Band break up - did I do the right thing?

[jthisdell]

Every band I've been in it is the singers who control the set list. Everyone else can recommend songs but if no one wants to sing them they do not go very far. Don't understand the idea of drafting a new set list without a new singer. A waste of drama IMHO.

 

[mellowinman]

Every band I've been in it is the singers who control the set list. Everyone else can recommend songs but if the no one wants to sing them they do not go very far. Don't understand the idea of drafting a new set list without a new singer. A waste of drama IMHO.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS...

There are not enough likes on the entire internet for me to express my agreement with this simple, obvious truth.

 

[jthisdell]

One like would do it...

 

[BassAndReeds]

Let me refine this for you.

He had some experience 10 years ago.
He does not have 10 years of experience.

Fair enough. I'd still like to know what songs were cut. And what songs were added.

I'm not a fan of democracies. And this holds especially true for a band setting. I prefer a bandleader and everyone else situation. But that doesn't mean the person that knows music the best should be bandleader. Many times the bandleader is the worst musician. But someone is going to be the best at booking gigs, and that person should be the bandleader. And that person should be making the decisions. Hopefully, they create a somewhat parliamentary dictatorship of the situation, so that everyone does have a say in some part of the band. Artists aren't good at doing things they don't like to do. But bands have a hard time staying together when they aren't playing gigs and/or making money. And it's up to the bandleader to keep everyone working and paid.

But where I think the drummer may be completely wrong, is his assumption that a good setlist will cause the band to succeed. And I'm not sure that's the case. A band needs to book gigs. There's a million tunes in every genre that could be acceptable, as long as you're playing the right genre for the venue. And I imagine you weren't playing the B sides, so the difference between playing Mustang Sally and Pride N Joy is mute. Bar want to know how many people are coming, and how many beers they're going to sell. And couldn't give any hoots as to what you played if you bring 100 people that all buy 5 beers and 3 shots.

That's a long way of saying, just because the drummer gave an ultimatum that the band needs to make serious changes, doesn't mean he's wrong. I would give an ultimatum to a band that smoked/drank too much on a gig. I have in the past gave an ultimatum to a bandleader that didn't book more than 4 gigs a year, because it wasn't enough work to be worth it to me. And no band is obligated to keep any member that gives an ultimatum, because it's perfectly fair to separate as civil human beings and friends with the understanding you have differing musical needs.

But, of course, if this drummer is just a J/O, well, that's another thing altogether.

Still would love to know what songs were cut and added.

 

[jthisdell]

I'm not a fan of democracies. And this holds especially true for a band setting. I prefer a bandleader and everyone else situation.

I'm currently in two bands, the one with a BL practices more regularly, learns a lot more songs, plays more gigs and honestly because of this we are having more fun and developing more as individual musicians. The one without a BL is sort of drifting along after five years with no one steering the boat. It happens that the BL is the best musician and lead singer but oddly he is more open to song suggestions than those in the democracy. He tends to get the gigs more because he is retired and has more spare time to pursue them.

 

[EricMordus]

ANY time a drummer has stepped up & attempted to take over a band I've been in, it has ended badly...
I'm NOT saying "all drummers are a-holes", really, I'm not.... BUT, they've ENDED BADLY....

Yo, dude, just be a drummer & let us drive...

 

[dalkowski]

This prompted our new drummer to call a band meeting in which he informed us that he didn't like our setlist and wanted to come up with his own setlist that we should play.

This was the beginning of the end. Your band didn't have a chance, at least not with that drummer.

 

[TeamScorpioRI]

New drummer was definitely unreasonable. He came into your band and decided that all the songs you guys play are not up to par? That is kind of BS. It sounds like he didn't want to learn any of the songs and switched to songs he knows instead of putting in the work. That kind of ego trip should not fly!

 

[hrodbert696]

Short answer, no, you're not wrong.

This was clearly an attempt by the drummer to take the band hostage. He attempted to seize the bandleader role when clearly no one else thought he should be bandleader. I agree that a purely democratic band can be asking for trouble. You need someone to set the tone and be the buck-stops-here guy. But at the same time, unless the band is how someone is paying their rent, band leadership is more like volunteer management than being the boss of a business. You can't give orders and expect people to obey; there's no leverage for that. You have to form consensus and make sure that what you're asking of people meets THEIR goals for being in the group. They have no reason to stay otherwise.

And also, yes, clearly an attempt to dodge having to learn new songs. I would agree, as a caveat, that I don't know if your existing set list was any better than his suggested one. If your list was incoherent or loaded with guitarists' favorite deep-cut wankfests that no crowd wants to hear, ever, then he may have had a point in saying you should change it. But as has been said, there are thousands of great songs in every genre and there's never a reason to insist that the setlist HAS to be composed of THESE 40 tunes and no others. His insistence on playing a fixed list with no flexibility tells me he was too lazy to learn anything new.

When I was putting Six Cowards together, I was in touch with a drummer over CL. Older guy, could sing, which would have been a great asset, and a good drummer. But I felt strongly that a band should be able to define its identity clearly, for booking purposes. We play modern alternative rock. He kept insisting that "you can't just do that, you HAVE to play classic rock as well." Err... no, we don't. I've been in plenty of this-n-that bands and they're almost always mediocre. He did not get the drumming position.

Another time, I started playing with a rockabilly band. I didn't have much background in the genre so I did some research, and I quickly realized that there are two different approaches, more traditional 50s rockabilly vs. contemporary retro stuff, psychobilly and all that. So I was asking which we wanted to be, and there was some divided opinion. I put some off-the-beaten-track stuff in an "ideas" folder in the band dropbox. The guitarist freaked out. Next rehearsal he said straight up that, basically, there was a lot going on his life so he just wasn't going to learn any new songs, period. The band was going to play the list that he already knew. That killed a lot of my interest, not so much that he wanted to keep it traditional as that it HAD to be HIS set list top to bottom, everyone else had to learn new songs but him. Even then I might have stuck around but he segued into a bizarre meltdown unloading on the drummer for no good reason. Good-bye.

 

[sawzalot]

Sounds like the drummer needed to learn how to get along with others. End of story.

 

[oldrocker]

Hi all,

This has been on my mind and I wanted to get some opinions...

I had been playing in a new cover band for a few months when things didn't work out with our original drummer. We managed to find a replacement but our singer left shortly after for personal reasons. This prompted our new drummer to call a band meeting in which he informed us that he didn't like our setlist and wanted to come up with his own setlist that we should play. Two days later he brought us a new list which had removed almost all of the thirty or so songs we had already learned.

The drummer also informed us that if we didn't want to play these new songs he wouldn't continue with us. We obliged his request and went along with the plan to begin with but had a few concerns/suggestions with the new setlist which we expressed. This seemed to frustrate him and he asked us to trust him and go along with the plan since he had been in a successful cover band 10 years prior. Even though he said we could choose other songs to add later, it became clear he wouldn't budge from his list of songs.

One of our two guitarists was all for this new plan, but myself and particularly our other guitarist had some reservations. At this point the drummer called me to see if I would continue without this original member to which I refused.

He then immediately posted a message in our group chat saying this wouldn't work and he left. Unfortunately our other guitarist decided to also leave shortly after leaving the band essentially destroyed.

I feel this drummer was being unreasonable, and I'm disappointed that his actions seemed to break up our core group which felt solid beforehand. The drummer claimed we wouldn't go anywhere without following his plan and believed he had the recipe for success. I can't stop thinking about this scenario and whether I did the right thing.

Thoughts? Sorry for long post!

Do you think maybe the personal reason the singer left had something to do with the new drummer. Sometimes people come up with excuses and they don't want to confront the real issues.

Had you played any gigs with the original line up? Who was singing in the revised band after the original singer left?

 

[trailer]

I'm probably more curious than I should be to see those lists. But arrrgh I wanna see em!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hi all,

This has been on my mind and I wanted to get some opinions...

I had been playing in a new cover band for a few months when things didn't work out with our original drummer. We managed to find a replacement but our singer left shortly after for personal reasons. This prompted our new drummer to call a band meeting in which he informed us that he didn't like our setlist and wanted to come up with his own setlist that we should play. Two days later he brought us a new list which had removed almost all of the thirty or so songs we had already learned.

The drummer also informed us that if we didn't want to play these new songs he wouldn't continue with us. We obliged his request and went along with the plan to begin with but had a few concerns/suggestions with the new setlist which we expressed. This seemed to frustrate him and he asked us to trust him and go along with the plan since he had been in a successful cover band 10 years prior. Even though he said we could choose other songs to add later, it became clear he wouldn't budge from his list of songs.

One of our two guitarists was all for this new plan, but myself and particularly our other guitarist had some reservations. At this point the drummer called me to see if I would continue without this original member to which I refused.

He then immediately posted a message in our group chat saying this wouldn't work and he left. Unfortunately our other guitarist decided to also leave shortly after leaving the band essentially destroyed.

I feel this drummer was being unreasonable, and I'm disappointed that his actions seemed to break up our core group which felt solid beforehand. The drummer claimed we wouldn't go anywhere without following his plan and believed he had the recipe for success. I can't stop thinking about this scenario and whether I did the right thing.

Thoughts? Sorry for long post!

Sorry for the break up, but under the circumstances, the drummer should not have be given the latitude to dictate the material. That should have been made clear up front. Yeah, you may still be looking for a drummer, but at least you would have most of a band left.

 

[Bass Man Dan]

Ahhh,the drummer fired himself! Commendable! He did you a great favor. Team up with your like-minded guitarist and start over with open minded normal people.

 

[mikewalker]

A drummer that fires himself is worth his weight in gold.

ooohhh.... this should be on a big banner somewhere at the top of the site

 

[TheOxRocks]

If the drummer is not also singing, he gets exactly ZERO say about the set list.

I had a non-singing keyboard player do the same thing. He was the last to join the band, played several gigs with us where he seemed just fine with the classic-rock stuff we were playing... and then suddenly decided that we were going to be a dance-pop band, jettisoned our entire set list and presented us with a new list of his own creation and said he would quit the band if we disagreed or refused to learn the songs. Within a month the entire band had collapsed around him.

It was the remnants of this band - sans the keyboard player - with whom I played this past Sunday.

My only proviso when I join a band is “I consider myself a singer who plays bass. I’d like to sing lead on, perhaps, a quarter to a third of the songs.” It’s rarely been a problem.

 

[whatizitman]

That the drummer felt the need to step up as a BL may not have been inappropriate, as the band was new and in flux. But a good leader would have tried to work with what the band already had going for it. Not change the entire thing in one big takeover. 10 years of band experience means nothing if you have no band.

 

[acid bass]

that a new guy was able to come in and completely destroy an existing band in such a seemingly short period of time (you didn't specify the time frame, of course), is pretty solid evidence that your band was not, in fact, very solid at all.

I probably agree with this more than anything. It sounds like things were either held together by your singer who left or none of you and that really is the crux of the issue here. Being dogmatic about songs is never beneficial to a cover band. But good cover bands will have discussions about the pros/cons of stuff and potentially even argue about it. These aren't earth-moving discussions so the fact that it split up your band indicates that things were probably in a more tenuous spot than you realized. In fact, I'd go so far as to say you were going to split up eventually even if you had gone along with the plan. Guys like that drummer will start off promising that they know exactly what to do because it worked 10 years ago. They never take responsibility if it doesn't and eventually they get fed up and quit the band because "it's going nowhere."

Quit wondering what-if. Find a group of like-minded guys and do what you wanna do.

 

[higain617]

Authoritarian (and lazy) drummers are the worst. It had to end.

 

[EdO.]

I'm probably more curious than I should be to see those lists. But arrrgh I wanna see em!

Pretty difficult to access the validity of the drummers argument without knowing what the existing set lists were versus what he wanted to do. Doesn't change the fact that he was an A-hole with an entirely out of control ego (which that alone would disqualify him from any group I'd ever want to be in) but IF HANDLED PROPERLY may have been worthy of at least some consideration. Post the damn song lists dude.

If I join an existing band I automatically assume that I'm going to be leaning their entire song list FIRST before I even open my mouth as to suggesting future song additions. If anyone doesn't understand that concept they're only asking for trouble and drama. I don't do drama so why would I ever want to create any? Band Membership 101 - you join our band, you learn our songlist first THEN we'll talk about future additions.