Band Drama, Your Thoughts Please

[wintremute]

Don't do it behind his back. Not only is that unethical, but you are risking more problems with the family members, who could key your cars, start fights, or just keep coming to gigs and make it worse.

That was my first reaction. I can see these rowdy people coming to your next gig and causing even more problems because you fired their boy.

I'm also wondering what 2Fingers is wondering...what kind of people and problems are they?

 

[EatS1stBassist]

Hey, I've been absent from the forums for awhile but something came up and I'd like your input.

The cover band I'm in is getting wobbly again. I've been in this band for about ten years and enjoy the songs, the area we play, and the guys... even though that has changed over the years and about to again.

The problem/question is the way this is going down doesn't sit well with me, but I'm not sure what to do about it. Let me outline the structure of the band:

Member 1) Last remaining founding member, about 14 years
Member 2) Second longest member, about 12 years
Member 3) Me, third longest at @10 years
Member 4) Newest member around 2 years

So we've had minor issues with Member 1 off and on, some with performance, some with family drama. Serious family drama. At gigs. Recently, Member 4 has expressed to Member 2 that he would like to replace Member 1. Unbeknownst to me. Also recently, the drama from Member 1's family at shows has been a big problem. Getting cut off, cursing bar owner, throwing chairs. Member 1 has no control over these family members. So the discussion to replace Member 1 finally came around to me as it's getting serious now.

The band started as an amateur band filled with about 5-6 amateur buddies. Over the years it's risen several notches higher with the newest member being the most professional yet. That's where the problem is. Member 4 is very unhappy with M1's performance difficulties, and because of drama problems that cost us gigs, so he wants to replace M1. Myself and M2 have a longer history with M1 and don't want to stab him in the back, but agree something should be done. I floated the idea that we should sit down and talk with M1 but honestly none of these problems are going to go away. This I know for a fact.

So the latest plan is to audition replacements for M1 without his knowledge, and eventually form a new band with that new member under a new band name, but continue the old band on a limited basis. This is so we can fulfill the current bookings with the old band, as we know for certain that if M1 finds out, he will quit in an uncontrolled rage. (Yes, sadly we are all older men.)

Our choices are limited. Continue on and wobble harder till we disintegrate; replace M1 behind his back and form new band; Fire M1, lose the bookings we have, and risk violent reaction from M1's family (seriously). Or... your idea.

TIA

Have all the members 2 3 and 4 quit the band one at a time drawing the dissolution of the band out over a period of time. Tell him no one is interested in the project anymore wait a while then reform. Wait long enough for him and his family to become disinterested. Get new gigs.

 

[PaulJSmith]

I'm in the "just quit" column. Been there, done that. The lingering problem will be that your band has a long tarnished reputation. Continuing the same band without Member #1 won't change that enough to placate club owners or even fans weary of the drama that always surrounds your gigs. If you're this sick of it, it's not a stretch to imagine they are, too. So, just move on.

Now, if everyone were to quit and start a new band without Member #1 ... I suspect you would find a great deal of support from the aforementioned club owners and fans.

 

[dr doofie]

Hey, I've been absent from the forums for awhile but something came up and I'd like your input.

The cover band I'm in is getting wobbly again. I've been in this band for about ten years and enjoy the songs, the area we play, and the guys... even though that has changed over the years and about to again.

The problem/question is the way this is going down doesn't sit well with me, but I'm not sure what to do about it. Let me outline the structure of the band:

Member 1) Last remaining founding member, about 14 years
Member 2) Second longest member, about 12 years
Member 3) Me, third longest at @10 years
Member 4) Newest member around 2 years

So we've had minor issues with Member 1 off and on, some with performance, some with family drama. Serious family drama. At gigs. Recently, Member 4 has expressed to Member 2 that he would like to replace Member 1. Unbeknownst to me. Also recently, the drama from Member 1's family at shows has been a big problem. Getting cut off, cursing bar owner, throwing chairs. Member 1 has no control over these family members. So the discussion to replace Member 1 finally came around to me as it's getting serious now.

The band started as an amateur band filled with about 5-6 amateur buddies. Over the years it's risen several notches higher with the newest member being the most professional yet. That's where the problem is. Member 4 is very unhappy with M1's performance difficulties, and because of drama problems that cost us gigs, so he wants to replace M1. Myself and M2 have a longer history with M1 and don't want to stab him in the back, but agree something should be done. I floated the idea that we should sit down and talk with M1 but honestly none of these problems are going to go away. This I know for a fact.

So the latest plan is to audition replacements for M1 without his knowledge, and eventually form a new band with that new member under a new band name, but continue the old band on a limited basis. This is so we can fulfill the current bookings with the old band, as we know for certain that if M1 finds out, he will quit in an uncontrolled rage. (Yes, sadly we are all older men.)

Our choices are limited. Continue on and wobble harder till we disintegrate; replace M1 behind his back and form new band; Fire M1, lose the bookings we have, and risk violent reaction from M1's family (seriously). Or... your idea.

TIA

Couple things. You've known and played with #1 10 years. That's a long time. #2 with #1 even longer. I'm in agreement with the others that you must must must sit down with 1, you and 2 do. He's owed at least that much if it hasn't been discussed. If you already know the outcome, so be it, he can't say it wasn't fair or reasonable. Lay out your case. Remain as calm as possible even if he gets steamed, which he undoubtedly will.
#4's presence at the meeting could go sideways. His discontent in 1 should be addressed to everyone, not just 2. Personal, non music relationship, aka friendship,must have some influence with you guys, right?
Whether you fire him or deal with him dishonestly, you're going to get hell from 1's family; imo no loss of previous bookings or commitments can supersede the real threat of violence or the loss of relationships. I too am an older man, and my heart goes out to you, cause there is no easy answer to this. But honest open communication will always trump deception, because you guys will be found out for it, and that scenario would be FAR worse than the first. Sorry so long, best of luck to you guys.

 

[ChrisB2]

Thank you to everyone for your replies.

Had a text exchange and M2 and M4 are on board with a talk although M2 got a little indignant, and revealed some things I didn't know that makes it unreasonable for him to give M1 another chance.

We also had the idea of one or all of us quitting and reforming. Problem is, we have a solid calendar of gigs this spring, every weekend, and none of us want to cancel. M4 already has auditions lined up for next week and knows a couple possible pros to step in so we don't have to cancel, but it leaves no time for a drawn out process.

To reply to a few posts:

That being said, I need/want some details.

So, these "family members" are just rowdy people? They are the kinds of people who go to a bar looking for a fight? They just like to destroy things? They are a gang of some sort? They are mentally ill? They are just sorry individuals?

What's the deal with them? What makes them think they can cause trouble wherever they go?

Rowdy people who overindulge and act foolish. Nothing too violent, but alcohol-fueled craziness sometimes gets out of hand. It's a fairly effed up family.

start a new band with a fresh outlook.

This was M2 & 4's original idea, only not quitting, just quietly replacing M1 and making a new band name.

Hoping for a happy outcome.

Thank you, I'll update this thread when something happens. The plan right now is band meeting after tomorrow night's gig.

Now, if everyone were to quit and start a new band without Member #1 ... I suspect you would find a great deal of support from the aforementioned club owners and fans.

Good point, and something I would like to see as well. I told the others that if something blows up tomorrow night (highly likely, birthday party for one of the crazies at the bar we're playing), that would force the conversation and make it look spontaneous. I'm ready to quit and so are the others, might be the way it goes down.

Thanks again.

 

[btmpancake]

Fire M1, lose the bookings we have, and risk violent reaction from M1's family (seriously). Or... your idea.

You make it sound like M1's family is connected to the mob...are they?
Are they members of a gang?
You may want to think about a witness protection program.

 

[Ellery]

You have some great ideas posted here. I believe it's important that both members of the band need to be united with you. Otherwise quit for real. Unless this is your primary income, if it's not fun anymore, than what's the point?

 

[ChrisB2]

Couple things. You've known and played with #1 10 years. That's a long time. #2 with #1 even longer. I'm in agreement with the others that you must must must sit down with 1, you and 2 do. He's owed at least that much if it hasn't been discussed. If you already know the outcome, so be it, he can't say it wasn't fair or reasonable. Lay out your case. Remain as calm as possible even if he gets steamed, which he undoubtedly will.
#4's presence at the meeting could go sideways. His discontent in 1 should be addressed to everyone, not just 2. Personal, non music relationship, aka friendship,must have some influence with you guys, right?
Whether you fire him or deal with him dishonestly, you're going to get hell from 1's family; imo no loss of previous bookings or commitments can supersede the real threat of violence or the loss of relationships. I too am an older man, and my heart goes out to you, cause there is no easy answer to this. But honest open communication will always trump deception, because you guys will be found out for it, and that scenario would be FAR worse than the first. Sorry so long, best of luck to you guys.

Thank you, I agree 100%. It's a tough situation, and thanks for the sympathy. #2 revealed that he has had many talks with #1 about getting things worked out. What I didn't make clear is that his inability to perform a four-hour gig is a bigger problem than his family. There really is no way to fix this, it's just too bad it all came down so fast. Ugh.

 

[ChrisB2]

You make it sound like M1's family is connected to the mob...are they?
Are they members of a gang?
You may want to think about a witness protection program.

Haha, I may have exaggerated. I don't expect actual physical violence, but they shore do like to holler!

 

[ChrisB2]

You have some great ideas posted here. I believe it's important that both members of the band need to be united with you. Otherwise quit for real. Unless this is your primary income, if it's not fun anymore, than what's the point?

Yes, great feedback, I appreciate it all.

That's the thing, it IS fun, and a good fit, except for this problem. Hopefully resolved soon.

 

[rtslinger]

Not right to do it behind his back number one, number two maybe easier to dissolve the band and start a new band without M-1 since he is a founding member it is a lot easier that way. I have been through the same issue in the past, great guy BL and decent drummer, but he would crawl into the bottle during gigs and unfortunately he was a mean drunk. So the remaining members just told him we can't work with him anymore and dissolved the partnership. We changed the band name and let club owners that we were booked at their place and they could re-schedule or cancel the gigs, but we had to replace or drummer and he booked us. Nearly all of them re-schedule us and we snatched up another drummer and moved on. He was out of the picture he had his memories of the band he started and he could keep the name if he wanted. We owed him nothing and started with a clean slate.

 

[ChrisB2]

Not right to do it behind his back number one, number two maybe easier to dissolve the band and start a new band without M-1 since he is a founding member it is a lot easier that way. I have been through the same issue in the past, great guy BL and decent drummer, but he would crawl into the bottle during gigs and unfortunately he was a mean drunk. So the remaining members just told him we can't work with him anymore and dissolved the partnership. We changed the band name and let club owners that we were booked at their place and they could re-schedule or cancel the gigs, but we had to replace or drummer and he booked us. Nearly all of them re-schedule us and we snatched up another drummer and moved on. He was out of the picture he had his memories of the band he started and he could keep the name if he wanted. We owed him nothing and started with a clean slate.

Great! Thanks, I'll propose this to the others.

 

[trofud]

Haha. Reminds me of my teenage years.

 

[ChrisB2]

After seeing @rtslinger post and realizing there's no way to fix this, I think I'm going to propose we dissolve the band Saturday night, tell him we can't work with him anymore and that we're moving on without him. Straight up, no if ands or buts.

What say you?

 

[btmpancake]

Haha, I may have exaggerated. I don't expect actual physical violence, but they shore do like to holler!

Yeah I sorta figured you were. I was trying to be funny in a not so funny situation. My bad,and good-luck.

 

[mrcbass]

I've never been a fan of the behind the back politicking with on the fence members. I always feel like I'm looking a dying member when rehearsing with guy I know is slated to be replaced. Went through that last year and I told the BL that it wasn't fair to the guy to keep stringing him along when we knew we looking for another guy. "Are you looking for another Bass player too?" That kind of got his attention, but we wound up not letting him know until we had a new guy lined up. We weren't gigging, so no external responsibilities to be concerned about.

With gigs on the books this gets a lot more complicated.
Have the "Last Chance" talk.

If he fails to control the situation, and he's a reasonable sort, let him know that he's now a sub until he can be replaced.

If he's not the cooperative type, find some subs and start the auditions - and wish him well.

I honestly don't know how you've tolerated the "family issues" this long - once might be able to be written off as an "oops- drank too much, sorry" situation. Second time is "never again". Third time is "shame on me" territory.

 

[sean_on_bass]

If you do decide to pull the plug, sell it to M1 as "we are quitting" as opposed to "you're fired". It could help him take it easier.

I've done this and it works.

 

[ChrisB2]

If you do decide to pull the plug, sell it to M1 as "we are quitting" as opposed to "you're fired". It could help him take it easier.

Good idea, I would like to do that but it's tough when we're booked every weekend. Would have to go back and tell all the venues that we're operating under a different name...

 

[baileyboy]

If Member #1 is not performing up to snuff, that is a reason to have a talk, possibly replace. He can NOT control his family members, however, and I don't think he should be penalized for their loutish behavior.

 

[bobba66]

I was at a Judas Priest show years ago and by the last encore there were several rows of seats on fire. It was pretty awesome.