Bass through FOH subs only?

[Subersibo]

I play with a band that only puts the bass through the subs so all I hear is rumble, no top end at all. (We play old school r&b and funky songs from the 70’s that have lots of slapped bass parts.)
I had them put me through the main speakers and it sounded better but they seemed to find this strange. They were struggling with the mixer at some shows so they brought in a sound guy to fix the problems at rehearsal. First thing the guy did was to take my bass completely out of the mains and put it through just the subs again. I was planning to just go direct using a preamp/di but I guess I’ll just have to continue bringing my amp and turning it up to get a full-range sound. Otherwise we should play reggae lol.

 

[Jefenator]

… or hire a better sound guy?

 

[Zooberwerx]

. First thing the guy did was to take my bass completely out of the mains and put it through just the subs again. I was planning to just go direct using a preamp/di but I guess I’ll just have to continue bringing my amp and turning it up to get a full-range sound. Otherwise we should play reggae lol.

Did he say why or is he just incompetent? Eh, maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge...maybe he's really good and figured a way to squeeze your entire dynamic range into a 40-106 hz cubby.

Riis

 

[Jazzdogg]

I play with a band that only puts the bass through the subs so all I hear is rumble, no top end at all. (We play old school r&b and funky songs from the 70’s that have lots of slapped bass parts.)
I had them put me through the main speakers and it sounded better but they seemed to find this strange. They were struggling with the mixer at some shows so they brought in a sound guy to fix the problems at rehearsal. First thing the guy did was to take my bass completely out of the mains and put it through just the subs again. I was planning to just go direct using a preamp/di but I guess I’ll just have to continue bringing my amp and turning it up to get a full-range sound. Otherwise we should play reggae lol.

Are you going only through FOH, or do you have an amp, too?

 

[Subersibo]

I bring an amp (hartke LH1000/410 speaker) and go through foh but was planning to go direct using an mxr m81 and leave the amp at home as some of them started using in-ears and I was planning to do so as well. I do that with other groups.
But hearing my bass only thru subs foiled my plans. I’m the new guy in this band and the sound guy is a good friend of theirs.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I bring an amp (hartke LH1000/410 speaker) and go through foh but was planning to go direct using an mxr m81 and leave the amp at home as some of them started using in-ears and I was planning to do so as well. I do that with other groups.
But hearing my bass only thru subs foiled my plans. I’m the new guy in this band and the sound guy is a good friend of theirs.

If you have access to low-pass filter, set it to approximately 100 Hz and you'll be able to hear what your bass sounds like without the frequencies above 100 Hz through your Hartke.

Personally, if a FOH engineer or bandmate suggested that I run my bass only through FOH subs, I would pack my gear and never return

 

[ezstep]

You didn't specify the subs, but most of them produce 250hz on down, some less than 200hz on down. So, yeah, pure mud on a bass.

 

[Wasnex]

It can sound like your signal is only going through the subs, even if it's also properly routed to and balanced in the mains. You really can't judge what it sounds like out in the house from the stage.

Why? At the lowest frequencies, the sound is pretty much omnidirectional unless you have a fairly large sub array. Essentially the lows wrap around the subs and travel in all directions equally.

As the frequency goes higher, the wavelength gets shorter and shorter and the speaker begins to develop pattern control. By the time the frequency has risen into the mids, most of the sound will be shooting forward. So you won't hear the mids and highs coming from the PA unless they hit a reflective surface and bounce back to you.

Here is the dispersion pattern for a 7.1 cubic ft box (TL505) loaded with an 18" speaker.

Notice this chart indicates the TL505 has very little pattern control even at 200hz.

It sounds like they have verbally confirmed that they are only sending your signal to the subs. Hopefully this will give you a vague approximation of the complex range of emotions this gives me:

IMHO the audio tech they asked to consult seems sort of like the blind leading the blind. My guess is he is the person who taught them wrong in the first place.

 

[31HZ]

Ugh.

 

[J Wilson]

I've never heard of a competent, much less really good FOH guy do such a thing. That whoever's involved in this THINKS that's the way to go tells me eveything I need to know.

I was just waiting to hear you say they think they're balancing your sound off your amp into the room with a little extra deep end.

Once again, my BS Meter just pegged.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I’ve seen similar sound man antics when I was using an amp on stage, but the level of the bass in the subs was quiet low, just enough to help support my low end & equalize it with the kick & floor tom, because I wasn’t using a massive amp. I’ve heard my bass through subs only during sound check, and before I got my in-ears going. No way I could play with only subs; I’d need some definition from in-ears, wedges, or an amp. I can’t imagine how weird the overall mix of your band must sound. Probably like playing in the restroom at the bowling alley….

 

[Mike Caldwell]

No reason not to send the bass to the mains tops even if the system is set up with aux fed subs.
They need to start with a clean slate at FOH

 

[JimmyM]

Seriously, this should be against the law. If I was told that a band would only put my bass in the subs, I would threaten to quit. Do they not understand how music works?

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Do they not understand how a sound system works?

I made a slight edit!

 

[FullumMusic]

The only reason I would have run the bass guitar only to the subs when I was a sound engineer, would have been if the bass amp was loud enough to fill the room already and all I wanted to do was gently kiss the subs with the bass to augment the primary sound of the bass amp. This technique requires finesse and forethought. The subs shouldn’t be overpowering the amp, only slightly augmenting it.

Otherwise, your band mates don’t know what they’re doing and I have no idea why a “professional” sound engineer would set up the PA routing is such a poorly thought out way.

Most subs are low-passed at about 80Hz. That’s only the fundamental frequencies of the first octave of the bass. None of the harmonics are coming through the sub (aka: none of what makes up the sonic information and tone of the notes you’re playing). There’s no reason a good mix can’t be achieved with all the instruments and vox through the mains.

Pro tip: do the mix without the sub on. Get the instruments balanced in the mix. Then turn on the sub and slowly bring in the bass and kick to augment the mix.

 

[gln1955]

I’m the new guy in this band and the sound guy is a good friend of theirs.

Ah yes, the good friend who's a "sound guy". They're getting their money's worth of free advice.

 

[eddododo]

I play with a band that only puts the bass through the subs so all I hear is rumble, no top end at all. (We play old school r&b and funky songs from the 70’s that have lots of slapped bass parts.)
I had them put me through the main speakers and it sounded better but they seemed to find this strange. They were struggling with the mixer at some shows so they brought in a sound guy to fix the problems at rehearsal. First thing the guy did was to take my bass completely out of the mains and put it through just the subs again. I was planning to just go direct using a preamp/di but I guess I’ll just have to continue bringing my amp and turning it up to get a full-range sound. Otherwise we should play reggae lol.

Ugh. This is one of those things about playing bass that absolutely sucks.

I don’t know why so many people, including somewhat ‘good’ sound guys, think that bass lives in the subs.

like, no man.. it’s an instrument. Make it sound like an instrument. How would you EQ a piano? Or a Harp?

A guitar amp is *almost* adequate at low and medium volume, and likewise a guitar’s FOH profile is much closer to what you need as opposed to basically a gargantuan ‘yawn’ booming from the subs. Just don’t highpass at ~100hz or whatever, and reign in anything that boooms or oscillates, and you’re like 95% of the way to a perfectly decent sound for any dummy.


The argument in the first place is almost as bad as the sonic crimes being committed. Sure man, I bet you guys

 

[4Mal]

As a sound guy... that is fuggin' nutz... I will do aux fed subs on occaision. The bass and kick are in that aux. I cross at about 100 with that setup. That is an aux mix though and the kick and bass are in the mains AKA the tops as well. I can't imagine running the kick and the bass in just the subs.. That is just ignorant, unskilled and a sound guy needing a change of career or hobby as the case may be...

 

[Ewo]

I'm singing with the choir on this one:

The FOH guy is clueless about mixing. A bass has to have some mids and highs to sound clear, tight, and defined out front. And there's no way subs-only will work for the performer onstage.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

This "sound guy" must be almost unbelievably incompetent. Surely some part of the story must be missing here? I find it hard to believe that anyone who actually knows how to operate a mixer can be THAT clueless about mixing.

You said: "they were struggling with the mixer at some shows so they brought in a sound guy to fix the problems at rehearsal".

Do you play your bass through a PA system in addition to your amp at rehearsals? Is this the same PA system you use for gigs? What kind of PA-system are we talking about here? Is the rest of the band also playing through this PA system? Are we talking about a small rehearsal space PA system or the type of PA system you would expect to find at a professional venue?