it in right. So, now your'e up there doing your thing, trying to put on a good show, but your'e just hating your tone and it's hard to not let that distract you.

Now, on the other hand, you go into a room with your own rig, and your'e up there jamming away, the band is sounding great and your just in tone heaven, totally digging your sound. That interaction with your gear inspires you to play your best. So, yes, your tone is mostly in your fingers, but your gear can play a critical part in the equation. As for these guys that can play anything and don't really care what kind of rig they use, all I can say is that I so wish I could do that... it would have saved me a fortune over the years!

lemmy guess.. COCONUT TEASZER ?

 

[B String]

+1 in that, again, a more typical mid voiced 210 cab will seem a bit louder than these 3012LF type cabs until you really get some watts into them. If you get them cranking, the low end will not only be more full (IMO and IME), but the cabs will handle peaks like slapping and digging in much better than a typical 210 (even a high end one like the Berg).

I would have to agree with this observation when dealing with the ML-112 next to the AE210.

Most of the time I would bring the ML-112 AND something else to the gig and switch between boxes. Usually using a Genz 9.0 or power amp and Sanamp Paradriver as a preamp.

At lower volume the AE210 seemed slightly more efficient, mainly in the low mids. However, as the volume level went up, that became much less important. When the AE210 reached its limit, the Baer cab just kept going with a certain lack of effort.

I brought the ML-112 to a gig I thought was inside a fairly big room. When I got there I found out we were actually outside on the Tennis courts of the country club, playing everything from standards to dance music with lots of B string. The box never even sounded strained. I had enough volume and low end. The Genz 9.0 was workin! Tube vol 1:00, vol 5:00, master full out. I was careful not to hit it too hard but no problems at all.

In all honesty, I've done this same thing with my AE210 with no nastiness coming from the Berg. I think this speaks volumes for the Genz 9.0's clean headroom.

 

[bongomania]

Since the Acme is described as having wider frequency range, and being less interesting in the mids; and the Baer is described as having emphasized mids with interesting tone; I have to wonder how they'd sound stacked?

I know the lower sensitivity of the Acme makes it a poor match "on paper", but Ken--would you mind giving it a try and letting us know how it sounds in reality? Even if it blows, that would be useful to know--and it might not blow!

Ken--looks like this might have gotten missed amid the discussion of "tone is in the hands".

Could you give this a shot and let us know what you think?

 

[bucephylus]

The Genz 9.0 was workin! Tube vol 1:00, vol 5:00, master full out. I was careful not to hit it too hard but no problems at all.

In all honesty, I've done this same thing with my AE210 with no nastiness coming from the Berg. I think this speaks volumes for the Genz 9.0's clean headroom.

I just find that amazing. I never get close to that kind of setting. Even outside, no PA. Different strokes for sure.

Nice to know the better cabs can take it.

 

[KJung]

Ken--looks like this might have gotten missed amid the discussion of "tone is in the hands".

Could you give this a shot and let us know what you think?

That would put me at 2.67 ohms with my 4ohm minimum heads. I guess I could slave one from the other... I might try that just to see. The 4ohm Acme impedance would balance it a bit with the 8ohm Baer.

 

[B String]

I just find that amazing. I never get close to that kind of setting. Even outside, no PA. Different strokes for sure.

Nice to know the better cabs can take it.

I can't see from your profile what gear you're using, but I can say there is a HUGE difference between making a living using great gear and cheaper, low end gear.

One of the reasons I want the best gear I can afford is... I never know what to expect when I get to a gig. I once went to a gig expecting a low volume piano, bass, drums, sax gig. I brought my Markbass 121P combo amp. When I arrived it ended up being all that plus guitar, two more horns and three vocalists, doing dance music. Someone just forgot to give me the info.
The Markbass 121P combo is expensive but just amazing for its size and weight. It has two rear ports. I was able to place the combo just the right distance from a bare wall in a corner.
This gave a huge boost to the low end, and with 300 watts worth of headroom I was able to cover the gig to the astonishment of the other band members. This is something I could never have done with a lesser piece of gear.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

It has two rear ports. I was able to place the combo just the right distance from a bare wall in a corner.
This gave a huge boost to the low end, and with 300 watts worth of headroom I was able to cover the gig to the astonishment of the other band members. This is something I could never have done with a lesser piece of gear.

Corner loading works with any cab, rear ported, front ported, or sealed.

 

[ACB0015]

To me, listening to all the clips, all the gear sounds good and I could gig with any of it. But the most significant advancement is with the cabs that can represent that lowest octave of the spectrum well, once you've heard and felt that, the others seem relatively thin. So that is what I'll be chasing.

 

[bucephylus]

I can't see from your profile what gear you're using, but I can say there is a HUGE difference between making a living using great gear and cheaper, low end gear.

Sorry, I'm fairly irresponsible with the profile thing. I've been mostly using a Shuttle 9 with either an AE212 or NV610 depending, and then use a Shuttle 12 with a pair of Schro 115+L's from time to time.

I keep reading Ken's columns on these smaller boxes because I generally share his interest in smaller and lighter. Go Ken, great stuff! (Even if you did move out of my old hood)

 

[JimmyM]

If it were all in the hands we'd all be playing a $99 Ibanez starter pack.

I don't play fly dates and have gear supplied. I have a limited amount of funds and I have to carry whatever I play to wherever I play it. This includes up and down stairs. I don't have roadies or soundmen. I'm not getting any younger.

I'm not really a gearhead. I played the same rig for many years until it quit. I'm just trying to simplify but still be able to play a gig without a PA, without buying a van, without breaking my back and without starving my children.

If some of you guys can EQ any sound you want out of any rig, more power to you. I guess I just live with my limitations. For me, some gear gives a sound that I like better than others. There is a huge difference between a shuttle 9 through an LDS 12/6 and a STL through an AE210. You may not be able to tell on youtube, but then again, I don't play youtube gigs.

I've played 4 gigs with my latest rig incarnation, 3 outdoors, 1 in a boomy auditorium, and each time the rest of the band has commented on how good it sounds. None of them have said "you sound just like you always do". In fact, the first gig I set it up and didn't say anything about it to the band. After the first set the guitar player said "Holy $#!+ that new setup you got sounds awesome!"

I think you're not seeing what I'm saying. Of course different gear sounds different. I play the gear I play because it hits my buttons in a way that other stuff doesn't. But whatever I play, I always end up making it sound like what I like in a bass tone, which means it sounds way more similar than different by the time it hits the PA. Maybe some folks don't do that, but the vast majority of folks I know do, therefore they always sound the same to me no matter what they use.

 

[Musicman20]

Wow, there is a seriously large difference between the STL 900 and when you plug in the F500. The STL 900 still sounds clear and crisp, but very 'big'...

Great clips. Out of all, Im quite shocked that on first impressions, I prefer the AE210.

 

[anonymous02282011]

Great clips. Out of all, Im quite shocked that on first impressions, I prefer the AE210.

yea, i was actually away from my computer while playing the clip (through some decent speakers) and when I heard what i later found was the AE210 my ears kinda perked up.

 

[KJung]

Wow, there is a seriously large difference between the STL 900 and when you plug in the F500. The STL 900 still sounds clear and crisp, but very 'big'...

Great clips. Out of all, Im quite shocked that on first impressions, I prefer the AE210.

I kind of boneheaded it and did not gain adjust the F500 versus the 'boosted' part of the Streamliner clip. So, even though the Streamliner is much fatter and smoother than the F500, the low volume setting on the F500 makes it sound more different than it really is.

Nothing to be shocked about in liking the AE210. That is one killer little cab. It is quite mid present versus these 12's, but in a good way, and I really enjoy it on the gig. It just slots itself into a mix beautifully. I am actually very impressed that the Baer ML2112 sounds a bit like a 'slightly bigger' AE210 to me... not bad company to keep!

It was kind of funny this afternoon. I've been playing through these small cabs for quite a while now, and have been gigging them recently. Since I have a very large gig without PA support, I got out the AE410 and Streamliner with the P, just to give it a quick check prior to loading it in the car in a few days. Man, what a complete hammer of the gods that thing is!!! Snarly, punchy, and massively full and loud! I love that cab!

 

[nutdog]

I think you're not seeing what I'm saying. Of course different gear sounds different. I play the gear I play because it hits my buttons in a way that other stuff doesn't. But whatever I play, I always end up making it sound like what I like in a bass tone, which means it sounds way more similar than different by the time it hits the PA. Maybe some folks don't do that, but the vast majority of folks I know do, therefore they always sound the same to me no matter what they use.

You may be right. I may not see what you're saying.

Some gear I haven't been able to make produce what I like in a bass tone. That may be my one of my many inadequacies.

But I want what I like in a bass tone to fold up and fit in my pocket when I'm done. Ideally it would pour me a drink and drive me home.

 

[Musicman20]

It was kind of funny this afternoon. I've been playing through these small cabs for quite a while now, and have been gigging them recently. Since I have a very large gig without PA support, I got out the AE410 and Streamliner with the P, just to give it a quick check prior to loading it in the car in a few days. Man, what a complete hammer of the gods that thing is!!! Snarly, punchy, and massively full and loud! I love that cab!

Haha, I bet! I wish I had snagged one of those.

 

[R Baer]

lemmy guess.. COCONUT TEASZER ?

LMAO ... YES !!!!

 

[B String]

I am actually very impressed that the Baer ML2112 sounds a bit like a 'slightly bigger' AE210 to me... not bad company to keep!

We are simpatico. The AE210 was one of the main boxes I threw the ML-112 up against. I think Roger was able to get the highs very similar to the smoothness of the berg's, with a slightly wider, more open, extended low end.

The AE210 is still one of the few cabs that knock me out, depending on the amp used with it.