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Bergantino AE212; Part 2!!

#181
KJung said:
Stll on the road. Wonderful gigs with the AE212 and the LMII and my new Nordy 5 string P bass. Amazing matchup... warm, fat, but not boomy or muddy. The perfect P Bass rig for those that want a warm but still clean and articulate P Bass tone. Smoking volume also. The LMII had been assigned to back-up role for a couple of years now, and I still prefer the F1/F500 with my J basses. However, the warmer, smoother tone of the LMII just sings with the passive P. :hyper:
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How much playing time is your Nordy Vp5 getting at any given gig? Do you use it for a full set, or even a full gig? Or just songs that call for the Pbass sound?

Glad to hear the LMII is a great match for your AE212. Not surprised it sounds good. :D
 
#182
Ok, so courtesy of Saluki, I got to spend a little time with one of these... no gigs with it until next weekend, but some interesting results. I compared it to my stack of AE210's and it sounds a lot more evenly voiced to me. The AE210's seem to have more going on around 500Hz or so, and then again somewhere around maybe 200Hz. Definitely a lot stronger through the mids, but not as much low end extension as the AE212... pretty much the same up top, but I think you can hear the high end better with the AE212 because it's so much more even through the mids. I'd also say the AE212 has a really nice transparent deeper bottom to it than the 210's.

So to kinda' tie it all up, I think the AE210's would be a lot more effective at cutting a nasty mix with a bit more chest punch, especially in a boomier room (which is what I mainly use them for), but maybe not give you as big and sweet of a sound as the AE212, and with not as much edge in the upper mids and highs as the AE212.

One thing I do still like better about the AE210's is I can stack them on-end and get a much taller bass rig for better monitoring on smaller stages. This will not matter to a lot of folks, but it does me.

So from a purely tonal point, I really like the AE212 best. It has a much more 3D tone... seems like you can really pick out the details of the sound of your bass, but from a purely functional point, the AE210's may be more "effective" in some cases.

Keep in mind EQ can always be used to adjust... just FYI on "base tone" at least.

The gig next weekend is in kind of a rude place, but I will be able to get enough away from my rig that I can just deal with pure tone. We'll see. If
 
#184
This is exactly my experience Vic. I had the AE410. Went to 2x AE210 for the added flexibility. Now that I have the 212. I am TOTALLY digging it and really do prefer it tonally over the AE210s in a huge way. There is still no cabinet that I have liked better...EVER.

I do see your point about the higher stacking with the 210s but, for me, that is pretty minor. Just add an AE112 to the bottom and then you'll have your high stack back again. :bassist:

Vic said:
Ok, so courtesy of Saluki, I got to spend a little time with one of these... no gigs with it until next weekend, but some interesting results. I compared it to my stack of AE210's and it sounds a lot more evenly voiced to me. The AE210's seem to have more going on around 500Hz or so, and then again somewhere around maybe 200Hz. Definitely a lot stronger through the mids, but not as much low end extension as the AE212... pretty much the same up top, but I think you can hear the high end better with the AE212 because it's so much more even through the mids. I'd also say the AE212 has a really nice transparent deeper bottom to it than the 210's.

So to kinda' tie it all up, I think the AE210's would be a lot more effective at cutting a nasty mix with a bit more chest punch, especially in a boomier room (which is what I mainly use them for), but maybe not give you as big and sweet of a sound as the AE212, and with not as much edge in the upper mids and highs as the AE212.

One thing I do still like better about the AE210's is I can stack them on-end and get a much taller bass rig for better monitoring on smaller stages. This will not matter to a lot of folks, but it does me.

So from a purely tonal point, I really like the AE212 best. It has a much more 3D tone... seems like you can really pick out the details of the sound of your bass, but from a purely functional point, the AE210's may be more "effective" in some cases.

Keep in mind EQ can always be used to adjust... just FYI on "base tone" at least.

The gig next weekend is in kind of a rude place, but I will be able to get enough away from my rig that I can just deal with pure tone. We'll see. If
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#187
rodneyat said:
This is exactly my experience Vic. I had the AE410. Went to 2x AE210 for the added flexibility. Now that I have the 212. I am TOTALLY digging it and really do prefer it tonally over the AE210s in a huge way. There is still no cabinet that I have liked better...EVER.

I do see your point about the higher stacking with the 210s but, for me, that is pretty minor. Just add an AE112 to the bottom and then you'll have your high stack back again. :bassist:
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Have you found that you miss some of that mid punch from the AE210's? I mean, it's not like the AE212 doesn't have it, it's just extra accentuated in the 210's, IMHO.
 
#188
Vic said:
Have you found that you miss some of that mid punch from the AE210's? I mean, it's not like the AE212 doesn't have it, it's just extra accentuated in the 210's, IMHO.
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That was my #1 concern with the AE212. You are right, it probably does not quite have the punch of the 210 but, at least for me. That is not necessarily so bad. The AE212 definitely has more punch than any other 12 I have ever used. My biggest complaint with 12s in the past has been their lack of punch and muddy low end. The AE212 solves that in spades. To my ears, the AE210 and AE410 can be a bit too accentuated on the top end. The AE212 is a bit more polite but brings in some tight low end too. Its like the best of both worlds
 
#189
rodneyat said:
That was my #1 concern with the AE212. You are right, it probably does not quite have the punch of the 210 but, at least for me. That is not necessarily so bad. The AE212 definitely has more punch than any other 12 I have ever used. My biggest complaint with 12s in the past has been their lack of punch and muddy low end. The AE212 solves that in spades. To my ears, the AE210 and AE410 can be a bit too accentuated on the top end. The AE212 is a bit more polite but brings in some tight low end too. Its like the best of both worlds
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Yeah... you know, at this point, what I'd really love to do is compare the AE212 with a pair of the AE112's.

The AE212 is not bad, but I find it just big enough and heavy enough that it's noticeably more of a hassle to carry than a pair of 112's or 210's. Even just manipulating it in and out of a car/SUV if you use a cart for the bulk of the trip to the stage.

Don't get me wrong, it's totally do-able... just the 112's are a lot easier. I have a feeling there'd be a bit less depth to the 112 pair, but maybe a bit more mid punch... tho maybe not as much as the AE210's... maybe the perfect in-between.
 
#190
Vic said:
Yeah... you know, at this point, what I'd really love to do is compare the AE212 with a pair of the AE112's.

The AE212 is not bad, but I find it just big enough and heavy enough that it's noticeably more of a hassle to carry than a pair of 112's or 210's. Even just manipulating it in and out of a car/SUV if you use a cart for the bulk of the trip to the stage.

Don't get me wrong, it's totally do-able... just the 112's are a lot easier. I have a feeling there'd be a bit less depth to the 112 pair, but maybe a bit more mid punch... tho maybe not as much as the AE210's... maybe the perfect in-between.
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I have not tried it with 2 AE112s as of yet. But would like to do so myself. I have a single AE112. So it's not a true comparison. It definitely has more mid and high presence. I can't say that it is necessarily more mid punch but definitely more present. I talked to Jim Bergantino about the 112 vs 212. He said he purposely voiced them different. He would not say exactly how but they definitely sound different. He encouraged me to try putting the 112 and 212 stacked together. Man, it is the ultimate high output, high volume rig. Assuming you have an amp that can below 4ohms, it is a killer combination. Jim jokingly called it the AE312. :)
 
#191
Chef said:
Do any of you AE212 owners ever wish the horn was in the upper left corner instead of down lower, in the middle?
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I did at first, but I quickly changed my mind. It seems to help prevent the tweeter from sounding to powerful in that 5-10 foot range, so you can run it hotter so that it has the right blend further out in front.
 
#192
rodneyat said:
...He encouraged me to try putting the 112 and 212 stacked together...
...Assuming you have an amp that can below 4ohms...
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Yeah, and a lot of amps can't. I have some that can, but I'm not sure I wanna' limit myself that way, either. I'd probably just do something different.
 
#193
Vic said:
Yeah... you know, at this point, what I'd really love to do is compare the AE212 with a pair of the AE112's..
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Since I purchased the AE212 this has crossed my mind. My initial thought was to dump my AE410/AE210 setup and go to an AE212/AE112 setup. The AE212 is noticeably fuller sounding but in the mix I might dial in some more upper mids and dial out some lows , which gets me back closer to me AE410 tone or I could just add a single AE112 on top for some more penetrating mids and get the stack taller. This would work great with the 2ohm stable M6, but not so good with the SL900 I just bought. I am a little concerned about the low end on SL900 with the low end on the AE212 being a bit much and thinking the AE112 stack might be perfect for that amp.

Funny that Jim mentioned mixing the AE212/AE112. I used to run the AE210 with and AE112 based on Tom B's suggestion and it sounded great. I also used the AE210/HS210 combo. That was pretty powerful combo with articulate cutting mids and just enough lows.
 
#194
Saluki said:
I am a little concerned about the low end on SL900 with the low end on the AE212 being a bit much and thinking the AE112 stack might be perfect for that amp.
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Not to worry. The AE212 is not that huge in the low end. I have a feeling it'll pair up just fine.
 
#196
:)
GRoberts said:
How much playing time is your Nordy Vp5 getting at any given gig? Do you use it for a full set, or even a full gig? Or just songs that call for the Pbass sound?

Glad to hear the LMII is a great match for your AE212. Not surprised it sounds good. :D
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Never, ever bring two basses to a gig. IMO, every bass can play every song ever written.

With the rounds on the ash/maple P, there is a wide variety of tones in there.

And yes, the LMII/III and AE212 sound fantastic... had the LMII totally flat all night(s)... fat, warm,articulate, and loud as heck
 
#197
Well, my venerable Henry 8x8 sold last night, so, ''by The Constraints of One In, One Out,''
I'm now obligated to buy a replacement cab.

I totally torn between this one, and Roger Baer's 212.
 
#199
KJung said:
IMO, every bass can play every song ever written.
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Not to get OT, but I generally agree with this... except I can see it making a lot of sense for a given player to at least have a fretless and a fretted. I've even run into cases where band leaders will literally specify both for the same show for specific songs.
 
#200
Vic said:
Not to get OT, but I generally agree with this... except I can see it making a lot of sense for a given player to at least have a fretless and a fretted. I've even run into cases where band leaders will literally specify both for the same show for specific songs.
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I agree..And there have been a number of times where I bring both. But, that is only a few times a year where I end up bringing both to a gig. Granted, I probably don't play as many gigs out as some guys. But, unless a fretless is needed for some of the songs. I will only bring one bass. I take what bass fits best for the majority of the songs and run with it.
 

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