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bass amps and "color"

#41
JimmyM said:
Right. We should just quit and let ourselves be replaced by a foghorn.
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I've played with some sound techs in big clubs where their primary goal for the FOH bass was to set off the maximum number of car alarms in the parking lot. I always have a tone in my head that helps me play my best and I always try to set up to hear that for myself. However, I would tend to agree that most of the audience doesn't come with a predetermined sound for my bass and are generally happy with right notes, tasteful riffs, and a solid groove.

OBTW, I usually only play those "foghorn biased" clubs once - I haven't spent over 40 years learning my instrument and working on my sound to simply be a "live noise generator", even if it pays well . :thumbsup:
 
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#43
Al Kraft said:
I've played with some sound techs in big clubs where their primary goal for the FOH bass was to set off the maximum number of car alarms in the parking lot. I always have a tone in my head that helps me play my best and I always try to set up to hear that for myself. However, I would tend to agree that most of the audience doesn't come with a predetermined sound for my bass and are generally happy with right notes, tasteful riffs, and a solid groove.

OBTW, I usually only play those "foghorn biased" clubs once - I haven't spent over 40 years learning my instrument and working on my sound to simply be a "live noise generator", even if it pays well . :thumbsup:
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"Clubs."

"Parking lot."

Does not compute.
 
#44
Korladis said:
"Clubs."

"Parking lot."

Does not compute.
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Surely you've driven to a bar/club and before you got out of your car you could hear the bass from the band inside rattling your car windows. Of course I guess in your neck of the woods that could also be mistaken for an earthquake! :)
 
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#46
Heads are colored.
The pre-amps weighted to sound good with controls at noon.
The power amp section of a head is likely to be colored also, as the limiter is usually in the feedback path and made to work with the pre-amp. This can be seen in the few published schematics of even the class-d heads.

Power amps as in FOH/PA are not colored. In the case of FOH power amps, an amp is an amp.
 
#48
Korladis said:
In my neck of the woods, clubs generally don't have parking lots.
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When I lived in the city we had a weekly residency at a place in North Beach. One night I literally lost my truck - it took me 45 min to find a parking spot somewhere up the hill, and when I went to collect the truck at the end of the night to load out, damned if I could find it. Actually called the SFPD to see if it had been towed. Finally found it a few blocks from where I swear I parked it. This was before google maps, and no, alcohol/drugs was not involved.
 
#49
nostatic said:
When I lived in the city we had a weekly residency at a place in North Beach. One night I literally lost my truck - it took me 45 min to find a parking spot somewhere up the hill, and when I went to collect the truck at the end of the night to load out, damned if I could find it. Actually called the SFPD to see if it had been towed. Finally found it a few blocks from where I swear I parked it. This was before google maps, and no, alcohol/drugs was not involved.
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I've done that before, when I was going to a show at the Regency. Since I was the DD, it was the same as your case, no chemical impairment. Just had parked a lot further away than I thought I had (uphill, wouldn't you know it), and was a lot more tired than I had thought I was.
 
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#52
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I don't really think the features of Bass Block 800 would qualify as "transparent": Admittedly, the damping factor is intentionally "subpar" (for "HiFi" performance) and there is audible and designed-in limiting taking place in the power section. You can study their patent, and the Bass Block is basically a former Block series amplifier modified to work more satisfactorily with basses.

In other words, these amps do not intentionally colour the sound as much as, say, Block 200 - simply because excessive coloration (whether it is distortion, compression of dynamics, or just deviations in "flat" frequency response) doesn't just work that well with bass (told you) - but nevertheless, they admit it introduces some coloration in order to sound "warm" instead of "sterile". If THAT is not lack of transparency then I don't know what is...

On the other hand, I'm not surprised that people hear what they want to hear. Like hearing a non-transparent amplifier being transparent.
 
#53
There should be no difference from one solid state power section to another in terms of tone, just volume/headroom.
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Please do back up this claim with some references.

I would particularly like to see you explain how solid-state power amps like
TubeWorks MosValve series
Rocktron Velocity series
Fender 2150 / amps with "CIP"
Peavey amps /w "T-Dynamics"
Sunn Coliseum 300 / SL series amps
Dynacord ORT / OAB / GS824
Quilter Tone Block / Bass Block
Trace Elliot Road series / "Polarbear"
GMT/Gallien-Krueger "Transformer Coupled" / "Current Limiter" series
Yamaha G100
Kustom MosLead
etc.
Have no difference from one another in terms of tone. Especially i would like to see you make some valid points why tone of these amps does not differ from rest of generic PA / HiFi solid-state amplifiers.

Waiting for your answer....

...or you could just admit your comment did not have basis to reality, and that you really don't know so much about the topic to be in a position to make unsubstantiated claims.
 
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#56
Many good answers here, better than I can give, but some of those are not hitting what I see as what the OP is looking for.

Both Carvin BX500 and 700 are rated at +/- 1db 20 to 20KHz in the amp section.

It's been reported that the graphic eq lives after the fx loop. This is good. It's defeatable from the front or by footswitch. So, if you find the power amp you have is not as flat as a BX, you could still eq it to get closer and not stack preamps. Or just bypass it if you don't need eq. You might need to eq some for the room.

Will you be using the same cab or identical cabs for practice and gig? If not, I fear the quest for flat may be moot. You may or may not be able to eq the difference. Hopefully, you can get close.

I don't know of any other amp with a spec thats published.

Am I understanding your goal? In the end you want a micro that doesn't alter the tone of your existing preamp. Is that with or without changing your current preamp settings?
 
#58
Razman said:
M
Totally agree with you, so subjective tone is. The only way to hear what your bass (and all of it's color-toned strings [steel, nickel, flats, ?] and pickups [single, double-coil, jazz, P, ??] and wood [let's not get started]) sounds like is to run straight into a 31-band EQ, into a power amp, and then into full-range speakers (PA, etc.). Use an audio analyzer to tune the system to the room you are in and then viola', that's what your bass sounds like without any coloration, as determined by purpose-built equipment for this task.

I've not heard many basses that sound good in this manner and thus revert to my particular amp 'color' of preference, which happens to be a Mesa 400 atm. Oh, I like Trace Elliot and GK too. Non-class-D but that's a whole 'nother argument.

For the n'th time I'll quote Tom B: "if it sounds good, it is good."

Raz
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I think this is a valid post. While people may seek a "flat" response from their gear, I bet no one leaves it flat. If yo udon't have some mids in there, you will not be heard. It's like how you sound great in your basement and the take those settings to the gig and no one can hear you. You adjust your EQ (probably add mids) and there you are.

I like my tone via my IEM's. I'd like to have that in my practice/small gig amp. Part of that sound is the preamp in the mixer. Hard to find that in a bass rig. I know there are some who use a preamp into a powered "PA" type of cab. I've tried but it never quite worked for me.

There's probably a reason there are a few dozen bass amp/cab companies out there. People need/want "bass" amps - colored or flat.
 
#60
brianrost said:
In class D micro heads it's mostly true because everybody is using the same two or three available power modules.
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Not true at all, at least IME. There are many many non-ICEpower builds these days. Just for starters: Ampeg, Carvin, Peavey, and Acoustic Image.
 
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