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bass amps and "color"

#21
I compared the direct power amp sound of my KXB-500 and MiniMEGA amps. They sounded very very different, and quite similar to the sound of each AMP's full signal path including the preamps. I was a bit shocked at how different they were. The KXB500 lacked the extreme lows and had a lot of upper mids. The Peavey was more flat across the spectrum, with a lot of energy in the extreme lows.

I don't know how it applies to other amps. But it was a learning experience for me.
 
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#22
Actually, any device used for audio amplification can have a colored tone (and it's not always bad). It may be the cab, the amp or even the mixing board. It actually can happen so that a `colored' amp will give you more acoustic-like tone than the `flat' one or vice versa, so just choose the one you like.
 
#24
G Aichele said:
I've noticed a lot of talk about how different bass amp heads "color" the output sound in different ways. I'm used to playing with a power amp and like the way the output is relatively "transparent." Now I'm thinking of getting a micro amp head (used) to use the power amp side only for my practice rig. Do you think that the brand would make any difference? Does the "color" come mainly from the preamp, or does the power amp also produce "color"? Or is it pretty much true that a power amp is a power amp is a power amp?
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Unless it has a tube power section, it's the preamp that adds the color.

There should be no difference from one solid state power section to another in terms of tone, just volume/headroom.
 
#27
Geordiecs said:
I got a Quilter bass block 800 and so far it's the most transparent thing I've ever heard in the sense that it sounds like whatever you plug in to it. Despite the contour knobs, it truly lets the characteristics of the instrument shine through at any setting.
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More subjective words have never been spoken. Oops, this is TB, sorry, I retract that statement.
:D
G Aichele said:
Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful. I'm well aware that "color" and "transparent" are vague, dubious words in these contexts (hence the scare quotes), and I wish we had more precise terminology to use for these matters.
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Oh what a tangled web we weave when we ask for opinions on TB!

Totally agree with you, so subjective tone is. The only way to hear what your bass (and all of it's color-toned strings [steel, nickel, flats, ?] and pickups [single, double-coil, jazz, P, ??] and wood [let's not get started]) sounds like is to run straight into a 31-band EQ, into a power amp, and then into full-range speakers (PA, etc.). Use an audio analyzer to tune the system to the room you are in and then viola', that's what your bass sounds like without any coloration, as determined by purpose-built equipment for this task.

I've not heard many basses that sound good in this manner and thus revert to my particular amp 'color' of preference, which happens to be a Mesa 400 atm. Oh, I like Trace Elliot and GK too. Non-class-D but that's a whole 'nother argument.

For the n'th time I'll quote Tom B: "if it sounds good, it is good."

Raz
 
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#28
I'm going through this myself. I have a Peavey Mace VT coming in which has 6x 6L6GC tubes power section and a a SS Preamp. I just received a Peavey AlphaBass which also has a 6x6L6GC power section. I just got a Tube Works Real Tube RT-902 rack preamp. All I need now is a neutral cab to compare the Mace VT with and without the RT-902.
 
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#29
Razman said:
More subjective words have never been spoken. Oops, this is TB, sorry, I retract that statement.
:D

Oh what a tangled web we weave when we ask for opinions on TB!

Totally agree with you, so subjective tone is. The only way to hear what your bass (and all of it's color-toned strings [steel, nickel, flats, ?] and pickups [single, double-coil, jazz, P, ??] and wood [let's not get started]) sounds like is to run straight into a 31-band EQ, into a power amp, and then into full-range speakers (PA, etc.). Use an audio analyzer to tune the system to the room you are in and then viola', that's what your bass sounds like without any coloration, as determined by purpose-built equipment for this task.

I've not heard many basses that sound good in this manner and thus revert to my particular amp 'color' of preference, which happens to be a Mesa 400 atm. Oh, I like Trace Elliot and GK too. Non-class-D but that's a whole 'nother argument.

For the n'th time I'll quote Tom B: "if it sounds good, it is good."

Raz
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Yeah, hard to stay objective in a thread about amp color. I stand by what I said and I mean it when I say the sound that comes out sounds like the bass that's plugged in; my reference for this is the fact that I can plug 4 different basses in to my mesa bass 400+ and they all sound really really similar. I don't have the time or setup to make a scientific objective a/b video so this post is now null and void :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:
 
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#30
nomeX said:
I'm going through this myself. I have a Peavey Mace VT coming in which has 6x 6L6GC tubes power section and a a SS Preamp. I just received a Peavey AlphaBass which also has a 6x6L6GC power section. I just got a Tube Works Real Tube RT-902 rack preamp. All I need now is a neutral cab to compare the Mace VT with and without the RT-902.
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You're using a Mace VT as a bass amp?? How does the phase effect sound? I had one of these before when I was a noob on guitar - I loved that head!

rAz
 
#32
Razman said:
You're using a Mace VT as a bass amp?? How does the phase effect sound? I had one of these before when I was a noob on guitar - I loved that head!

rAz
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I will tell you when it arrives ;-) I also need a capable bass cab. The Mace VT, 160w is loud for guitars, but barely cuts it for bass in a live, loud setting -- perfect for my uses as a recording bass amp or grinding out. I prefer getting PA support, anyway. My local amp repair guy doesn't like working on SS stuff, but maybe I can convince him to give the Mace VT a once-over since it's got a six pack of big bottles (and maybe I bring a six-pack for us).

I blame the guys at the Fender Super Twin thread... They got me all gassed for turning overpowered (nowadays) tube amps into bass amps. I almost made my dream come true with two Super Twin Reverbs flanking a Studio Bass combo, but I moved a little too slow. I got one STR, however, and it's in the shop. 180w. 6x 6L6GC also. These tube replacements are gonna hurt...

The funny thing is, my Peavey Triumph 120 combo may have the biggest Output Transformers of all my amps! I'll have to post a pic when I get home tonight.
 
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#33
G Aichele said:
Do you think that the brand would make any difference? Or is it pretty much true that a power amp is a power amp is a power amp?
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In class D micro heads it's mostly true because everybody is using the same two or three available power modules.

From an amp shootout published in Bass Player magazine in Sept. 2016:
Like virtually every other lightweight Class D/SMPS head on the market, the Subway D-800 utilizes a 3rd-party power amplifier and power-supply module, in this case the ICEpower 700ASC/X. The know-how and R&D resources required to design a high-performing Class D amplifier and robust switchmode power supply are simply out of the scope of most bass amplifier manufacturers, especially given the extraordinary performance of modules from ICEpower and other manufacturers selling amp/power supply modules as original equipment. Rather, the unique stamp of each amp builder is better seen in the preamp tone and overall design integration of a given head.

To get some clarity on this subject, we spoke with Paul Meister, Sales Manager for ICEpower America, which builds the module found in several of the amps in this roundup.
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#35
If you play out in a band, no one in the audience cares if your sound is transparent or colored. They just want to hear and feel thump. If you are playing in a studio, the sound engineer is going to make adjustments to your sound for clarity and a good mix. Sometimes it's not worth the worry.
 
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#37
JimmyM said:
It's ok to disagree, but after years of being forced to make all manner of rental amps work for me, including amps with a Fender tone stack, I'm more than happy to twist knobs to get what I want. I start with knobs at noon when I get an unfamiliar amp, but they hardly ever end up that way.
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Damn straight.
 
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#39
hsech said:
If you play out in a band, no one in the audience cares if your sound is transparent or colored. They just want to hear and feel thump. If you are playing in a studio, the sound engineer is going to make adjustments to your sound for clarity and a good mix. Sometimes it's not worth the worry.
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Right. We should just quit and let ourselves be replaced by a foghorn.
 
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