Bag End Setup question

[Rhythmdoctor]

I'm in the process of upgrading my rig which is a combo amp. I'm going to run a Bag End 2x10 with a Bag End 1x18. The newer ones come with power amps but I'm seeing some used ones without power amps. Here are my questions:

Do I need a power amp for each cabinet?
If I get a 2 channel preamp such as an Alembic F-1x or 2b, can I run each amp on separate channels as to not blend the sound?
Would the above be the right way to set this up?

I'm really ignorant when it comes to gear and stuff. I've been primarily an acoustic guitarist for my 30 years of playing, just taking up bass last summer. And as mentioned, I've been running two combo amps, a 2x12 and 1x15 both GK. So I have no experience with ohms and all this new bass technology. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I guess technically, this is a general setup question, not necessarily specific to Bag End.

 

[Murch]

I'm in the process of upgrading my rig which is a combo amp. I'm going to run a Bag End 2x10 with a Bag End 1x18. The newer ones come with power amps but I'm seeing some used ones without power amps. Here are my questions:

Do I need a power amp for each cabinet?
If I get a 2 channel preamp such as an Alembic F-1x or 2b, can I run each amp on separate channels as to not blend the sound?
Would the above be the right way to set this up?

I'm really ignorant when it comes to gear and stuff. I've been primarily an acoustic guitarist for my 30 years of playing, just taking up bass last summer. And as mentioned, I've been running two combo amps, a 2x12 and 1x15 both GK. So I have no experience with ohms and all this new bass technology. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Congratulations on your choice of Bag End cabinets, well-made, great sounding gear. To give a more detailed answer, it would help to know the exact models of Bag End cabinets you have chosen. You should not need a separate power amp for each cabinet, but information like cabinet impedance and power handling would help inform that decision.

You may want to post your question in the Bag End Club thread. There are people with a wealth of knowledge, and perhaps have run the same setup.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Congratulations on your choice of Bag End cabinets, well-made, great sounding gear. To give a more detailed answer, it would help to know the exact models of Bag End cabinets you have chosen. You should not need a separate power amp for each cabinet, but information like cabinet impedance and power handling would help inform that decision.

You may want to post your question in the Bag End Club thread. There are people with a wealth of knowledge, and perhaps have run the same setup.

Thank you and that makes sense. I will post my questions in that thread.

 

[TomB]

Assuming your cabs end up being passive, you’ll likely want a stereo power amp to drive them.

Your cabs are likely to be either 8 or 4 ohms. If 8 ohms each, you can drive them both with one side of the stereo amp, as most will deliver comfortably into the resulting 4 ohm load. If either or both cab are 4 ohm, you’ll likely want to run one from each side of the stereo power amp.

Turning to the preamp: if it has a single channel, most power amps will let you drive both amps with 1 input (stereo mode), and you can choose to then power both cabs, 1 per channel. …or if not, you can “split” the output into the two channels with a Y-cable.

If you DO end up with a 2 channel preamp, it’s easy - just run 1 channel into each side of the power amp, and power 1 cab per channel.

There are other options as well, especially involving your combo amps, or if your cabs end up being active, but I’m guessing this post is confusing enough already. Hope it helps.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Thanks, Tom. I posted this same question in the Bag End club thread. I also included the data/spec sheets for each Cab I'm considering.

 

[JW56789]

Just a clarification, re the Alembic preamps:

The F2B is a two channel (each full range) preamps with separate outputs if needed. Originally built for the Series Alembic basses which have stereo (or more properly, separate outputs for each pickup), the idea was to run each pickup separately through each side of the F2B, and then into separate amp/speaker stacks if desired. Of course, you can run only one channel straight to one side of a power amp for simplified full range operation.

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The F1X is a single channel preamp with a built in variable crossover, with separate outs for full range and both sides (high and low pass separately) of the crossover.

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[Rhythmdoctor]

Just a clarification, re the Alembic preamps:

The F2B is a two channel (each full range) preamps with separate outputs if needed. Originally built for the Series Alembic basses which have stereo (or more properly, separate outputs for each pickup), the idea was to run each pickup separately through each side of the F2B, and then into separate amp/speaker stacks if desired. Of course, you can run only one channel straight to one side of a power amp for simplified full range operation.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The F1X is a single channel preamp with a built in variable crossover, with separate outs for full range and both sides (high and low pass separately) of the crossover.

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And unfortunately, I don't know what any of that means, lol. I just started playing bass last summer after 30 years of primarily acoustic guitar. So even as a guitarist, I had minimal gear. My understanding after talking with Bag End is that the F-1x will be better for the rig I'm building but that the F-2b can be 'patched' or modified to work. Again, not sure 'why' that is, just going off what I was told.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I've re-posted this question in the Bag End Club thread. My post is here - Bag End Club.

I have provided data sheets for the cabs I'm shopping.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I've re-posted this question in the Bag End Club thread. My post is here - Bag End Club.

I have provided data sheets for the cabs I'm shopping.

I’m not saying don’t do it or that it wouldn’t sound good—with the right bass and player, I bet it would sound great!—but you do have the much less complicated option of getting a head (i.e. preamp and power amp in one box). This would not preclude you from using Bag End cabinets, either, though the powered ones would (again) complicate matters.

Even I can figure out the head/cab impedance thing if two cabinets have the same impedance two 8 ohm cabs equal a 4 ohm situation for the amp, which every head I have ever encountered can safely handle. Some can safely operate at 2 ohms, but not all, so check for that first. I have a head that can operate safely at 2 ohms, and I use two 4 ohm cabinets with it.

 

[TomB]

It appears both cabs are beefy and will handle the load, but one is 8 and the other 4 ohms. That suggests that you want a stereo power amp, and use one side for each cab. They will each handle the power a little differently, but you should be able to use the amp’s 2 separate volume controls to balance their output to your satisfaction. An amp that puts 500-750 watts/channel into 4 ohms would be good. The QSC GS5 recommended in the other thread is a good example. There are many of those and similar ones on the used market at good prices these days.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I’m not saying don’t do it or that it wouldn’t sound good—with the right bass and player, I bet it would sound great!—but you do have the much less complicated option of getting a head (i.e. preamp and power amp in one box). This would not preclude you from using Bag End cabinets, either, though the powered ones would (again) complicate matters.

True. Do you have any suggestions for that? I was really hoping to get the Alembic preamp but they're hard to find used, so your suggestion is a good one. Talk like I know nothing, because I don't, lol!!

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I’m not saying don’t do it or that it wouldn’t sound good—with the right bass and player, I bet it would sound great!—but you do have the much less complicated option of getting a head (i.e. preamp and power amp in one box). This would not preclude you from using Bag End cabinets, either, though the powered ones would (again) complicate matters.

Even I can figure out the head/cab impedance thing if two cabinets have the same impedance two 8 ohm cabs equal a 4 ohm situation for the amp, which every head I have ever encountered can safely handle. Some can safely operate at 2 ohms, but not all, so check for that first. I have a head that can operate safely at 2 ohms, and I use two 4 ohm cabinets with it.

I am looking at the non-powered Bag End cabs because those are what I'm seeing in the used market. I like your idea, tell me more

 

[Riff Ranger]

True. Do you have any suggestions for that? I was really hoping to get the Alembic preamp but they're hard to find used, so your suggestion is a good one. Talk like I know nothing, because I don't, lol!!

If you really want that Alembic preamp, you should figure out how to make it work (as you’re trying to do), because Alembic electronics are unusual (in a good way) if not unique. You seem like you’ll pick it up quickly. Then you can teach me

 

[TomB]

I’m not saying don’t do it or that it wouldn’t sound good—with the right bass and player, I bet it would sound great!—but you do have the much less complicated option of getting a head (i.e. preamp and power amp in one box). This would not preclude you from using Bag End cabinets, either, though the powered ones would (again) complicate matters.

Even I can figure out the head/cab impedance thing if two cabinets have the same impedance two 8 ohm cabs equal a 4 ohm situation for the amp, which every head I have ever encountered can safely handle. Some can safely operate at 2 ohms, but not all, so check for that first. I have a head that can operate safely at 2 ohms, and I use two 4 ohm cabinets with it.

Right! Actually only a handful operate at 2 ohms, so choose carefully. The 2 most talked on TB are the newer (Legacy and Fusion S) GK’s and the Mesa Subway line of products. Both are great and avoid the pre/power amp complication. Only thing is, they’re expensive compared to the used preamp and power amp markets, where you could be in business for a few hundred $’s.

 

[TomB]

Right! Actually only a handful operate at 2 ohms, so choose carefully. The 2 most talked on TB are the newer (Legacy and Fusion S) GK’s and the Mesa Subway line of products. Both are great and avoid the pre/power amp complication. Only thing is, they’re expensive compared to the used preamp and power amp markets, where you could be in business for a few hundred $’s.

PS - This Alembic preamps are getting quite rare (collectible?) so going with one + a stereo amp could easily run you as much as a 2-ohm class D amp, if you can even find an Alembic.

 

[trevcda]

S18E-D data sheet - https://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/S18E-D.pdf

Just a heads up- from the attached document: "It is a sealed box type enclosure optimized for use with the Bag End® Infra™ processors for extended low frequency response." It will make noise, but being a small sealed enclosure it's probably not going to go as deep or as loud as one would think. There are better choices from Bag End for your application. It's a great cab, I've got a couple myself, but processing and managed expectations need to be in place. If you don't blow it up, I'm always on the look out for another!

 

[REV]

Having had both, the sound of the FX-1 and the F2B is supposed to be the same except the F2B is stereo. I personally preferred the sound of the F2B. If you have a stereo power amp you can run one cab off of each side and use the F2B to adjust the tone for each cab separately. Both preamps are still available from Alembic but they are $$$$.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Having had both, the sound of the FX-1 and the F2B is supposed to be the same except the F2B is stereo. I personally preferred the sound of the F2B. If you have a stereo power amp you can run one cab off of each side and use the F2B to adjust the tone for each cab separately. Both preamps are still available from Alembic but they are $$$$.

Asking prices for used have been (at least) in the upper hundreds of U.S. dollars since I have paid attention. If you want what the Alembic can do, track one down; but if you’re looking to keep your costs down, you can save money and hassle with a head. Mesa’s D-800 and D-800+ go for less than 1,000 USD new, a bit less used, just as an example.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

S18E-D data sheet - https://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/S18E-D.pdf

Just a heads up- from the attached document: "It is a sealed box type enclosure optimized for use with the Bag End® Infra™ processors for extended low frequency response." It will make noise, but being a small sealed enclosure it's probably not going to go as deep or as loud as one would think. There are better choices from Bag End for your application. It's a great cab, I've got a couple myself, but processing and managed expectations need to be in place. If you don't blow it up, I'm always on the look out for another!

What about the newer version here - https://bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/IPS18E-N.pdf