That's my understanding as well. Above, I was referring to Ben's 60's bodies as opposed to his 70's bodies. His 70's template seems to be different than his 60's beyond just the p'up placement for whatever reason.
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Ben Lindsey Hot Rod Jazz Build
- Thread starter Scott McArron
- Start date
That's my understanding as well. Above, I was referring to Ben's 60's bodies as opposed to his 70's bodies. His 70's template seems to be different than his 60's beyond just the p'up placement for whatever reason.
Build Update:
We've decided to start over with a new bass. Here are the new specs:
- '66 period-correct jazz
- '60's body and pickup positions
- white binding and pearl inlays on rosewood board
- 10" radius fingerboard with rolled edges
- Gotoh cloverleaf tuners (rather than lollipop, Fender did both that year)
- Lollar pickups (I may experiment with other pickups down the road)
- Dakota red with white pick guard
- very light relic'ing
I think it's pretty incredible that Ben is more than willing to just start from scratch with a new bass. Now that is customer service! He really prides himself on making the right dream bass for the player.
To me, customer service is one of the best ways to win customers and ultimately grow your business. It's a forward-looking approach and the benefits are not always apparent right out of the gate. That's one of the reasons I have such great respect for customer-centric companies, or in this case, luthiers; they can see the big picture. Ben is one of those guys.
We've decided to start over with a new bass. Here are the new specs:
- '66 period-correct jazz
- '60's body and pickup positions
- white binding and pearl inlays on rosewood board
- 10" radius fingerboard with rolled edges
- Gotoh cloverleaf tuners (rather than lollipop, Fender did both that year)
- Lollar pickups (I may experiment with other pickups down the road)
- Dakota red with white pick guard
- very light relic'ing
I think it's pretty incredible that Ben is more than willing to just start from scratch with a new bass. Now that is customer service! He really prides himself on making the right dream bass for the player.
To me, customer service is one of the best ways to win customers and ultimately grow your business. It's a forward-looking approach and the benefits are not always apparent right out of the gate. That's one of the reasons I have such great respect for customer-centric companies, or in this case, luthiers; they can see the big picture. Ben is one of those guys.
You know, I thought that, too. I just talked to Ben and he says that the 60's era basses had slightly deeper contours than the 70's era basses. I'd love to find out by how much and when they started doing that.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
back in the early 70's i knew a guy that worked at Fender that did the tummy cut and arm relief contousr on their bodies. he said that there was no 'spec' for how deep they were. it was basically up to how heavy the paricular worker performing the work leaned it into the sander and how hard the piece of wood was on a particular body, so they varied quite a bit. by the mid/late 70's, they were using a heavier/harder ash so the contours were usually alot more shallow. he said that he would cut the contours at rate of about 350-400/bodies a day, and more if he didn't do them so deep.
Wow, I didn't realize it was so variable. I figured it would've been a lot more automated than how the guy was feeling on a particular day.
Interesting stuff, John!
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
Starting with a new bass! That is AMAZING customer service!!!!
Kudos to Ben. Looking forward to the new updates.
Kudos to Ben. Looking forward to the new updates.
Absolutely! It doesn't get much better than that! He really strives to do what's best for his customers, and that in my book is the big winner. On top of that, I've heard nothing but ecstatic things from those who have owned his basses. I'm confident this next one will be spot on for my picky desires.
BTW, 2 weeks out on parts. So updates may be a little while from now. It's basically going to look just like the last one but to true '66 specs. Can't wait!
Yeah, I just didn't want to post yet since I don't have any pics. The neck is all done and he's got all the parts and pieces. Should be done by late this coming week! He'll be sending pics as well, so stand-by for those!
Well mainly because I wouldn't be willing to build a new bass because of the perceived discrepancies in this thread.
It seems to me that this is, at least partially, a case of a buyer who didn't know exactly what he wanted. It happens to just about every person who custom orders a bass. It happened to me.
From what I've read, this is what I've gathered: You were unsure about the radius, the edges of the neck, as well as the pickups... and ultimately, you weren't satisfied with those aspects of the bass.
You specifically said that you didn't intend to go with period correct Fender specs...But then you have a problem that the control plate isn't period correct once JohnK brings it up. I mean, I congratulate John on being a retro nut....but no one is going to notice the control plates position on the bass. It looks fine. Does it look period correct? I guess not....but that's not what was specified. Does it look blatantly misaligned? No.
These are the things that would be going through my mind as the builder....and this is the reason why I could never build basses for a living
Edit: I should note that I could be entirely wrong in my interpretation of what went on. This was just the feeling I got from the info given in this thread
Where did I say that I was unsure about the neck edges? I wanted them rolled like any other Fender bass. It did not feel like a Fender or any other Fender-clone bass out there that I've played.
I was absolutely satisfied with the radius, so I'm not sure why you thought I wasn't.
I don't know if I was satisfied with the pickups or not. There are many factors that go into the tone of the bass.
Actually, yes. It looks blatantly misaligned. Once I got it in my hands and saw it in person, it looked wrong. I've never seen a Fender or Fender-clone bass with a control plate misaligned with the body. Period-correct or not, this was wrong.
Edit: I should note that I could be entirely wrong in my interpretation of what went on. This was just the feeling I got from the info given in this thread
The main things that I wanted corrected about the bass were the mis-aligned control plate and the not-white binding when I specified white. These were not to the specs I ordered them. I've asked for nothing more than what I ordered. Luckily, I know that Ben is a good enough guy to make that happen and trust that this next bass will be just that.
It looks like you did get the wrong interpretation. I think the reason you shouldn't be in customer service, as you said, has less to do with the customers. Please don't post about this thread unless you know you have the story straight.
It definitely takes a certain type of businessman to provide the kind of customer service attitude Ben has displayed. A lot of people would have blown Scott off, and human nature being what it is, he'd have continued doing fine with other customers no matter how loud Scott complained. From what I've seen here, top marks to you Mr Lindsey.
The control plate isn't misaligned. After seeing the picture of my Lindsey posted in this thread and context, I sat down with it to check--never notiiced anything before you mentioned that mine was the same. Anyway, the "misalignment" is realy just a slight (about 1/4", tapering to ~0) extra width of the body just under the "waist" and tapering to no difference by the end of the control plate. This gives the bass a very slighltly higher G-side waist, which in the pictures makes the control plate appear misaligned.
Probably not an important distinction to you, as the net visual effect is the same. However, I'm certain the appearnce could've been changed with merely a little sanding and repainting. As for the binding (off-white/parchment (?) vs white), I do recall from your posts that you might not have been specific when ordering the bass.
In my case, I never asked Ben for an exact copy of any year Fender, and I wouldn't change one thing on my Lindsey. In your case, I think Ben has demonstrated just how seriously he takes his committment to his customers.
You didn't. But you may not have specified how you have "picky fingers" and wanted the edges rolled to feel like your 75 RI, despite the flatter radius. I don't know for sure, but this quote from you definitely gives the impression that you might be partially at fault:
I also want to add that I regret posting some of the things I said earlier in the way I said them. As I look back on some of these posts, I realize that I sounded a little more negative than I intended. There were a couple things that I neglected to mention or clarify when we were going over the specs of the bass. I take responsibility for those things. Luckily, Ben is incredible enough to want to make my dream bass and is more than willing to do whatever is necessary to make that happen. There is no better customer service than that, IMO!
I didn't say you were unsatisfied with the 10" radius, I suggested you didn't think far enough ahead on what kind of effect a 10" radius would have on playability.
Yes, there are many factors that go into the tone of the bass...but you should know whether you like the pickups before you put them in the bass. You didn't in this case. This is something I'd put on you as the customer. Why go with a pickup you are unsure of?
No, it's not blatantly misaligned. It's simply aligned that way...and has been aligned that way on previous basses he's made. That's just how he makes those basses, and it doesn't look wrong, at least to me.
Exactly.
Really?
Then how come the changes? If you really knew what you were looking for in this bass, you would have seen his other projects, taken that into account, and added that to the list of things that you wanted, AKA light neck, string tree, different pickups, and a high amount of rolling on the FB edges.
The only thing I can see that he didn't get right is the binding...and even that is in question by folks other than me:
I did say I could have the wrong interpretation, but I'm working with the picture you've painted in this thread. And if you don't want honest responses, don't open a thread asking for them.
Isn't it rather pointless for you too be tossing about your blunt, borderline inflammatory observations when the customer and builder have already agreed upon a solution?
This isn't my first custom bass. I wanted a Fender-clone bass. This means that having a Fender body properly shaped so the control plate aligns with the contour of the body is a given. I shouldn't have to spec that in my order.
As for the binding, white is not parchment and parchment isn't white. When I talked to Ben about this in November, I said "one of the reasons that I want a custom bass rather than just refinishing my current Fender is that my current Fender has the off white binding. I'd like to get one with regular white binding more similar to the white pick guard," (or something very similar to that. When it came time to order, I specified white binding. At this point, there shouldn't have been a problem, but it happens and I understand that.
I also specifically asked for a bass that was sub 9 lbs and that balanced well on the strap. That was part of the order, otherwise I'd get my bass somewhere else that could fulfill these specifications or I'd forget a custom order completely and wait till I find the right one in a shop somewhere.
Obviously, there were some communication errors somewhere along the line. Ben has done a great job of making sure I get what I ordered.
In the beginning, I wanted a '75 Fender clone, and we settled on a 10" radius neck. So it should look and feel like a 75 Fender (or better, actually). Ben decided to go with a more modern feeling neck. I OK'd that. I like the feel of modern necks. However, when we went with the modern neck somewhere the issue of weight and balance got missed. The body was slightly too light and the neck slightly too heavy.
Given that the 70's style body Ben has been using is slightly off in comparison with a Fender 70's body, we agreed to go ahead and just use the 60's body which we know is the right shape. That's the "fix" we determined would work for this build to get it to the specs I ordered (minus the 70's pickup location, of course, which is fine with me). But we can't just change the body out for a heavier one because that would make the bass well above 9 lbs. which is not what I ordered. The only conclusion is to start from scratch.
Looking back on this thread and on the original specs sheet I sent Ben, I feel confident that I included ample specs to get the Fender-style jazz bass of my dreams. The first one didn't align with those specs, but I'm sure the second one will. Ben rocks.
