Bass scales

[JPK_DK]

For pure reference, there is also this:

https://www.amazon.com/Scale-Omnibus-instrumentalists-vocalists-improvisers/dp/B0B45JJTMQ

 

[JPK_DK]

C or Cmaj7, Dm or Dm7, Em or Em7, F or Fmaj7, G or G7 (dom7), Am or Am7, Bdim or Bdim7.

Just to avoid confusion: it should be "Bdim or Bø7 (B half-diminished 7)". The fully diminished chord has a bb7, which is not a diatonic chord in the major scale.

 

[BobDeRosa]

Anybody know of a comprehensive (and I mean comprehensive book all about scales for bass guitar. Not the actual scales, but specifically on how to use them?

Having difficulty getting my head around all the different scales and how to apply them to creating bass lines
Questions like:
1. Can you jump from one mode to another i.e. dorian to myxolidian (I know I have spelt that wrong), and use them all over the fretboard? or only particular modes will go with another mode etc
2. All about major / minor e.g. seems to be major dorian and minor dorian (am I right?) and how these relate?

Started practising to drum loops, and not really using modes just whatever sounds good. Sure the lines I come up with are influenced by modes I am familiar with.

Does the average bass player use the modes (I dont mean professionals), or just whatever sounds good?

Be really interested to know?

Remember that a major scale and all its modes are made of the same seven notes. Don't think about playing scales or modes. Think about playing interesting melodies using those seven notes.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Anybody know of a comprehensive (and I mean comprehensive book all about scales for bass guitar. Not the actual scales, but specifically on how to use them?

Having difficulty getting my head around all the different scales and how to apply them to creating bass lines
Questions like:
1. Can you jump from one mode to another i.e. dorian to myxolidian (I know I have spelt that wrong), and use them all over the fretboard? or only particular modes will go with another mode etc
2. All about major / minor e.g. seems to be major dorian and minor dorian (am I right?) and how these relate?

Started practising to drum loops, and not really using modes just whatever sounds good. Sure the lines I come up with are influenced by modes I am familiar with.

Does the average bass player use the modes (I dont mean professionals), or just whatever sounds good?

Be really interested to know?

Answer to 1: Yes.

Answer to 2: No clue. It's been of 50 years since my last theory class. I'm, pretty good a remembering the notes, names not so much.. LOL!!

Suggestion: write out some common chord changes, then with a pocket recorder, record yourself moving from chord change to chord change making it as logical as possible in as many combinations as you can come up with. The listen to review the recording. Eliminate the ones that don't work.

Best wishes.

 

[bass12]

It sounds as if you would benefit from an introductory theory book such as this one:

[This invalid link has been removed]

Then get yourself the iReal Pro app.

 

[mambo4]

"how you use scales" is to support harmony, as bassist.
Therefore, learning harmony before modes is the best approach.

 

[themickster]

Anybody know of a comprehensive (and I mean comprehensive book all about scales for bass guitar. Not the actual scales, but specifically on how to use them?

Having difficulty getting my head around all the different scales and how to apply them to creating bass lines
Questions like:
1. Can you jump from one mode to another i.e. dorian to myxolidian (I know I have spelt that wrong), and use them all over the fretboard? or only particular modes will go with another mode etc
2. All about major / minor e.g. seems to be major dorian and minor dorian (am I right?) and how these relate?

Started practising to drum loops, and not really using modes just whatever sounds good. Sure the lines I come up with are influenced by modes I am familiar with.

Does the average bass player use the modes (I dont mean professionals), or just whatever sounds good?

Be really interested to know?

A songwriter I know switches mode in the middle of a verse without knowing that's what he's doing. He's one of my band's guitarists. He wrote a song for us, unaware that he'd written the verse in G dorian and the chorus in Bb lydian, until I told him.

We're a punk band. Another singer songwriter guitarist told me that punk mustn't have modes. Every song I've written since then has a mode. One has a middle 8 in E locrian.

I at last understood modes in the spring and found new chord riffs for my writing and new basslines. It's been an odd blessing. The guitarist I had at the time of learning about modes was so against learning a phrygian scale and playing it in the right key that he left the band. It's a blessing, since he's well-known in town, on FB and Instagram for playing at the wrong speed and in the wrong key.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Remember that a major scale and all its modes are made of the same seven notes. Don't think about playing scales or modes. Think about playing interesting melodies using those seven notes.

I’ll echo this and also add that there is no such thing as a ‘bass scale’. Ideally, you want to learn all the fundamental, rudimentary stuff like scales, chords and how they relate, than forget it completely and play music with complete freedom. It’s like typing or talking. You don’t really think about it, it just comes out

 

[CTW68]

This is the most complete scale manual there is.

 

[mr80htz]

Anybody know of a comprehensive (and I mean comprehensive book all about scales for bass guitar. Not the actual scales, but specifically on how to use them?

Having difficulty getting my head around all the different scales and how to apply them to creating bass lines
Questions like:
1. Can you jump from one mode to another i.e. dorian to myxolidian (I know I have spelt that wrong), and use them all over the fretboard? or only particular modes will go with another mode etc
2. All about major / minor e.g. seems to be major dorian and minor dorian (am I right?) and how these relate?

Started practising to drum loops, and not really using modes just whatever sounds good. Sure the lines I come up with are influenced by modes I am familiar with.

Does the average bass player use the modes (I dont mean professionals), or just whatever sounds good?

Be really interested to know?

Modes are simply about flavors of notes you want to highlight. Usually (not always) centered around root, third, and fifth notes of the mode (a triad). Ionian mode (classic major scale) in C maj is C E G. Aeolian (classic minor scale) in C maj is A C E. You play those three notes over a C maj. Chord and it's a different vibe even though they are the same notes in the C maj. scale. The dorian triad in C maj is D F A. Those three notes are also in C maj but give a different vibe.
Honestly, when I'm thrown a solo...which happens 5 or so times over a 3 set gig I just want to know:
A) the key...kind of important...or if the chords I'm soloing over has the key change.
B) what's the relative major and minor scales in the key (if the song is in D maj. That would be the D maj scale and B minor scale)
C) play around in E Dorian for a a moment just to highlight the different 1 3 5 tones in the scale. If I'm comfortable with the song and I've soloed over it a bunch I'll throw in a different mode, like Locrian.

I practice scales over chord changes at home and it has mixed results. From my understanding, most top players move seamlessly through different scales over chord changes during a solo. Different chords have all sorts of different scales to choose from. Hard stuff to do unless you have practices the crap out of scales.

It's tough to do this at first and sound authentic as thinking too much in the moment doesn't sell your solo as being emotive. As Jaco once told Peter Erskine at his drummer audition for Weather Report ..."Don't think so much. Just concentrate." Concentration means listening and it's hard to listen when your thinking about what you are playing.
Hope that helps

 

[HolmeBass]

If it sounds good, it is not a "mistake". Music theory did not arrive on one of the tablets from Mount Sinai as a set of divine rules that must be followed in order for music to be "correct". Theory is a way of organizing things to explain what usually sounds good - it comes to us from the experience of musicians over the ages, who figured it out by ear, not the other way around.

This is so important and misunderstood it should be a sticky.

There are a number of adages that try to pass this info on in a quip:

- If it sounds good, it is good
- There is no wrong way to play something beautiful

 

[BarfanyShart]

Watch out, bass have scales on their backs that can cut you pretty good if you're not careful.

 

[Dang75]

A songwriter I know switches mode in the middle of a verse without knowing that's what he's doing. He's one of my band's guitarists. He wrote a song for us, unaware that he'd written the verse in G dorian and the chorus in Bb lydian, until I told him.

Did he know that both are in the key of F major (D minor) and share the same 7 notes?

 

[dreamadream99]

if you want to get beyond trial and error, you have to learn the rules behind how music is written — commonly called music theory. Not the whole two-year college course, but enough to know about keys, scales, and chords—in that order.

 

[Wasnex]

I think you need to start with grasping the idea of a key center and playing diatonically. Diatonic means the notes belong to the key center.

Let's use an easy key, C Major.
Here are the notes: C,D,E,F,G,A,B

If you start on C you play the C major scale: C,D,E,F,G,A,B...This is the same notes as Ionian mode.
If start on D you play Dorian mode: D,E,F,G,A,B,C
If you start on E you play Phrygian mode: E,F,G,A,B,C,D
If you start on F you play Lydian mode: F,G,A,B,C,D,E
If you start on G you play Mixolydian mode: G,A,B,C,D,E,F
If you start on A you play Aeolian mode: A,B,C,D,E,F,G...which is the same shape as A natural minor
If you start on B you play Locrian mode: B,C,D,E,F,G,A

All of the notes in all of these modes are diatonic to C major.

A minor is the relative minor to C major, which means it shares the same notes and key signature as C major.

Minor comes in three forms: 1. Natural, 2. Harmonic, 3. Melodic.

A natural minor has the same notes as C major: A,B,C,D,E,F,G
In Harmonic minor the 7th scale degree is raised a half step: A,B,C,D,E,F,G#
In Melodic minor the 6th and 7th are raised a half step: A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#

The classical form of the Melodic scales raises the 6th and 7th ascending, but not when descending:
Going up: A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#
Going down: G,F,E,D,C,B,A

The jazz form does not lower the notes when descending
Going up: A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#
Going down: G#,F#,E,D,C,B,A

We consider F,F#,G,G# diatonic to A minor. However, F# and G# are not diatonic to the relative major, C Major.

You can also derive modes from the harmonic and jazz melodic minor scales...but you are not ready for that. It's something I never really mastered and memorized.

The first step is to learn how to define the intervals 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 as minor, major, perfect, augmented, and diminished. These are defined by the number of half steps and whole step between two notes.

After that you learn how to build the major and minor scales and start learning your key signatures.

Here are the shapes:

Major
1. perfect
2. major
3. major
4. perfect
5. perfect
6. major
7. major

Natural Minor
1. perfect
2. major
3. minor
4. perfect
5. perfect
6. minor
7. minor

Harmonic Minor
1. perfect
2. major
3. minor
4. perfect
5. perfect
6. minor
7. major

Jazz Melodic Minor
1. perfect
2. major
3. minor
4. perfect
5. perfect
6. major
7. major

After you learn the keys and how to play diatonically, you can start learning to break the rules.

 

[MuseChaser]

A songwriter I know switches mode in the middle of a verse without knowing that's what he's doing. He's one of my band's guitarists. He wrote a song for us, unaware that he'd written the verse in G dorian and the chorus in Bb lydian, until I told him.

....

G dorian and Bb lydian are based on the second and fourth notes of the F major scale respectively, which has a Bb as its key signature...

F major:
F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F
G dorian:
G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F, G
Bb lydian:
Bb, C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb

They're all the same set of notes... Just different in where you "park." Dorian scales are used frequently when singing and improvising over minor scales because the clash between the fifth and the flat 6th from a natural minor (aeolian in mode-speak, based upon the 6th note of the relative major) scale is removed; in a dorian scale, the sixth is a whole step above the fifth, and every note of the scale sounds good against a chord formed by the root, third, fifth, and seventh of scale (a minor 7th chord).

Likewise, lydian scales are frequently used over major chords for the same reasoning, only this time it's the 4th that's raised, removing the clash between the 3rd and 4th. Every note of the lydian scale sounds good against a major 7th chord.

The song you alluded to probably just shifts emphasis from Gm to it's relative major, Bb, and the melody notes remain derived from the same seven notes... Or fewer.

 

[themickster]

Did he know that both are in the key of F major (D minor) and share the same 7 notes?

I don't reckon he did. He writes good, complex chords with little thought of right theory. He goes with what sounds good. It works.

 

[themickster]

Just to avoid confusion: it should be "Bdim or Bø7 (B half-diminished 7)". The fully diminished chord has a bb7, which is not a diatonic chord in the major scale.

What would you call a chord with B, D, F and A? I've heard called B half-diminished and B diminished 7. The Royal College of Music didn't lower themselves to answering me.

 

[MuseChaser]

What would you call a chord with B, D, F and A? I've heard called B half-diminished and B diminished 7. The Royal College of Music didn't lower themselves to answering me.

B, D, F, A is a half-diminished chord, sometimes also called a "minor 7 flat 5" chord in jazz parlance.
A B diminished 7th chord, sometimes referred to as "full-diminished" for clarity's sake (but unnecessarily) would be B, D, F, Ab. The F represents the "diminished" or flatted fifth present in both chords, while the A of a half-diminished chord is the flat seventh (A# from the B major scale, lowered a half step to A). That seventh is lowered an additional half step, becoming the "diminished 7th" Ab in the diminished ("full-diminished") Bdim7 chord.

 

[JPK_DK]

What would you call a chord with B, D, F and A?

What @MuseChaser said

I can see how it is confusing that the triad chord B-D-F is a diminished chord, while the seventh chord B-D-F-A is a half-diminished chord. But, it's all about the intervallic relations between those stacked thirds.