Bergantino AE212 - Just Released

[Jerry J]

Just picked up a new AE 212 from Grandma's Music in Albuquerque last night. Can't wait to see how it sounds against the NV215.

I do like the weight. I tried it in store with a Shuttle 6 which should match my Shuttle 12 pretty nice. Gigging it tonight.

Do they break in with some hours or sound the same after some hours of playing time?

Kinda off topic but I am in Albuquerque for work until the first of January and had the opportunity to go to Grandma's today. I was kinda surprised to see that they have an NV610 and an AE210. Surprising for a small town as even Portland doesn't have a Bergantino dealer.

 

[Eublet]

My AE212 arrived today, a day early! The Shuttle 9.0 won't arrive until tomorrow, so I'm not going to comment TOO much on the Berg until I've had some time to pair those two. I've been playing with the RH450 through AE212 this afternoon.

The form factor of the AE212 is very, very nice. Tall, thin and not too deep. I really dig that. Upon connecting the RH450 and playing through the Berg, honestly the first thing that came to mind was "Schroeder". The darkness of the RH450 up top combined with the tightness and aggressiveness in the Berg provided a really mid-forward punch and bite. Don't get me wrong, it isn't nearly as boxy sounding as those small Schroeder cabs, but it has that kind of aggressive quality going on. I'm sure the Shuttle will sound quite different. If the AE212 is deeper and less aggressive than the AE410, I'm glad I didn't get the AE410 because I think it would have been too much for my tastes. I've paired the RH450 with quite a few different cabs, and this is by far the most aggressive sounding one, which is a plus for me. Even with the RH450, it seems to have the kind of tone that would just sit right in the mix without having to do much at all to get it to sound good. It's not necessarily a beautiful and polite sound when solo'd. Very grindy in the right kind of way.

I was taken back by the tone at first as it's not nearly as smooth and round as I have gotten used to the last couple of years. But honestly, the last couple of years I haven't been nearly as happy as I have in times past, not on the gig at least. Seems like I've been fighting my equipment more often than not, trying to remove rumble and add mid-content without dialing in a lot of honk. I think this will do it.

 

[KJung]

My AE212 arrived today, a day early! The Shuttle 9.0 won't arrive until tomorrow, so I'm not going to comment TOO much on the Berg until I've had some time to pair those two. I've been playing with the RH450 through AE212 this afternoon.

The form factor of the AE212 is very, very nice. Tall, thin and not too deep. I really dig that. Upon connecting the RH450 and playing through the Berg, honestly the first thing that came to mind was "Schroeder". The darkness of the RH450 up top combined with the tightness and aggressiveness in the Berg provided a really mid-forward punch and bite. Don't get me wrong, it isn't nearly as boxy sounding as those small Schroeder cabs, but it has that kind of aggressive quality going on. I'm sure the Shuttle will sound quite different. If the AE212 is deeper and less aggressive than the AE410, I'm glad I didn't get the AE410. I've paired the RH450 with quite a few different cabs, and this is by far the most aggressive sounding one, which is a plus for me. Even with the RH450, it seems to have the kind of tone that would just sit right in the mix without having to do much at all to get to sound good. It's not necessarily a beautiful and polite sound all solo. Very grindy in the right kind of way.

I was taken back by the tone at first as it's not nearly as smooth and round as I have gotten used to the last couple of years. But honestly, the last couple of years I haven't been nearly as happy as I have in times past, not on the gig at least. Seems like I've been fighting my equipment more often than not, trying to remove rumble and add mid-content without dialing in a lot of honk. I think this will do it.

At the risk of opening up a whole can of snark worms on myself again, this cab has one of the most extreme 'break-in' effects I've ever heard in all my years of gearing. Again, you don't have to do anything special, but you (like myself and others have posted) will notice a quite significant opening up of the low end and softening of the upper mids within about the first hour of playing. It happens very quickly and then the cab pretty much 'sounds like it sounds'. It still will have the characteristic AE 'brightness' up top, but it is fat, fat, fat down low.

I usually don't hear any impact to a cabs voicing over time, but holy moly, does it impact this one for some reason. By tomorrow, it will be fatter and smoother.

That being said, I have no love for the RH450/AE212 combination... just kind of sounds dull... much better IMO with the brighter, grindier AE410.

It should kill

 

[Eublet]

At the risk of opening up a whole can of snark worms on myself again, this cab has one of the most extreme 'break-in' effects I've ever heard in all my years of gearing. Again, you don't have to do anything special, but you (like myself and others have posted) will notice a quite significant opening up of the low end and softening of the upper mids within about the first hour of playing. It happens very quickly and then the cab pretty much 'sounds like it sounds'. It still will have the characteristic AE 'brightness' up top, but it is fat, fat, fat down low.

I usually don't hear any impact to a cabs voicing over time, but holy moly, does it impact this one for some reason. By tomorrow, it will be fatter and smoother.

That being said, I have no love for the RH450/AE212 combination... just kind of sounds dull... much better IMO with the brighter, grindier AE410.

It should kill

It doesn't sound bottom shy to me necessarily right now, but in proportion to those mids one might think so. The voicing of the RH450 combined with the crossover on the AE212 really doesn't give you much play room for treble response. No zing at all, so I totally agree with you describing this pairing as a bit dull. Even with the tweeter full on, there's very little "ping" to speak of with the TC. The glassy top of the Shuttle should fix that real quick.

I hope I don't sound disappointed. I've used the RH450 enough to know that it doesn't always bond with certain cabs, yet I can tell that this cab will ultimately sound great with the right head. A few pages back, I was very concerned about several folks calling this cabinet "smoother sounding." I guess in comparison to the AE410 it is, but IMHO thus far, it is still quite aggressive. MUCH more aggressive sounding than the NeoX 212T. Since I asked about that comparison along with several others, I'll just go on record right now as saying that comparing the AE212 to the NeoX 212 is apples to oranges, despite the seemingly similar form factor. VERY different sounding cabinets.

I'm impressed with the cab, and I'm very optimistic at the moment about choosing the Shuttle 9 to use with it.

 

[Chef]

Can you try to quantify the diffs you hear in AE212 vs NeoX212?

 

[KJung]

It doesn't sound bottom shy to me necessarily right now, but in proportion to those mids one might think so. The voicing of the RH450 combined with the crossover on the AE212 really doesn't give you much play room for treble response. No zing at all, so I totally agree with you describing this pairing as a bit dull. Even with the tweeter full on, there's very little "ping" to speak of with the TC. The glassy top of the Shuttle should fix that real quick.

I hope I don't sound disappointed. I've used the RH450 enough to know that it doesn't always bond with certain cabs, yet I can tell that this cab will ultimately sound great with the right head. A few pages back, I was very concerned about several folks calling this cabinet "smoother sounding." I guess in comparison to the AE410 it is, but IMHO thus far, it is still quite aggressive. MUCH more aggressive sounding than the NeoX 212T. Since I asked about that comparison along with several others, I'll just go on record right now as saying that comparing the AE212 to the NeoX 212 is apples to oranges, despite the seemingly similar form factor. VERY different sounding cabinets.

I'm impressed with the cab, and I'm very optimistic at the moment about choosing the Shuttle 9 to use with it.

+1 It is that ratio of mids to low end that evolves over an hour or so... much smoother response, and a much higher ratio of deep bass to mids and upper mids after a bit of pounding.

While I didn't dig the RH450 much with it, you might want to revisit that combination in a few days just for the heck of it.

 

[rodl2005]

I've been gigging with the AE212 < Mesa Walkabout Scout 12" combo on top of it. The Big round 'bloom' of the scout goes nicely with the AE212. Had a very nice grind going in some of the rockier moments!!!

Tho, at one of the gigs, I simply unplugged the Mesa Scout speaker, so it was just the WA powering the AE212 & I was just as happy.

A couple of these gigs were without PA support, & I had nothing but very complimentary comments re the bass sound.

So it's getting less & less 'easy' for me to take the NV215 :-(

 

[Eublet]

Can you try to quantify the diffs you hear in AE212 vs NeoX212?

I'd be scared to elaborate too much on this since it's been a while since I've played the NeoX. However, I liked the sound of the NeoX with the RH450. A bit more smooth, with a gradually slope upward in response as you moved into the upper mids. As such, it was very articulate, but not aggressive sounding, at least not in a ballsy kind of way. Just mid present. However, the RH450 through the AE212 is VERY aggressive sounding. It's rather rude so to speak. The dullness is accentuated because of those mids. They just cover up the tweeter. The RH450 low passes around 5k, and the crossover on the AE212 is at 4k. So you've got a quarter octave of wiggle room going into the tweeter. That's not much. If the RH450 was low-passed at 7k, it would probably sound much, much better with this cab.

Also, the mid-aggressive bite in the AE212 seems to be well under that 4k crossover, maybe around 2khz, so there's lots of paper/cone growl there. The NeoX seemed to have less of that, while continuing that gradual slope up to the crossover point. I guess I'd say the AE212 has LOT more "character" to the tone. Definitely less hi-fi than the NeoX.

I'll have a much better point of reference tomorrow with the Shuttle since I gigged 3 different Genz heads through the NeoX over the years.

 

[Eublet]

Proof

 

[rodl2005]

Thinking about pairing this cab with a Mesa Walkabout head and a passive Pino CS P bass....looking to get a more classic sound that will still cut through a mix. Any thoughts?

Just thought I'd let you know re the post I made a page over from your Question(therefore-'above')


I own a Mesa WA Scout 8 ohm 12" combo. & While I don't have a CS PINO P. I DO have a 50's P with flats & the WA sounds fantastic thru the AE212- as it does thru ANY cab I've used it.

 

[Musicman20]

I'd be scared to elaborate too much on this since it's been a while since I've played the NeoX. However, I liked the sound of the NeoX with the RH450. A bit more smooth, with a gradually slope upward in response as you moved into the upper mids. As such, it was very articulate, but not aggressive sounding, at least not in a ballsy kind of way. Just mid present. However, the RH450 through the AE212 is VERY aggressive sounding. It's rather rude so to speak. The dullness is accentuated because of those mids. They just cover up the tweeter. The RH450 low passes around 5k, and the crossover on the AE212 is at 4k. So you've got a quarter octave of wiggle room going into the tweeter. That's not much. If the RH450 was low-passed at 7k, it would probably sound much, much better with this cab.

Also, the mid-aggressive bite in the AE212 seems to be well under that 4k crossover, maybe around 2khz, so there's lots of paper/cone growl there. The NeoX seemed to have less of that, while continuing that gradual slope up to the crossover point. I guess I'd say the AE212 has LOT more "character" to the tone. Definitely less hi-fi than the NeoX.

I'll have a much better point of reference tomorrow with the Shuttle since I gigged 3 different Genz heads through the NeoX over the years.

Thanks for the comparison, although as you and Ken have mentioned the Shuttle and break in might change things a little.

The idea of a lot of inherent aggression, however, is something I think won't suit my goals. I like that aggression but only when I dial it in a little. Flat, I like it smooth with punch.

It sounds like the Genz might work out for me from your description. I need to try these two out. Thanks, hope you enjoy it

Edit: Even though sometimes I love aggressive mids, as I have lots Musicman basses (which excel at punch!) I find mixing too much aggression makes the bass stand out far too much.

 

[Eublet]

Thanks for the comparison, although as you and Ken have mentioned the Shuttle and break in might change things a little.

The idea of a lot of inherent aggression, however, is something I think won't suit my goals. I like that aggression but only when I dial it in a little. Flat, I like it smooth with punch.

It sounds like the Genz might work out for me from your description. I need to try these two out. Thanks, hope you enjoy it

Edit: Even though sometimes I love aggressive mids, as I have lots Musicman basses (which excel at punch!) I find mixing too much aggression makes the bass stand out far too much.

The funny thing is that after stepping away from it a while to get some office work done, I go back to it and it sounds great from the start. Still aggressive, but really good. The cab just has an snarl there. Didn't you like the RS212? To me, that cabinet was way to smooth through the upper-mids. Combined with that low-mid push, it just wound up sounding big and pillowy in the mix to me, with little character or presence. I didn't care for it at all unless I was outside in a large open space so that the low-end would dissipate a bit. The AE212 is a pretty radical departure from that.

 

[Eublet]

So how long do I have to own this thing before I can call it the greatest cab I've ever owned?

 

[rodneyat]

So how long do I have to own this thing before I can call it the greatest cab I've ever owned?

I've had mine for months and still say that. I've never done that before!

 

[Musicman20]

The funny thing is that after stepping away from it a while to get some office work done, I go back to it and it sounds great from the start. Still aggressive, but really good. The cab just has an snarl there. Didn't you like the RS212? To me, that cabinet was way to smooth through the upper-mids. Combined with that low-mid push, it just wound up sounding big and pillowy in the mix to me, with little character or presence. I didn't care for it at all unless I was outside in a large open space so that the low-end would dissipate a bit. The AE212 is a pretty radical departure from that.

Ah yes, the RS212 is a nice smooth cabinet, which obvious some like and some do not. Its definitely not going anywhere as the tone and the form factor make it a great cab for me.

I need to do a little more reading and try and test the Neo x 212T before deciding what to do

 

[Eublet]

Ah yes, the RS212 is a nice smooth cabinet, which obvious some like and some do not. Its definitely not going anywhere as the tone and the form factor make it a great cab for me.

I need to do a little more reading and try and test the Neo x 212T before deciding what to do

You might like the NeoX 212 then. It's smooth also, except that it favors the upper mids versus the lower mids. More articulate so that it punches through the mix, with a tighter and much more punchy bottom. Very 410-like IMHO, unlike the RS212. It's not rude sounding at all, and the form factor is also very nice. Worth checking out if you are able.

 

[Eublet]

Shuttle 9.0 is here. I've been banging on this combo for an hour or so now. Versus the RH450, the AE212/Shuttle 9.0 has a MUCH better sound all the way around, as if they were designed in tandem. The Shuttle will drive the absolute snot out of the AE212 without the output limit light ever flashing. It's just wonderful sounding. Run flat, it's very aggressive with an ultra tight bottom that I like, with much more top end than the RH450 provided. I've never really used the filters on the Genz heads, but the LF Boost on the 9.0 actually sounds really good with the AE212 since it just lowers that high pass filter without really boosting any bass. It's kind of like an on/off switch for a pillowy bottom. VERY nice. Maybe I'll actually use it some time.

For me though, leaving the filters off and dialing up the lows to about 1 or 1:30 with my 55-02 was just instant gratification. Still a bit aggressive but smoother sounding. To get it even smoother still, taking a touch off around 1k just sounds incredible. This is the tone I've been missing for quite a while. Since the AE212 is so aggressive sounding, scooping a bit out at 1k still has a lot of bite, but it's buried in the other frequencies at this point. The resulting tone is more modern sounding without being anemic. For my goals, I much prefer this approach versus trying to add 1k to a smooth sounding cab which just seems to make it honky or clanky.

I turned down the Tweeter to about 10 o'clock which is just right for me. With the Shuttle treble set at noon, it seems to give me the perfect blend, and boosting just a touch adds some nice sizzle. Since the Shuttle's treble is at 4k, just like the crossover on the AE212, cutting treble has the effect of pulling that sizzle out quickly if you want, and it gets warm and round. I don't think I need a VLE or PTC at all from what I'm hearing.

This almost makes me wonder if Jim Bergantino and Andy at Genz worked together on this and decided not to tell anyone about it. Very nice synergy going on. Can't wait to get this on a gig, but I can already tell it will be wonderful. I'll never need much more than about 75% of the total volume this thing can put out, which is just right given the form factor. I'm a happy camper!

Side Note: I also bet this head would KILL with a Neox 212!

 

[KJung]

Nice. I feel the same way about my F500 and that cab (and also do not recommend the RH450 with this particular cab). I would think the Shuttle 9 would sound great also, given my experience with the Shuttle 6 and the AE410. Nice! Enjoy!

Funny that if I'm not running the F500 flat, I slightly boost around 1K in some rooms for a bit more grind and definition!

Per my clip comparing the AE410 and AE212, if you boost the low mids around 250hz a touch, and boost the upper mids around 1K, you can get the AE212 quite close to the AE410 tone, and vice versa... pretty cool.

 

[Eublet]

Nice. I feel the same way about my F500 and that cab (and also do not recommend the RH450 with this particular cab). I would think the Shuttle 9 would sound great also, given my experience with the Shuttle 6 and the AE410. Nice! Enjoy!

I was really on the fence between the Shuttle 9.0, Shuttle MAX 6, and F500. The latter two mostly because of the dual band mids, and the F500 because of that VLE. I really wanted the extra power of the 9.0 however, so I took a chance on it. So far I defintely think it was the right decision. I assume the F500 is probably a bit more powerful sounding than the LMII since it doesn't quite have the low end extension. I'm confident that the Shuttle 9.0 would easily distance itself from the LMII through a bigger cabinet since my RH450 seemed to outpace the LMII ever so slightly. I could detect just a bit of stress on the AE212 drivers when pushing it hard for a minute or two, and the OL light never even flashed on the 9.0. Headroom in a 4 lb package. Gotta love it.

 

[Chef]

Eublet: too bad you don't like the AE212 so well

I really need to audition one of those.