Bass scales

[themickster]

What @MuseChaser said

I can see how it is confusing that the triad chord B-D-F is a diminished chord, while the seventh chord B-D-F-A is a half-diminished chord. But, it's all about the intervallic relations between those stacked thirds.

I start one of my middle 8s with B half-diminished, since it can be played as an open chord. The 7th makes it less of a discord. Why do it with a dim of any kind? I felt like it; locrian was the only mode I hadn't written in.

 

[Whale guy]

-learn the scales
-play what comes from your heart and throw in bits of the modes to add spice
-make your own rules

 

[BismarckHerring]

Not specifically bass related, but the youtube channel David Bennett Piano has a lot of good videos about modes with many examples of how each of them sounds and what songs use them.

 

[Carl Hillman]

It sounds like what you want to learn is chord/scale relationships.

Get a basic jazz theory text and dive in. I learned from this one, but there are plenty of other fine texts out there.
https://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Language-Theory-Composition-Improvisation/dp/B00UZ5BCZC

Don't be put off by "Jazz" being in the title of these books. That just means that they cover harmony and chords since the mid-20th century, regardless of genre.

 

[elkkid2]

Modes are god. Everything in "our" Western Music is based on them. Do you want to harmonise? Learn your modes. Look, there's seven notes to C Magor scale, right? And then the root an octive up. Seven notes. Well, there's a scale for each of those notes, but they don't change out of the original scale...you are just starting that same scale from a diffenrt place. These are sometimes called dis-placed scales. Work them out in the key of C because theres no sharps or flats in that scale. If you hit a flat or sharp, you are hitting a wrong note. The second scale will be a naturally ocurring Minor scale. (Because D to E is a whole step, and E to F is a half step...2, 3, 4. Remember we are working in the Key of C) The 3 rd scale is minor too, because the hale-step between the 3 and the 4 is still in play on the way to the G...3,4,5, and so on and so forth. If I use brackets it might be easier to see: (C,D,E,F,G,A,B, then to C) That's the number one Scale, right? So, let me just use numbers for the same scale: (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) SO, the second scale would be: 1,(2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2), third scale: 1,2(3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3) , so on and so forth. Now, you need to go across the neck of your bass. Remember, id you hit a flatted note or sharp note, it's not in the "C" scale. So, if you want to harmonize, say, a third, you's play the same exact pattern that you've chosen in the "1" scale, on the "3" scale at the same time. ONCE you know your Modes...then you'll know EXACTLY when, (and probably why), you are chossing to add notes that are not in the "C" scale. So, seven notes up the Neck of your bass are like...say a bus stop...each buss stop has it's own scale. Seven notes, seven scales...that's pretty easy, right? You CAN learn seven scales, I promise! (Then practice playing just a 1,3,5,7th notes from each of those scale to get the proper chords...and all will be in the Key of "C". Then, the exact same patterns of the Seven scales will work exactly the same in any postiion/fret you choose. You choose any Key, and those scale patterns will work...those modal patterns are "God" and don't change. Good luck, take a scale or two a week, and you'll know your Modes within two Months, EASY.

 

[shadven]

Thank you, much appreciated

Colin, it really is all about chords. Chords and scales, but chords are the most important ingredient when creating bass lines.

 

[Dang75]

Colin, it really is all about chords. Chords and scales, but chords are the most important ingredient when creating bass lines.

I believe that Carol Kaye has a similar philosophy

 

[climber]

As far as scales, specifically, go, I’ve been told that Dave Holland’s preferred warm-up is to play only 3 scales: major, minor and dominant in all keys working around the circle of 5ths. 2 octaves. It takes about 20 minutes at a modest tempo. He doesn’t feel any other scalar practice is necessary and devotes the rest of his practice time to playing over actual chord changes.

this makes perfect sense to me. Very close to what I do too.

 

[Jogobass]

If it sounds good, it is not a "mistake". Music theory did not arrive on one of the tablets from Mount Sinai as a set of divine rules that must be followed in order for music to be "correct". Theory is a way of organizing things to explain what usually sounds good - it comes to us from the experience of musicians over the ages, who figured it out by ear, not the other way around.

yes, that's why they are happy mistakes, as Bob Ross would say.

 

[retslock]

Aside:
I would like to understand why I like some dissonant notes, while others are just embarrassing.
The former sound like an intentional assertion of attitude, while the latter just sound like mistakes.

Dissonance can be used to create tension or drama in music. Tension and release is how music takes us on a journey. Victor Wooten has talked about this and the deliberate use of so called ‘wrong’ notes that resolve to endow the music with a logical release of tension. Context is everything.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Learn to SING any scales you learn. Amazing ear training. IME it’s the best way to internalise it all and for it to come out easily in any playing context.

Try to sing the note you’re about to play on bass before playing it. After a while you can easily sing what you’re playing. Best foundation for learning soloing later on IME.

 

[BlueTalon]

When I want to use a scale on a bass, I just go to the post office and use theirs.

 

[JimmyM]

Scales are important to learn because they’re the building blocks of chords, and you should know the name of every note on your instrument and be able to find it instantly, and that takes the repetition that scales give you. But I don’t know of any bassists who keep my interest up by running scales. Most of the best ones I know of never let scales even enter their minds because it’s so easy to sound like you’re just running scales.

However, if you find modes a useful tool, you can switch in and out of them at will, even every single beat if that’s what sounds best. Theory doesn’t tell you how to play. It only explains what has been done and helps you recognize and understand what was done. It’s not a prison cell of rules from which there is no escape. It’s a mind opening experience that opens up way more possibilities for creativity, plus it gives you a way of communicating your thoughts to others.

 

[gazzatriumph]

I'm in my 60's and have played in good local bands over the years and still do. I was in an originals band when younger and wrote the bass lines for our songs. I haven’t a clue about scales and the other theory stuff. I wished I had learnt it when I was younger but to me it didn't exist back then, not to the extent of what's been mentioned previously. Theory is good to learn but I wouldn't beat yourself up if you haven’t learnt it as long as you can play, that's the most important thing.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Modes cause quite a bit of confusion. But in a nutshell the underlying harmony forces the mode. In addition there are two ways of thinking about modes. Relative and parallel. Relative modes begin with a different note of the scale, but if the tonal centre is the root of the scale, than you can play any mode and it won't matter as far as getting a 'modal' sound. It will all relate back to the tonal centre by way of the cadence reinforcing the primacy of the tonal centre ie you could play the notes of D Dorian over a harmony that reinforces C major as the tone centre till the cows come home, but you are not playing modally. The harmony dictates. If however the harmony was ambiguous via power chords, or moves back and forth laterally and not in a cadence fashion, or there is a drone note, or just one chord as the harmony, than the mode can be chosen for flavour e.g over a Dm Gmajor ( not the G7. That will evoke C major) you could play D Dorian and the natural 6 of the mode and in the underlying chord of G will make it sound distinct from other minor modes. You could also do Dm to Em for the same effect. Congratz. You are now playing modally. So you wanna have a Rock flavour over some powerchords. Well the harmony is ambiguous with no 3rds and no chord with a tritone that wants to resolve to the tonal centre, so you could use a minor mode again or give Mixolydian a go, which is common in Rock. Or something exotic like E phrygian over Em Dm. Skys the limit.

 

[SteveCS]

...
The Royal College of Music didn't lower themselves to answering me.

I don't think its a question of 'lowering themselves'. You are talking about a top-flight conservatoire that will be 100% focussed on keeping up with the demands of its own students that are already fighting amongst themselves for limited 'teacher time'. They will simply not have the time or resources to offer an Alexa-style public enquiry service.

 

[themickster]

I don't think its a question of 'lowering themselves'. You are talking about a top-flight conservatoire that will be 100% focussed on keeping up with the demands of its own students that are already fighting amongst themselves for limited 'teacher time'. They will simply not have the time or resources to offer an Alexa-style public enquiry service.

You don't know the self-mocking I'm often doing

 

[Tom Kinter]

MODES!
They're fun. They're expressive. It's a valid way to think.
Modes = moods.

Ionian - straight on, positive, right down the middle, the tonal center
Dorian - minor but with major aspirations (that M6,)
Phrygian - minor with EXTRA spiciness (the b9, or leave it out for 2 star heat)
Lydian - major, but with that insolent twist (#11) (you could learn a lot from Lydian, some folks like to start here*)
Mixolydian - so danged dominant, so forward-leaning & with that great tritone built in. Wow, man.
Aeolian - the purest minor, melancholy & the looking glass of Ionian
Locrian - sadder than Aeolian, discordant, still, it brings us back to...
Do!

*see George Russell.

 

[JPK_DK]

Lydian - major, but with that insolent twist (#11) (you could learn a lot from Lydian, some folks like to start here*)
Mixolydian - so danged dominant, so forward-leaning & with that great tritone built in. Wow, man.

Nice descriptions all around, but the tritone belongs to the lydian mode (#11)

 

[MuseChaser]

Nice descriptions all around, but the tritone belongs to the lydian mode (#11)

There's a tritone interval in every mode. @Tom Kinter 's descriptions are a fun way to look at them. The reason the tritone in the mixolydian scale is noteworthy is because the tritone falls between the third and seventh... the two defining notes of a chord.
To expound further.. chords are based, at least in tertiary harmony (meaning based upon stacked thirds instead of "quartal" harmony, based upon fourths), on stacked thirds utilizing the 1st,3rd,5th,7th (and 9th,11th,and 13th,all of which imply the inclusion of the flat 7th) notes of the scale. The "root" of the chord is the first note of the scale. The third of the chord defines whether the chord is major (two whole steps from the root) or minor (a whole step and a half step from the root), and the seventh defines, kind of, whether the chord is a resting/resolution chord (major 7th, five and a half whole steps up from the root) or a leading chord (minor 7th, five while steps up from the root). Yes, I left out discussions of diminished chords just for simplicity... Just sticking to the bare-bones basics for now

When I teach jazz "comping" on piano, the first thing I show students, in terms of chord voicing, is that playing two notes, the third and 7th of the chord, is a completely valid, good sounding, well-voiced and well-defined chord, as the root is implied (and covered by us, the bassists of the world) and the fifth adds little harmonic info or motion. Adding a color tone (9th, 13th, etc.) fills out the voicing wonderfully, then we build into more advanced work from there.

Mixolydian is the ONLY mode that has a tritone between the 3rd and 7th.