You misunderstand - construction symmetry not cosmetic. Its a huge turnoff for me. It is especially important with two pickup instruments. Lots and lots of Fender jazz basses I see have some neck, pickup, bridge misalignment. There isnt a single example of a Sadowsky I have seen that doesnt have perfect neck, pickup, bridge alignment. IMO this plays a huge part in how an otherwise quality instrument feels.
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Bass Features: Top Ten Personal Turn-Offs
- Thread starter Debased
- Start date
You misunderstand - construction symmetry not cosmetic. Its a huge turnoff for me. It is especially important with two pickup instruments. Lots and lots of Fender jazz basses I see have some neck, pickup, bridge misalignment. There isnt a single example of a Sadowsky I have seen that doesnt have perfect neck, pickup, bridge alignment. IMO this plays a huge part in how an otherwise quality instrument feels.
- Jul 11, 2006
- 433
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- Tech Director, dBm Pro Audio Services, New York
My Top 10:
1) Poor Truss Rod Access- I don't fiddle with the rod, but I do like to have it readily-available for the seasonal shift adjustment.
2) Active Electronics- Just a personal preference. I have never played an active bass that said "buy me", though I once owned a Pre-EB Stingray that was sort of an exception.
3) Overly Thin Neck- Don't like the instability and it just plain hurts my hand. I like the extra meat on the back of the neck for support.
4) Overly Wide Neck- I have short fingers
5) More than 4 Strings- Never had the use for more. I have the Hipshot if I need a low D, and it works just fine. Also see #4 on this.
6) Non-Humbucking Pickups- I just don't like hum. All of my basses are P/J, and the J-pickup is always humbucking.
7) Garish Colors- I don't mind nice solids, metallics, or sunburst (which is my favorite), but greenburst (or ANTHING green for that matter), blueburst, silverburst, anything neon, etc. is totally out of the question. At the other extreme, I like nice woods, but overtly furniture-looking is not my cup o'tea either.
8) Garish Pickguards- White, Black, Gold, Tortoise, Aged White Pearl, and Fender's Parchment, period. No phony mint-green, no mirrors, checkerboard, confederate flags, swirls...YECH!!!
9) Overly-thick finishes- Tone Robbers!
10) Crappy Tuners- Most machines on mid-priced or better basses are decent, but once you've used Hipshot, you just can't go back!
Having said all that, I just like a nice P-Bass with a J-pickup and a good set of flats. Rock & Roll!!!
1) Poor Truss Rod Access- I don't fiddle with the rod, but I do like to have it readily-available for the seasonal shift adjustment.
2) Active Electronics- Just a personal preference. I have never played an active bass that said "buy me", though I once owned a Pre-EB Stingray that was sort of an exception.
3) Overly Thin Neck- Don't like the instability and it just plain hurts my hand. I like the extra meat on the back of the neck for support.
4) Overly Wide Neck- I have short fingers
5) More than 4 Strings- Never had the use for more. I have the Hipshot if I need a low D, and it works just fine. Also see #4 on this.
6) Non-Humbucking Pickups- I just don't like hum. All of my basses are P/J, and the J-pickup is always humbucking.
7) Garish Colors- I don't mind nice solids, metallics, or sunburst (which is my favorite), but greenburst (or ANTHING green for that matter), blueburst, silverburst, anything neon, etc. is totally out of the question. At the other extreme, I like nice woods, but overtly furniture-looking is not my cup o'tea either.
8) Garish Pickguards- White, Black, Gold, Tortoise, Aged White Pearl, and Fender's Parchment, period. No phony mint-green, no mirrors, checkerboard, confederate flags, swirls...YECH!!!
9) Overly-thick finishes- Tone Robbers!
10) Crappy Tuners- Most machines on mid-priced or better basses are decent, but once you've used Hipshot, you just can't go back!
Having said all that, I just like a nice P-Bass with a J-pickup and a good set of flats. Rock & Roll!!!
1) Heavy Basses. Can't stand them. My Aslin Dane weighs a ton and I don't like it at all, only reason I keep it is because the Dimarzios I put in it gave it a lush tone.
2) Poorly placed Truss Rods. A bass I played last week had a hole in the body which a plastic "cap" in it which cut my finger when I tried to slap.
3) Small bodied basses. Doesn't give me enough hand room.
4) Pickups which don't have covers or a sleek design so it doesn't build up grime or nick your finger.
5) Mis-matched wood. Sometimes it looks good, most the times it doesn't. It's quite disgusting.
6) Active Electronics. Passive has a certain simplicity which allows me to add and change things more easily. Also, batteries get me down.
7) Thick Necks. Just doesn't feel right to me.
8) Wide Necks. I like easy access.
9) Bridges which don't have an easy method of change. My AXL Tiger Pro (God I love it, for the price it's diamond), has a really awkward bridge. You have to take all your strings off, undo an Allen bolt, Slide it forward/back, redo the Allen bolt and then string up again. It's a nightmare.
10) "Fancy" fret inlays. A simple Block or Dot will do. No reason to create some elaborate swirl or shape in a pearl esque inlay. :/
2) Poorly placed Truss Rods. A bass I played last week had a hole in the body which a plastic "cap" in it which cut my finger when I tried to slap.
3) Small bodied basses. Doesn't give me enough hand room.
4) Pickups which don't have covers or a sleek design so it doesn't build up grime or nick your finger.
5) Mis-matched wood. Sometimes it looks good, most the times it doesn't. It's quite disgusting.
6) Active Electronics. Passive has a certain simplicity which allows me to add and change things more easily. Also, batteries get me down.
7) Thick Necks. Just doesn't feel right to me.
8) Wide Necks. I like easy access.
9) Bridges which don't have an easy method of change. My AXL Tiger Pro (God I love it, for the price it's diamond), has a really awkward bridge. You have to take all your strings off, undo an Allen bolt, Slide it forward/back, redo the Allen bolt and then string up again. It's a nightmare.
10) "Fancy" fret inlays. A simple Block or Dot will do. No reason to create some elaborate swirl or shape in a pearl esque inlay. :/
1.)Neon or bright colors - I just dislike bright colors.
2.)Asymetrical shape - I like the body and headstock to be symetrical.
3.)Too heavy - My current bass makes my shoulder go numb after a few hours
, the next one will be lighter.
4.)Single pickup - Doesn't allow enought flexibility in tone.
5.)Too few controls(volume, tone) - Same as above.
6.)Active electronics - I just don't like them.
7.)Not enough frets - I don't go extremely high on the fretboard very often, but I want to be able to should the need arise.
8.)Too deep of a tone - I can always make the tone deeper with pedals and my amp, but it's hard to make a deep bass brighter.
9.)Neck dive - I prefer that my bass stay put if I happen to let go of it.
10.)Controls too far away from plucking hand - Sometimes you need to make tone/volume adjustments on the fly(without missing a beat).
2.)Asymetrical shape - I like the body and headstock to be symetrical.
3.)Too heavy - My current bass makes my shoulder go numb after a few hours
, the next one will be lighter. 4.)Single pickup - Doesn't allow enought flexibility in tone.
5.)Too few controls(volume, tone) - Same as above.
6.)Active electronics - I just don't like them.
7.)Not enough frets - I don't go extremely high on the fretboard very often, but I want to be able to should the need arise.
8.)Too deep of a tone - I can always make the tone deeper with pedals and my amp, but it's hard to make a deep bass brighter.
9.)Neck dive - I prefer that my bass stay put if I happen to let go of it.
10.)Controls too far away from plucking hand - Sometimes you need to make tone/volume adjustments on the fly(without missing a beat).
Another unusual complaint.
What is it about this wood that makes it such a turn off for you (I assume you're referring to pau ferro fingerboards)? Feel? Appearance? Tone? Stability issues? I've owned two basses with pau ferro boards; love the fretted (pre-Gib Tobias); didn't care for the fretless (early EB MM Stingray V).
True. I know that ERB players have at times been subject to some disrespectful remarks, and that sucks. However I defy anyone to find an example of that in this actual thread! Complaining about general stuff not related to this thread is a waste.
Can you give an example. I've never seen this.
In many vintage Fender basses, you could only access the truss rod by unbolting the neck. I've been told even some of the early Fender Geddy Lee basses required that. Nowadays, truss rod access is much easier on basses. Music Man basses have that nifty flywheel thing.
In any case, reading these lists I'm amazed at how if each of us could design our perfect bass, we'd probably all have very different basses.
And I like to think that most of us have been playing long enough to have carefully formed opinions on what we want in a bass. I've played 4, 5, and 6 string basses, passive and active, for years. I know what I like and I like what I like. And go figure, I play a Warwick. My top 10 would probably have someone advise me against Warwick. But I love my Warwick. Best bass I've ever owned and the best Warwick I've ever played.
I'm trying to resist the urge to restate things I've already said a couple times over in this thread. I'm pretty redundant sometimes.
Anyway,
Let me modify my stance on this whole thing one more time, based on some compelling counter arguments. I think it's pretty poor etiquette for anybody to single out anyone else's specific gear and say, "hey you, that's hideous and stupid." Obviously, I don't think that's acceptable behavior. But I don't think it's wrong for somebody to look at your specific bass and say, "I'm not a fan of these specific design elements that your bass happens to incorporate." I understand the argument about custom basses, and how they are a reflection of their designer/builder/owner/etc. For that reason, I don't think it's right for anyone to single out anyone's specific gear and say that it sucks. I understand why that registers as a personal insult for some people.
HOWEVER, I think the following should be kept in mind: pretty much all bass guitar design, no matter how innovative, can be broken down into a number of generic basic elements: string count, fret count, headstock size/type, body size/type, construction methods, finish, pickup configuration, etc. And I think it's important to realize that there are divergent opinions on all of those basic elements. Person A might like short upper horns on their basses, and person B might prioritize nothing higher than a well balanced instrument. I don't think that means they should be offended when they inevitably disagree on instrument design. That's why they make instruments in a variety of styles, to suit differing priorities and preferences. I do not own a custom built instrument (though I have been seriously thinking about building a sort of anachronistic fender TB styled bass lately) but I think honestly, if i did, though I would take pride in it, I wouldn't be offended when people disliked it. I accept that my tastes are mine and mine alone. So if I hated your bass and you hated mine, I don't think that means we have any reason to fight. We're just different people who have different priorities, tastes and preferences.
Anyway,
Let me modify my stance on this whole thing one more time, based on some compelling counter arguments. I think it's pretty poor etiquette for anybody to single out anyone else's specific gear and say, "hey you, that's hideous and stupid." Obviously, I don't think that's acceptable behavior. But I don't think it's wrong for somebody to look at your specific bass and say, "I'm not a fan of these specific design elements that your bass happens to incorporate." I understand the argument about custom basses, and how they are a reflection of their designer/builder/owner/etc. For that reason, I don't think it's right for anyone to single out anyone's specific gear and say that it sucks. I understand why that registers as a personal insult for some people.
HOWEVER, I think the following should be kept in mind: pretty much all bass guitar design, no matter how innovative, can be broken down into a number of generic basic elements: string count, fret count, headstock size/type, body size/type, construction methods, finish, pickup configuration, etc. And I think it's important to realize that there are divergent opinions on all of those basic elements. Person A might like short upper horns on their basses, and person B might prioritize nothing higher than a well balanced instrument. I don't think that means they should be offended when they inevitably disagree on instrument design. That's why they make instruments in a variety of styles, to suit differing priorities and preferences. I do not own a custom built instrument (though I have been seriously thinking about building a sort of anachronistic fender TB styled bass lately) but I think honestly, if i did, though I would take pride in it, I wouldn't be offended when people disliked it. I accept that my tastes are mine and mine alone. So if I hated your bass and you hated mine, I don't think that means we have any reason to fight. We're just different people who have different priorities, tastes and preferences.
Some of the differences here are surely personal taste. Some is personality, some is budget, some I think is age. There are some people here whose tastes are stable, they find the best fit with their budget, and they like it forever. Others here find a new bass of their (new) dreams about monthly, and stir their collection like a mad day-trader.
A good many of the general bitches here (certainly not all, maybe not even most) are "features" reflecting manufacturing cost constraints. Paint may be cheaper than attractive blocks of wood, certainly cheaper than laminating on a nice top. Even the notorious inaccessible truss rod was originally done that way for cost reasons. For a price, anyone here can find a bass lacking any of their gripes. Basses lacking the most common gripes tend to cost more. No surprise.
And we can all be happy that there's enough variety out there so we can pretty easily find a bass we like. Although why other people have tastes so inferior to mine (read: different), I'll never understand.
A good many of the general bitches here (certainly not all, maybe not even most) are "features" reflecting manufacturing cost constraints. Paint may be cheaper than attractive blocks of wood, certainly cheaper than laminating on a nice top. Even the notorious inaccessible truss rod was originally done that way for cost reasons. For a price, anyone here can find a bass lacking any of their gripes. Basses lacking the most common gripes tend to cost more. No surprise.
And we can all be happy that there's enough variety out there so we can pretty easily find a bass we like. Although why other people have tastes so inferior to mine (read: different), I'll never understand.
In no particular order:
- way too fat/large necks
- way too thin/small necks
- singlecut bass. They're just awfull !!
- more than 6 strings. I don't play 6 strings basses, only 4 or 5ers, but I can still put a 6 string-bass in the "Bass" category. But a 7, 9 or 11 stringged instrument is just a "weird thing"
- pickup in the traditionnal MM position: why the hell did they put a pickup exactly where my right hand strockes when I play with a pick ??
- old-school fender-type bridges
- more than 3-band EQ, adjustable mids, phase inverters, nuclear plant style electronics: back off ! If I can't dial a sound I like whithin 10 seconds of tweaking the knobs, it's not for me.
- ultra-exotic rare woods, fancy luthier designs, extreme "metal" designs ... no way ...
- opaque colors: I like to see the wood grain.
- of course crappy finishes, parts, wood, and tone
The rest is negociable, but I tends to stick to a Fender-inspired design, with a few improvements (2-bands active electronics, straplocks) and a natural or sunburst finish.
- way too fat/large necks
- way too thin/small necks
- singlecut bass. They're just awfull !!
- more than 6 strings. I don't play 6 strings basses, only 4 or 5ers, but I can still put a 6 string-bass in the "Bass" category. But a 7, 9 or 11 stringged instrument is just a "weird thing"
- pickup in the traditionnal MM position: why the hell did they put a pickup exactly where my right hand strockes when I play with a pick ??
- old-school fender-type bridges
- more than 3-band EQ, adjustable mids, phase inverters, nuclear plant style electronics: back off ! If I can't dial a sound I like whithin 10 seconds of tweaking the knobs, it's not for me.
- ultra-exotic rare woods, fancy luthier designs, extreme "metal" designs ... no way ...
- opaque colors: I like to see the wood grain.
- of course crappy finishes, parts, wood, and tone
The rest is negociable, but I tends to stick to a Fender-inspired design, with a few improvements (2-bands active electronics, straplocks) and a natural or sunburst finish.
Seems to me that most of them are -- but I haven't counted.
Hey, some of us prefer paint to blingy wood! (Or blingy paint: see my avatar)
I agree, variety's a great thing. My biggest problem with TalkBass (and society in general) is snobbery/intolerance: "sophisticated musicians (like me) will all have the same opinion!" There are the snobs, and then the counter-snobs (playa haters). Everyone needs to relax and worry about his own gear, not what the other guy is playing. Sorry for the mini-rant...
+1 on hating poor truss rod access. It drives me crazy when you have to de-tune one rod more strings just to get at the screw to remove the truss rod cover!
Other than cheap junky basses, I'm pretty open minded when it comes to basses. Bassists themselves are the real problem. Here's my Top 10.
1. Bassists with bad hand tone. - Tone comes from your hands, not your bass. We all know when we hear good tone. If you don't have it, then it's your fault. Don't buy a new bass to try and fix it, take a few lessons and tighten it up. You can do it!
2. Bassists who think that their bass is the best. - It's not and mine isn't either. In truth, the best bass in the world doesn't exist.
3. Bassists with active electronics that turn everything on full. - Set everything flat and make minor adjustments. Your tone, or lack of it, comes from your hands. EQ is there to fix problems not create them.
4. Bassists with passive electronics who say that active basses are lame, but they themselves over EQ their amp. - Come on guys. What gives? The smiley/frown face EQ is not working. Set everything flat and make minor adjustments. An EQ, whether on a bass or an amp, is there to correct issues, not create them.
5. Bassist who refuse play a certain bass because of the way it looks, the finish, number of strings, neck through, bolt on, set neck, scale length, active, passive, pickguard or the biggest gag-fest ever (drumroll) maple vs. rosewood. (i.e. "Oh, that bass has a bolt-on neck, a maple fingerboard, 5 strings, wide spacing, 5 knobs and a toggle. Did you hear me? A friggin toggle!!! It has everything I don't like in a bass, so I hate it already!!!) That bass may blow you away, but you'll never know because you judge it by things that don't matter. There are so many great basses out there. Don't limit yourself. The only person you are hurting is yourself and the possibility of finding a new funky friend.
6. Bassists who use slap technique on anything and everything. - It's good to know how, but use it as a cool side flavor, don't marinade in it. It's ballad for the love of God! It's annoying! Stop it!
7. Bassists who overplay. - Yes, we all get it. You have some decent chops. So do a bunch of other guys, but you'd never know it. Be tasteful and groove hard. You'll get your time to shine. Save it for those 12 bars and kill 'em!
8. Bassists who don't change their strings. - You don't have to change them every show, but old string don't cut through the mix and they don't intonate properly. Once every few months is not too much to ask. No money? Lay off the Starbucks a couple times a month and find the money.
9. Bassist who don't care for their instruments. I see so many guys with basses that look like they need rescuing from an abusive parent. If your going to play your bass, play it. If you need to knock over mic stands, hit cymbals, throw things at and just plain maim the instrument, I can offer help. I know a good anger management guy that can give you some constructive ways to deal with your abusive behavior.
10. Bassists who refuse to learn about music. - How can you call yourself a musician when you don't even know the basics of music. I implore you to, at least, gain a basic knowledge of music theory. Key centers, chords and harmony are things we bassist deal with every time we pick up the bass. You can either continue to float in oblivion or apply yourself and make thing easier for everyone. Shorter practices, less time in the expensive studio and the ability to properly communicate with other musicians are not a bad things. Get past your macho, "I don't know how to read music and I'm proud!" attitude. Nobody wants to work with someone like that.
1. Bassists with bad hand tone. - Tone comes from your hands, not your bass. We all know when we hear good tone. If you don't have it, then it's your fault. Don't buy a new bass to try and fix it, take a few lessons and tighten it up. You can do it!
2. Bassists who think that their bass is the best. - It's not and mine isn't either. In truth, the best bass in the world doesn't exist.
3. Bassists with active electronics that turn everything on full. - Set everything flat and make minor adjustments. Your tone, or lack of it, comes from your hands. EQ is there to fix problems not create them.
4. Bassists with passive electronics who say that active basses are lame, but they themselves over EQ their amp. - Come on guys. What gives? The smiley/frown face EQ is not working. Set everything flat and make minor adjustments. An EQ, whether on a bass or an amp, is there to correct issues, not create them.
5. Bassist who refuse play a certain bass because of the way it looks, the finish, number of strings, neck through, bolt on, set neck, scale length, active, passive, pickguard or the biggest gag-fest ever (drumroll) maple vs. rosewood. (i.e. "Oh, that bass has a bolt-on neck, a maple fingerboard, 5 strings, wide spacing, 5 knobs and a toggle. Did you hear me? A friggin toggle!!! It has everything I don't like in a bass, so I hate it already!!!) That bass may blow you away, but you'll never know because you judge it by things that don't matter. There are so many great basses out there. Don't limit yourself. The only person you are hurting is yourself and the possibility of finding a new funky friend.
6. Bassists who use slap technique on anything and everything. - It's good to know how, but use it as a cool side flavor, don't marinade in it. It's ballad for the love of God! It's annoying! Stop it!
7. Bassists who overplay. - Yes, we all get it. You have some decent chops. So do a bunch of other guys, but you'd never know it. Be tasteful and groove hard. You'll get your time to shine. Save it for those 12 bars and kill 'em!
8. Bassists who don't change their strings. - You don't have to change them every show, but old string don't cut through the mix and they don't intonate properly. Once every few months is not too much to ask. No money? Lay off the Starbucks a couple times a month and find the money.
9. Bassist who don't care for their instruments. I see so many guys with basses that look like they need rescuing from an abusive parent. If your going to play your bass, play it. If you need to knock over mic stands, hit cymbals, throw things at and just plain maim the instrument, I can offer help. I know a good anger management guy that can give you some constructive ways to deal with your abusive behavior.
10. Bassists who refuse to learn about music. - How can you call yourself a musician when you don't even know the basics of music. I implore you to, at least, gain a basic knowledge of music theory. Key centers, chords and harmony are things we bassist deal with every time we pick up the bass. You can either continue to float in oblivion or apply yourself and make thing easier for everyone. Shorter practices, less time in the expensive studio and the ability to properly communicate with other musicians are not a bad things. Get past your macho, "I don't know how to read music and I'm proud!" attitude. Nobody wants to work with someone like that.
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