Ah ha. And I forget....wasn't he a Brave?
Well I'm glad people up north are as suspicious as I am. People down here get funny whenever I bring up the idea that Clemens could have used steroids while he was in Toronto.
umm....751 huh.
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Baseball season 2007
- Thread starter SoComSurfing
- Start date
- Status
Ah ha. And I forget....wasn't he a Brave?
Well I'm glad people up north are as suspicious as I am. People down here get funny whenever I bring up the idea that Clemens could have used steroids while he was in Toronto.
umm....751 huh.
Ah ha. And I forget....wasn't he a Brave?
Well I'm glad people up north are as suspicious as I am. People down here get funny whenever I bring up the idea that Clemens could have used steroids while he was in Toronto.
umm....751 huh.
Not only in Toronto, with the Yanks as well - remember the game when he threw the bat at Piazza - if that was not 'roid rage I don't know what is. The Sox GM that didn't resign Clemens, Dan Duquette, was run out of town and taunted with his evaluation of Clemens being in the "twilight of his career" - how ironic that the Duke was right all along. Clemens
and Bonds linked forever in infamy - works for me. Interesting that the only previous discussion about Roger and the Hall of Fame was which hat he wears (he wants the Yankee, the HoF might have insisted on Red Sox); now it is whether he belongs or not. If he somehow does make it in - I say let him wear his Yankee hat. 
I was thinking about why the pitchers have gotten more of a pass on the steroids than the hitters. Part of it has to do with the quality of the evidence. Most of the hitters were either caught in the BALCO net or fingered by Canseco. Clemens was fingered by Grimsley and a bit by Canseco. No offense to the upstanding TB pitching corps, but perhaps the pitchers are better at cheating, or at least better at not talking about it as much whereas the hitters are a little too cocky and chatty.
I don't have much sympathy for poor Raffy - he flat out lied to Congress and afterward tested positive. McGuire didn't admit to anything but he essentially invoked the Fifth enough to constitute an admission in my book. A little remorse goes a long way with the American public.
Oh yeah, how 'bout them Yanks? 2 game win streak!
Coming from a fan of the 28(is that right?)time World Series winners, that's almost sad. 2 games...yay!
Oh, and of course pitchers are smarter than hitters, that's a given. Yeah, and I agree that is seems like the pitchers have gotten a Get out of Jail Free card. But why punish a bunch of people that were already murdered for 10 years with the abundance of slugging percentages and batting average. The poor guys have gone through enough! I do wish they'd raise the mound...I want to see Verlander throw 103 for a whole game...
And heck yeah, Clemens can wear his Astros hat....
oh, this morning I was skimming espn.com and I saw Petit's name...just me or did anyone else have the image of Petit and Clemens poking each other with needles and cream before their "workouts"?
Hey now, you leave Andy out of this!
I don't believe he's in any way a user, and I would be VERY disappointed to find out he was (of course, I'm disappointed by any of them that use)...
Check out:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109136&highlight=astros
That is the big problem - you can't leave out Andy (or any number of players including some I don't want to hear either). He's in the Grimsley affadavit with his good buddy Roger.
Louieeadg - I love the image of Clemens and Pettite - simultaneously hilarious
and horrifying 
. Blue Jay or Astros hat - either would be fine with me.
2 in a row - not bad, but the Yanks squandered their opportunity to close on the Sox in June when the Sox were not hitting and finished a game under .500.
The Sox have found their bats, 3-1 in July so far.
I don't know about pitchers being smarter than hitters - certainly more devious, or at best, clever. Now catchers - that's were the smarts are located on the diamond.
Yeah, my brother was a catcher. And he was always the smartest person on the field...can I get a cheer for Crash Davis?! Anyone?
Oh yeah, Petit was HUGE in the Yankees' success. Besides John Smoltz, he's that guy you do not want to face in October...and I'd be lying if I said I didn't thoroughly enjoy watching him, clemens, and oswalt pitch for a while. Very good baseball. And once again, here's my rundown about the downfall of the Yankees...and it was all Curt Schilling and Randy Johnson's fault. Haha!
'96-They played the Braves in the world series. While I did not enjoy the outcome. Its still one of the best Series I've ever had the opportunity to see. But remember the T-E-A-M they had? Notice I wrote TEAM real big. And what made them so lethal is that they used to hit and run, steal bases, and play defense like a National league team. Those were they days when Steinbreiner used to let Torre and Cashman do their jobs....(oh, and I'd like to go on record for saying that Mel Stottlemyre is THE most overrated pitching coach in the history of baseball. And that includes the moron that coached at my Junior High School when I was in 8th grade who told me change-ups were for junkballers)
'97-Marlins win...okay, they had a hell of a team that year. Never underestimate the power of Jim Leyland...
'98-Alright, while I'm not a Yankee fan, I'm much like you Josh, I've always been a baseball fan first. That entire season was a pleasure to watch that year. And once again, the Yankees had a very National League "style" of play. Lots of moving runners over, lots of stealing, lots of contact, and great pitching that season. But yet...if memory serves correct, their payroll was around 68 million. Right now that would buy you the Pirates.
And let's take a quick peek at the Yank's lineup that consisted of consistent players, no "sluggers", and their biggest names were on the pitching staff...David Wells baby!(besides jeter, but he was only in his 3rd season).
'99-Hmmm...okay, yeah yeah they murdered the braves but my point is it was with the same team plus Roger Clemens. But they would've won without him anyway...
2000-Another great series...or so I hear. I only watched the one game that Al Leiter pitched...and only for 2 innings...but-the biggest names were once again, the pitching staff. And might I add Jose Canseco was on that team...ahhh, Clemens and Canseco in the same clubhouse...hmmmm.....
2001-I like to call this series..."The Destruction of the Death Star". Man it was sweet...the only Yankees to show up for this series were Jeter, Martinez, Jeff Nelson, and Mike Stanton. I guess they had been there too much, they got sick of winning. But this is definetely the year George loses his mind...ever since 2001, its constantly throwing dollars and more dollars to get a ring. Since that year(still not a bad team, Paul O'Neil retired prior to that year. First big mistake was getting rid of Tino Martinez...he's a clubhouse guy, intangible. Then Giambi sold his soul to the Devil. The list goes on. Point is, they have yet to go back to that team dynamic they had for 4 years when they were the best team in Baseball history. They didn't have ruth, gehrig, or mantle. Should Franklin, Grant, and Jackson be wearing pinstripes?
Oh yeah, Petit was HUGE in the Yankees' success. Besides John Smoltz, he's that guy you do not want to face in October...and I'd be lying if I said I didn't thoroughly enjoy watching him, clemens, and oswalt pitch for a while. Very good baseball. And once again, here's my rundown about the downfall of the Yankees...and it was all Curt Schilling and Randy Johnson's fault. Haha!
'96-They played the Braves in the world series. While I did not enjoy the outcome. Its still one of the best Series I've ever had the opportunity to see. But remember the T-E-A-M they had? Notice I wrote TEAM real big. And what made them so lethal is that they used to hit and run, steal bases, and play defense like a National league team. Those were they days when Steinbreiner used to let Torre and Cashman do their jobs....(oh, and I'd like to go on record for saying that Mel Stottlemyre is THE most overrated pitching coach in the history of baseball. And that includes the moron that coached at my Junior High School when I was in 8th grade who told me change-ups were for junkballers)
'97-Marlins win...okay, they had a hell of a team that year. Never underestimate the power of Jim Leyland...
'98-Alright, while I'm not a Yankee fan, I'm much like you Josh, I've always been a baseball fan first. That entire season was a pleasure to watch that year. And once again, the Yankees had a very National League "style" of play. Lots of moving runners over, lots of stealing, lots of contact, and great pitching that season. But yet...if memory serves correct, their payroll was around 68 million. Right now that would buy you the Pirates.
And let's take a quick peek at the Yank's lineup that consisted of consistent players, no "sluggers", and their biggest names were on the pitching staff...David Wells baby!(besides jeter, but he was only in his 3rd season).
'99-Hmmm...okay, yeah yeah they murdered the braves but my point is it was with the same team plus Roger Clemens. But they would've won without him anyway...
2000-Another great series...or so I hear. I only watched the one game that Al Leiter pitched...and only for 2 innings...but-the biggest names were once again, the pitching staff. And might I add Jose Canseco was on that team...ahhh, Clemens and Canseco in the same clubhouse...hmmmm.....
2001-I like to call this series..."The Destruction of the Death Star". Man it was sweet...the only Yankees to show up for this series were Jeter, Martinez, Jeff Nelson, and Mike Stanton. I guess they had been there too much, they got sick of winning. But this is definetely the year George loses his mind...ever since 2001, its constantly throwing dollars and more dollars to get a ring. Since that year(still not a bad team, Paul O'Neil retired prior to that year. First big mistake was getting rid of Tino Martinez...he's a clubhouse guy, intangible. Then Giambi sold his soul to the Devil. The list goes on. Point is, they have yet to go back to that team dynamic they had for 4 years when they were the best team in Baseball history. They didn't have ruth, gehrig, or mantle. Should Franklin, Grant, and Jackson be wearing pinstripes?
Hate to say it but '03 was a great series. Must've given you a bit of an itch when Beckett signed with Boston
Actually...the entire '03 Playoffs was some of the best baseball I've ever watched. I prefer not to talk about the Sox/Yanks series :scowl: but other than that, great ball. Still feel bad for that poor soul in Chicago(even though nobody talks about the one hopper Alex Gonzalez missed on the very next pitch!) And did Mark Prior die?
I hope you don't mind that I do.
There would be no '04
for the Sox if not for '03
. In '03 the team knew they were better than the Yanks, but came up a little short. The bitterness of that series fueled '04 and there was a sense that they were not to be denied even when down 3-0. My theory on why he-who-must-not-be-named
left Pedro out there when everyone knew he was totally gassed with not even fumes left in the tank was that it was a passive aggressive FU to both Pedro (who could be difficult and often complained that he was taken out out of too many ballgames too quickly) and the Sox organization (who had a clear idea of how they wanted things to be run and it wasn't the way that he-who-etc was running it.)Here is the best illustration of what I mean by everyone knew Pedro was gassed by one of my favorite cartoonists
Link Removed
The Tigers rocked CC Sabathia today 12-3 and Verlander picked up his tenth win. The tigers are finally starting to play well at home. Are their any more valuable pitchers / players (trade value) in Baseball today then Verlander and Santana (twins)? No question they are the finest young pitchers in the game, and Verlanders only 22. That is scary if he stays healthy.
Not to be nit-picky but Verlander's 24. And yes, there are quite a few valuable pitchers...Mark Buerhle(Red Sox hopeful? You'd like that wouldn't you Dangnewt?) has been around quite a few trade talks. Other trade rumours have been going around about Roy Oswalt, Lance Berkman, Bobby Abreu, Mark Teixara, Jacque Jones, Jose Contreas, Javier Vasquez, and Brandon Lidge. And up for free-agency soon will be Carlos Zambrano, Tori Hunter, Andru Jones, Santana, Eric Gagne, Akinori Otsuka, and a few others...I forget. Yeah, there's plenty of good arms and bats out there. Could be quite a bit going on...I'd love to see Buerhle in Boston.
Yes yes, very scary. And what's scarier is Bonderman's only 26 or so and they have young Andrew Miller(tall lanky lefty from UNC, throws 96) who has looked exceptional this season. And he's supposed to be a jUnior in college this year. They have done some very good drafting in the past 5 years. Plus...you can't stop Jim Leyland!
My question was are their any more valuable players then Santana or Verlander? I doubt either will be traded in the near future. Yes their are trade rumors floating around about anyone with free agency approaching or who is on a non competitive team that expected to be good. I suspect the White Sox will be sellers, the Yankees need to be. The Rangers are definitely sellers. The Twins may not be because they have a good future with Leriano coming back next season. They may have arguably the best young core in baseball, but the small market issues keep them from adding good surrounding pieces.
Would be nice, but doesn't appear likely. Chicago will probably resign him. Even if things are not going well this year, he is a good foundation to build around for the White Sox. Besides they are only 4 games behind the Yankees in the wild card race - and I suspect that the Yankees will be buyers.
Burk - I am very happy to hear of Verlander's 10th victory today - that means the Red Sox won't see this time around.
Santana and Verlander are certainly valuable pitchers - I like my guys - Beckett and Papelbon. Santana is signed through 08 which is good otherwise Darth Steinbrenner would be throwing mounds of Yankee dollars at him.
For anyone who hasn't seen him pitch yet, I hope he gets in the game - he has one of the most unusual deliveries I have ever seen. As he releases the ball he is not looking at the plate, that has got to freak the hitters out.
Holy crap, who saw the ChiSox/Twins games today? I caught a few bits while I was at work, and just saw some highlights shown during the Braves/Padres game. 32 runs scored so far today by the Twins, and there's still two innings left to play!
Tigers picked up a nice win tonight with the rookie Miller looking strong ( 1 er, 7 IP) against the Red Sox. If the Tigers get any kind of Bullpen success in the second half their going to be darn tough. They smacked around Tavares today and their offense is hitting .297 and averaging 6 runs plus per game. Remember last year they led the majors in ERA, now they have all there starters back. The scary thing is Bonderman ( 9-1 3.81 era) is actually there most inconsistent starter. Rogers is 3-0 since his return and he's given up two runs!
How did the Twins miss that extra point against the White Sox? 20-14!
How did the Twins miss that extra point against the White Sox? 20-14!
yeah... a ton of runs for the twins...and i happen to have joe mauer on my fantasy team...niiiiice.
That was a nice win for the Tigers - the deal with Tavares as a former reliever is that the 2nd and 3rd time through the order teams will often figure him out.
I'd like to see the Sox take two this weekend but I'd be happy with one and a 10 game lead going into the break.
I agree that the bullpen is the weakest part of the Tiger team - time to spread some money around. But if you get hitting and starting pitching like that every night, you don't really need a bullpen.
Not only is the 20 runs the Twins put up amazing - but how would you feel if you put up 14 runs yourself and lost
I'd like to see the Sox take two this weekend but I'd be happy with one and a 10 game lead going into the break.
I agree that the bullpen is the weakest part of the Tiger team - time to spread some money around. But if you get hitting and starting pitching like that every night, you don't really need a bullpen.
Not only is the 20 runs the Twins put up amazing - but how would you feel if you put up 14 runs yourself and lost
Tigers sweep the Red Sox and rock DiceK pretty good. Those last five wins 3 over Boston, 2 over Cleveland look pretty good. I still feel the bullpen needs set up help but Zumiya and Rodney are coming of the IL soon. I wouldn't be surprised to see them trade. Mark Buehrle signed a long term deal with the White Sox today, so the best starting pitching help just went off the market.
bigfatbass
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They look really complacent. Reyes not running out that ground ball did it for me, these guy need a fire lit under their pants. Im hoping Minaya has something in the works, the Mets could use a shake-up.
Sometimes I wonder if Moises Alou is still alive.
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