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Bergantino AE212 - Just Released

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#421
Most of the Genz amps have rather complex gain/volume adjustments.

If you had the gain control, preamp volume control, and master volume control maxed, then you really had it maxed.

I'd think that would either chuff &/or distress any 2x12 cab.
...then again, maybe not a Berg...had to be hella loud!
 
#422
I normally have PA support. Didn't need it the first night, and the second night there was an issue with one of the amps, so I didn't use it that night either.
Master was full on, preamp volume was full on, and the gain was around half. EQ was flat, and no tone shaping was engaged.
Limit light blinked now and then, but was never full on, which seems to be normal for this amp.
 
#423
I've heard someone say that the Genz 9, although rated for much higher wattage than an LMII/LMIII, appears to be over-rated or maybe the LMII is under-rated? Based on what the Genz 9 should be able to do, I find this hard to believe that it was out of gas.
 
#424
Any thoughts on using the AE212 with a tube head...

I play with a Fender Bassman 100 and am currently using a NV412 -- want someting smaller for smaller rooms, traveling, etc... but something that can still keep up.

There's the whole tube / sealed cab thing... I am liking the sealed cabs these days and nervous about buying a ported cab. When I played the bassman with a ported 2x15 Ashdown rig, the bottom end was just out of control. No focus on anything coming from the E string.

Also, no a big tweeter fan. Is this cab worth it for me?
 
#425
clean matters for sure, and I guess its a matter of output vs clean output......
maybe if I had a head capable of producing 800w RMS totally clean, the AE410 would take it all, but I doubt most cabs would be happy with the LMII cranked to full potential, be it sheer output or distortion levels.....I would expect some distress coming from the cab.......

I guess I was understanding that the bass and amp were max'd out period, not what was perceived to be max clean output......

nice conversation nonetheless.....:D
 
#426
hennessybass said:
Any thoughts on using the AE212 with a tube head...

I play with a Fender Bassman 100 and am currently using a NV412 -- want someting smaller for smaller rooms, traveling, etc... but something that can still keep up.

There's the whole tube / sealed cab thing... I am liking the sealed cabs these days and nervous about buying a ported cab. When I played the bassman with a ported 2x15 Ashdown rig, the bottom end was just out of control. No focus on anything coming from the E string.

Also, no a big tweeter fan. Is this cab worth it for me?
Click to expand...

I would think that ports would likely not be a problem. I used to use a Bassman 50 with the Berg HS210, and though it wasn't the loudest thing in the world, the sound was very nice. No lack of definition down low that I can recall. I actually remeber thinking that a Fender Bassman might be a pretty good match for the AE212 when I was trying it out a few weeks ago.

One warning - I think that this is a combo you would want to try before you buy, I'm not entirely sure how the Neo speakers will react to the Bassman, but the AE212 is by no means a "flabby" sounding cab.
 
#427
Whitbass said:
clean matters for sure, and I guess its a matter of output vs clean output......
maybe if I had a head capable of producing 800w RMS totally clean, the AE410 would take it all, but I doubt most cabs would be happy with the LMII cranked to full potential, be it sheer output or distortion levels.....I would expect some distress coming from the cab.......

I guess I was understanding that the bass and amp were max'd out period, not what was perceived to be max clean output......

nice conversation nonetheless.....:D
Click to expand...
IME, most 410's and 212's have no problem taking every bit of the LMII. I can usually hear the limiter kicking in before the cab displays any evidence of over exertion. A good example of this is to drive a cab hard with a LMII, then put a Carvin b1500 in it's place. The sheer power and headroom of the b1500 really show that the LMII is the limiting factor in a setup.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the LMII. Probably my favorite lightweight head of all time, even with a couple of design annoyances. It's more power than I typically ever need into a good 4 ohm, multi-driver cab, but it's not powerful enough to test what those cabs are really capable of IMHO/E.
 
#428
Alphaman said:
I've heard someone say that the Genz 9, although rated for much higher wattage than an LMII/LMIII, appears to be over-rated or maybe the LMII is under-rated? Based on what the Genz 9 should be able to do, I find this hard to believe that it was out of gas.
Click to expand...

I don't get it either, which is why I'm still hanging with Markbass.
 
#429
Doug Parent said:
I don't get it either, which is why I'm still hanging with Markbass.
Click to expand...

I own both...they definitely do different things. What people don't always realize...A Shuttle 9 at 900 watts is not going to be 80% louder than an LMII at 500 watts. I don't remember the exact math. But, it is going to be somewhere in the order of 30-40% louder. Which is about right, from my experience with both amps.
 
#430
Whitbass said:
clean matters for sure, and I guess its a matter of output vs clean output......
maybe if I had a head capable of producing 800w RMS totally clean, the AE410 would take it all, but I doubt most cabs would be happy with the LMII cranked to full potential, be it sheer output or distortion levels.....I would expect some distress coming from the cab.......

I guess I was understanding that the bass and amp were max'd out period, not what was perceived to be max clean output......

nice conversation nonetheless.....:D
Click to expand...

I think you answered your own question. From my experience, the LMII breaks up as you push it really hard. I've run one through an AE410 and an AE212. About the point you start to hit near maximum output, it breaks up. Not the cab, but the amp. The Shuttle
9.0 or other high power amps (epifani
902c and thunderfunk tfb750) that I have run through an ae410 or 212 did not exhibit the same behavior. I think you are hearing the amp give out, not the cab
 
#431
Yeah, folks shouldn't expect a huge volume difference going from 500 to 900 watts even if everything else is equal. What they could expect is a bit more headroom such that if they were playing on the edge of what the 500 watt head was capable of, then the 900 watt head would give them a bit more openness and punch.

But since everything else isn't equal when comparing the Shuttle 9.0 to the LMII, then it really comes down to a lot of things when choosing which is right for a player. The preamps sound different, the feature set is different (EQ points, mute, VLE, VPF, Preshape filters, semi-parametric, etc). However I do think the Shuttle has more horsepower under the hood than the LMII, even if the two companies rate their heads differently. Many folks have attested to that here at TB.
 
#432
Just my 2c, but not sure what is the significance of the example of putting the S9 on a single 212, then using that as the only bass source in a full rock show outdoors with no FOH support. I suppose it is nice that it almost or maybe did supply sufficient levels, but can't see that in any way serves as typical use.

Just guessing, but suspect that either LMII/III or S9 with the 212 would be quite enough in most typical shows. I've been using an S6 with a Schroeder 1212BMF for quite a while now in a rather loud classic rock band and generally have way more than enough headroom with that configuration. So, I believe you are well into the zone where personal preferences will dictate selection for most cases, IMO. GL
 
#434
Washishimi said:
I normally have PA support. Didn't need it the first night, and the second night there was an issue with one of the amps, so I didn't use it that night either.
Master was full on, preamp volume was full on, and the gain was around half. EQ was flat, and no tone shaping was engaged.
Limit light blinked now and then, but was never full on, which seems to be normal for this amp.
Click to expand...

1. I hope to god you use ear plugs.

2. I'd NEVER take an outdoor type gig that had no FOH. I don't care what you're playing, it's not going to sound as good as it should. IMO
 
#435
Washishimi said:
Had the second gig with the Shuttle 9.0/AE212 last night. Kind of an outdoor room, very different than the night before. I very much seemed to have reached the limits of this pairing on this particular gig. Nothing wrong with the sound at all. In fact, I received many compliments. But my bass and amp were pretty much maxed out. The cab took it all, and didn't look or sound stressed at all. Sounded beautiful. So in this particular case, I was either asking too much from the cab, or the amp just reached it's max.
Click to expand...
I finally got to play a couple of gigs with my AE212. My first gig (on Saturday) was an outdoor event in a large field for a HUGE campground in Deming, Washington. This was with my really loud 7-piece top 40 band. The campground managers estimated attendance at 2,000 (1,600 paying guests, plus 400-500 "gate-crashers").

I played my "big-gig-rig," which is an AE212 on bottom, with an AE 210 stacked vertically on top, driven by two Shuttle 9.0's. The sound was tight, detailed, full (and really loud)! My Sadowsky NYC J5 sounded great, especially slapped! Very powerful (and loud). I aked my soundman--a bass player--how I sounded. (He loves my Aggie DB750 and often tells me that the new lightweight stuff just doesn't do it for him.) He told me the bass sounded AMAZING!!

Monday's gig was an outdoor restaurant event, with the band (eight-piece band with horns and percussion) under a canopy and the patrons eating on the restaurant's outdoor deck. I just played the AE212 with Shuttle 9.0. Excellent clarity and focus, and a really nice bloom in the low end. And a really cool look!

Great cabinet! I'm glad I got it!
Greg
 
#437
KJung said:
My guess is, it is the amplification. As one who used that Alembic pre back in the day for years, it is warm and fat and full with a nice edge to it up top, but it does not really excel in 'low mid punch' and forceful low end... it is more relaxed down there, since it is based on that old Fender Showman or Bassman circuit and voicing.

IMO and IME!
Click to expand...

Hey Ken I just picked up an old FX-1 (had to have it for old time sake!) my guess with my Epi UL2 410 and UL2 210 stack this pre is going to be pretty clear overall but the low end is going to get a little loosey gooosey?
 
#438
Groovin said:
1. I hope to god you use ear plugs.

2. I'd NEVER take an outdoor type gig that had no FOH. I don't care what you're playing, it's not going to sound as good as it should. IMO
Click to expand...

I never would either, but like I said, there was an issue with the PA when I got there, so it wasn't an option. Rather than pack it up and cancel, I played the gig. But at the end of the day, all sounded fantastic. The AE212 is just a wonderful sounding cab, plain and simple. People were dancing, and the owners loved us. Thats all that matters.
I think I may trade the AE212 for the AE410 though, as that should cover the larger gigs, or any gigs where the PA is not-so supportive :)
 
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