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Bag End Setup question

#61
Anyone curious about the finish on the Bag End Nebula cabinets.. it’s very similar to that of a truck bed. Here’s one cab in the back of my friends pickup yesterday.
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2B8C1345-C716-400D-9789-AD64E1261EBF.jpeg
 
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#62
Ampslut said:
After reading the specs on the INFRA processor, it looks to me like a glorified active crossover and would be totally overkill in your application.(jmho) I've owned the F1-X (should have never sold it) and used it in a bi-amp configuration back in the 90's with a Hartke 4.5XL on the top and a 1x15XL on the bottom. I used a QSC USA 850 to power both. A F1-X with a class D stereo power amp would be killer with the 2 Bag End speakers you are considering. Also, there are many power amps with a built in crossover that will let you bi-amp with any pre-amp. You can, of course, run both cabs full range but you'll need a separate amp for each cab because of the impedance mismatch.
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It's more than an active crossover. It's also got equalization components to compensate for the driver being in a very small box. Essentially, it is something like a 6db per octave boost below a certain frequency and then a sharp high pass filter below a frequency deemed to be subsonic. That means that in the lowest frequencies, there's quite a huge boost. As noted before, this leads to a rig that can really deliver the low end, but if you try to drive it loud, you'll run out of headroom quickly. In this day and age, there are a lot of other cabinets that are lighter, louder, and will cost less while delivering perfectly excellent low end. If the huge massive low end is the desired result, save up for a Meyer rig. It will be far more effective.

But, consider the fact that this is all for a bass amp on stage. For just about every gig I've played in the last 25+ years, the PA has done the heavy lifting and having a lot of low end energy on stage just ends up muddying the overall mix as it not only creates boominess in the room, it bleeds into just about every mic. If your rig goes down to 50-60hz reasonably well, the whole band will be far better off than having the 18hz the Infra systems will do flying around.
 
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#63
Rhythmdoctor said:
So is the main diff between the F-2b and the SMS CTP that the latter has only 1 channel compared with two for the Alembic? If I'm running say a 1x18 and a 2x10, do I need two channels?
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It depends on what you want to do. If you are going to run in stereo from bass to speaker (separate outputs for each speaker), you'll need the F-2B or two CTPs, but otherwise, one preamp channel is fine. With 2 speakers that are not identical, a stereo power amp is crucial to controlling your sound, though.
 
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#64
edwinhurwitz said:
It's more than an active crossover. It's also got equalization components to compensate for the driver being in a very small box. Essentially, it is something like a 6db per octave boost below a certain frequency and then a sharp high pass filter below a frequency deemed to be subsonic. That means that in the lowest frequencies, there's quite a huge boost. As noted before, this leads to a rig that can really deliver the low end, but if you try to drive it loud, you'll run out of headroom quickly. In this day and age, there are a lot of other cabinets that are lighter, louder, and will cost less while delivering perfectly excellent low end. If the huge massive low end is the desired result, save up for a Meyer rig. It will be far more effective.

But, consider the fact that this is all for a bass amp on stage. For just about every gig I've played in the last 25+ years, the PA has done the heavy lifting and having a lot of low end energy on stage just ends up muddying the overall mix as it not only creates boominess in the room, it bleeds into just about every mic. If your rig goes down to 50-60hz reasonably well, the whole band will be far better off than having the 18hz the Infra systems will do flying around.
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I think the INFRA processor boosts response down to 18hz !!!!!. That kind of low end is for room shaking home theater applications and not bass guitar. I run a bi-amp rig using a BFM Simplexx 1x15 3015LF 4ohm crossed over at 250hz and a Rumble 500C for the top end. The 500C is self-powered and the sub with a Rumble 500 head. I also run a HP set to 40HZ to keep down the rumble on stage. It is far from boutique but the sound is clean, rich, and full frequency.
 
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#65
Ampslut said:
I think the INFRA processor boosts response down to 18hz !!!!!. That kind of low end is for room shaking home theater applications and not bass guitar. I run a bi-amp rig using a BFM Simplexx 1x15 3015LF 4ohm crossed over at 250hz and a Rumble 500C for the top end. The 500C is self-powered and the sub with a Rumble 500 head. I also run a HP set to 40HZ to keep down the rumble on stage. It is far from boutique but the sound is clean, rich, and full frequency.
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BFM is a legend in his own right!

I have an Infra system for my home studio, but the processor was a bit noisy and it wasn't all that accurate, so I replaced the system with Neumann KH80s and a KH750. I still have the double 10 sub, which I might try firing up with a Fender Showman for small bass gigs.
 
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#66
edwinhurwitz said:
It's more than an active crossover. It's also got equalization components to compensate for the driver being in a very small box. Essentially, it is something like a 6db per octave boost below a certain frequency and then a sharp high pass filter below a frequency deemed to be subsonic. That means that in the lowest frequencies, there's quite a huge boost. As noted before, this leads to a rig that can really deliver the low end, but if you try to drive it loud, you'll run out of headroom quickly. In this day and age, there are a lot of other cabinets that are lighter, louder, and will cost less while delivering perfectly excellent low end. If the huge massive low end is the desired result, save up for a Meyer rig. It will be far more effective.

But, consider the fact that this is all for a bass amp on stage. For just about every gig I've played in the last 25+ years, the PA has done the heavy lifting and having a lot of low end energy on stage just ends up muddying the overall mix as it not only creates boominess in the room, it bleeds into just about every mic. If your rig goes down to 50-60hz reasonably well, the whole band will be far better off than having the 18hz the Infra systems will do flying around.
Click to expand...
What other cabinets would you suggest that are lighter, louder etc? Have you played through a RevSound cab? They have a 2x15 for $1,200. A few folks on here suggested that brand.
 
#67
Rhythmdoctor said:
What other cabinets would you suggest that are lighter, louder etc? Have you played through a RevSound cab? They have a 2x15 for $1,200. A few folks on here suggested that brand.
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In your area, Mike Arnopol makes fantastic cabinets (here's the website, although I gather he's much easier to reach via FB: Welcome to Michael Arnopol Soundworks). I use his MAS 210 Flex, which is sadly no longer available. When I want to go old school, I use a Sunn 200S with JBL K140s. I used a Bergantino 3x10 as backline recently that I thought sounded great. But there are a bunch out there that I haven't even tried. In the last 10-15 years, the market has really exploded. I'm sure there are some places in Chicago to try things out.
 
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#70
Rhythmdoctor said:
Would this be a good preamp to use with my rig? I've given up on the Alembic preamps for now since there are no used ones I can find. I like Groove Tubes so hoping this is a good preamp!
Groove Tubes GT Electronics Studio Series Tube Preamp For Bass 1990s Brown | Atomic Music | Reverb
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I use this preamp at least 50% of the time these days. I like it a lot. It's got a particular tone (think Phil Lesh in the 1980s and 90s). It's also flat to 10hz, so I added a micro-Thumpinator between it and the power amp to reduce subsonics to my speaker (although the send to the FOH is still full range. I'll let the sound person deal with it as they wish). Never any complaints about my tone with this one!
 
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#71
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#72
Wasnex said:
AFAIK the GT Preamp was almost identical to the early the preamps in early SWR heads.
GT Electronics (Groove Tubes) Bass preamp (old SWR)
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That was my understanding, too. I went to buy a GT preamp back in 1988 and the shop I was at suggested I pay a bit more and get an SWR Studio 220 since the preamp in it was basically identical and it would give me the option of a standalone bass head if needed. I rarely if ever used the SWR without running the preamp out to a stereo power amp. I still have the SWR head but don't use it very often anymore. Mine is one of the ones made before they added the baked in high-pass filter, it is still a great sounding preamp but IMO the built in D.I was always a piece of junk and I never thought highly of the power section either.

edwinhurwitz said:
I use this preamp at least 50% of the time these days. I like it a lot. It's got a particular tone (think Phil Lesh in the 1980s and 90s). It's also flat to 10hz, so I added a micro-Thumpinator between it and the power amp to reduce subsonics to my speaker (although the send to the FOH is still full range. I'll let the sound person deal with it as they wish). Never any complaints about my tone with this one!
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I used he preamp in my SWR for years because I really like the way it sounds. I did run a Yamaha compressor set up as kind of a limiter with mine since the subsonic from the lowest notes on my five-string would clip my BGW 750 from time to time when playing loud, I had it set to only kick in for a microsecond when needed and it did not affect the signal to FOH. As much as I still like the old GT style preamp there are certainly newer designs with better EQ options available these days.
 
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#73
Rhythmdoctor said:
I'm open to suggestions! Give me some stuff to look into!
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Can I make a suggestion? The idea of a 2x10” on top of a 1x18” sounds like it should work great on paper. In real life, there’s usually not much to be gained by mixing-and-matching cabinets.

With Bag End, the efficiency and power handling is such that a single cab (of any configuration) is likely to give you more than enough output. If you need more volume/fullness, then add one more of the same cab.
 
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#78
Rhythmdoctor said:
I've secured an F-2b preamp, it should arrive in the next few days. I'm now leaning toward a RevSound cab, probably a 410. I like the vertical alignment. Anyways, I'm struggling now with what power amp I should be looking for. Any suggestions?
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My favorite for good clean, clear power is the Crest Prolite 3.0. I've tried a lot of power amps over the years from all the major companies and it sounds the best to me (next to a McIntosh, which is seriously impractical). However, because my rack became filled up with other stuff, I've been using a Quilter Bass Block 800 for power. It's crazy how light and powerful it is. I bought both used, so they can be had for not crazy $$$.
 
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#79
edwinhurwitz said:
My favorite for good clean, clear power is the Crest Prolite 3.0. I've tried a lot of power amps over the years from all the major companies and it sounds the best to me (next to a McIntosh, which is seriously impractical). However, because my rack became filled up with other stuff, I've been using a Quilter Bass Block 800 for power. It's crazy how light and powerful it is. I bought both used, so they can be had for not crazy $$$.
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Crest are great. Some of the later QSC (pre-Quilter) amps are great as well, and similarly lightweight.
 
#80
TomB said:
Crest are great. Some of the later QSC (pre-Quilter) amps are great as well, and similarly lightweight.
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QSC has been Quilter from the very beginning.(History of QSC Audio Products, Inc. – FundingUniverse). I've played a several of them and the only ones that I have found that have been really good are the professional touring amps. I bought one (CX1202v: CX1202V) at a yard sale for $150 about 10 years ago. It was an install amp with all binding posts for inputs and outputs, so I had to modify the connections to handle 1/4" inputs and speakon outputs. It was something like 700 wpc at 8 ohms and full bandwidth with very low distortion figures. Insanely powerful and really good sounding. I made the mistake once of running it bridged (2200 watts at low distortion and full bandwidth) and I wasn't paying attention and my fEARful cabinet literally burst into flames. It was a serious beast. The guy selling had a gig installing PAs in stadiums and it was left over from a job (and was coincidentally the father of one of my law school classmates). I haven't liked their prosumer amps nearly as well.
 
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