Bergantino AE212; Part 2!!

[KJung]

Thanks Ken. I figured something along those lines, like maybe he just hadn't found the right 12" driver that's up to the HS task.

But neo or not, he has to make a HS flavored vertical 212. That's such a cool looking and convenient format. And the way I interpret the tonal differences between the AE410 and HS410, a HS212 has a reason to exist!

Actually, the AE212 is the least aggressive AE, and sits nicely between the HS and AE line of cabs. You might be surprised there. Just like I call the Mesa M6/M9 the 'Mesa amps for guys who don't like Mesa', I'm pretty comfortable saying the 'AE212 is the AE cab for those who don't like the AE line'

 

[esoxhntr]

Actually, the AE212 is the least aggressive AE, and sits nicely between the HS and AE line of cabs.

Gotta agree here - the least "neo" sounding cab I've ever experienced. I honestly prefer it to my HT112/HT112 stack. YMMV of course.

 

[Willem]

I guess with neo you mean the characteristic high mids. I'm actually talking about the tight low end the HS line is known for, while the AE212 still has the wide AE low end if I understand correctly.

 

[KJung]

I guess with neo you mean the characteristic high mids. I'm actually talking about the tight low end the HS line is known for, while the AE212 still has the wide AE low end if I understand correctly.

It is a bit wider and deeper than the HS410, but an HS212 would be also.

 

[esoxhntr]

Here's the bizarre thing, yes it's wider and deeper, but it's still tight. That's the appeal of this cab... for me anyhow.

 

[raymondl3]

Need some input from you Berganites. I've got an Eden 112 and am considering adding another one or maybe ditching it and buying the AE212. I've never played through a Berg so I'd like to know what some of the tonal differences are.
I thought the 2x112 setup would be really portable but considering the dimensions of the AE212, it looks like something I could fit in my sedan's back seat.

 

[Eublet]

I believe that it may be the more even and deeper cab in the AE line, but folks interested in this cab shouldn't assume it's deep and fat sounding. To my ear, it is not fat at all. It's still aggressive and very articulate. It has just enough bottom to be full, and enough bite to let you hear the string noise coming through. In other words, it's fairly modern sounding.

It's definitely not the least neo-sounding cab I've heard. The Genz Uber212 takes the cake there, but it is still fairly articulate also. Even the Genz Neox 212 that I owned and gigged for quite some time was a bit bigger and fatter sounding, with a more overall smooth response. The AE212 has that characteristic upper-mid presence I associate with most neo-loaded cabs. What's impressive about the AE212 is the fullness it has in such a small package. You'd expect a 212 of this size and form factor to be REALLY tight in the lows, but there's plenty down there I think except for those who really want a big bottom.

 

[Eublet]

Need some input from you Berganites. I've got an Eden 112 and am considering adding another one or maybe ditching it and buying the AE212. I've never played through a Berg so I'd like to know what some of the tonal differences are.
I thought the 2x112 setup would be really portable but considering the dimensions of the AE212, it looks like something I could fit in my sedan's back seat.

I owned two 112xlt's at one point, and also a 212xlt. Those two cabs are way different from each other. Even dual 112xlt's are night and day different from the 212xlt. If you like the 112xlt, it's honestly hard for me to recommend anything to you. That cab to me is one of the most bizarre and strange sounding cabs on the market. Very strong mids, almost no low end, with a horn that just sticks out if you turn it up too much because of the lack of bass. I think a lot of fretless guys like the 112xlt. I liked it on top of a 210xst, but by itself it was completely useless for me.

The 212xlt, compared to the AE212, is also night and day different. The 212xlt is fat and pillowy, with a pretty big low-mid push and very tamed upper-mids. The top end is sizzly if you turn the horn up, but still very gentle.

The AE212, by comparison, has the same top end, but the upper-mids are quite present. The low-mids are smoother, which makes the lows sound a bit more present or extended. Side by side, I'm fairly confident that most folks would think the 212xlt was the bigger sounding cabinet of the two. The 212xlt pretty much has THE solo sound IMHO. No EQ required.

In a mix, the 212xlt will start to sound big and fat. It will be "under" the band so to speak. Not muddy or deep, but just right there in the money pocket. I really dig it for that. It can be a bit much in a bad acoustical environment with all those low-mids pushing through. It's also a bit large and heavy. If you dig that sound, I've yet to find a cabinet that does it as well as the 212xlt.

The AE212 has more bite than the 212xlt. It's probably about like the sound of two 112xlt's, except with some low-end added to round out the tone. I like it very much. In a mix, it seems to sit perfectly if I boost low-mids just a touch, and tame the upper-mids ever so slightly. Both EQ's adjustments are very subtle. Perhaps 2db in either direction. Then it just pops. The AE212 can take a beating from a good head it seems.

Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure I'd want it to sound like a 212xlt even if I could make it. It works that well for me. All this combined with the form factor and light weight make it my favorite cabinet I've owned.

 

[raymondl3]

Thanks. I like the 212XLT too. I play a low of 5-string fretless. I played the 212XLT once with a Eden 800 top and I'm pretty sure it's the best sounding cab I've ever played through, but I don't think I could get it in my car. Thanks for the info. On with the thread!

 

[KJung]

Thanks. I like the 212XLT too. I play a low of 5-string fretless. I played the 212XLT once with a Eden 800 top and I'm pretty sure it's the best sounding cab I've ever played through, but I don't think I could get it in my car. Thanks for the info. On with the thread!

+1 to Eublet's posts. The 112XLT is just SO mid present, with such a steep low end roll-off, that it is unique versus virtually any other 112 I've played (and in this case, IMO, unique is not a good thing). I agree the AE212 would still give you the brightness and punch of the little 112XLT, but would be more even and punchy than the very nice 212XLT, which to me is the nicest sounding cab Eden has ever made.

The good news about the AE212 is that a little cut in the upper mids (1K or so) will totally smooth out that top end if you want it more old school. Really exceptional box IMO. I have a bunch of clips of it with various basses and heads on my Youtube channel, if you might find that helpful.

 

[Eublet]

The good news about the AE212 is that a little cut in the upper mids (1K or so) will totally smooth out that top end if you want it more old school.

Agreed. That's what I was trying to say. It won't make the AE212 sound quite as round and full as the 212xlt I don't think, but in a gig context I think the AE212 sits better in the mix. It leans a bit more toward being present and punchy rather than big and pillowy, though it does have a touch of those characteristics. It's a wonderful balance IMO.

 

[raymondl3]

Thanks to KJung and Eublet. Sounds like what I'm going for.

 

[Hollow Man]

Yeah, the AE series (both the 410 and 212) have very strange tone profiles IMO. In other words, to see a verbal description of the 'sound' of the AE cabs, you'd think they sound, well, awful. And soloed at home, they do sound very different than much of what is out there, especially the AE410. In particular, the bass is fairly tight (as opposed to deep and thick), and there is a lot going on in the upper mids. The AE212 is flatter than the AE410, but I wouldn't call it a 'flat' cab in the sense of studio speakers.

However, when you get these cabs in a mix, you immediately understand why Jim designed them the way that he did. Your sound slices right through a mix, the highs are there but never tinny or shrill, and the bass is rich but not boomy or out of control. IMO, the AE cabs really are a genius design, in that on paper, they seem to go against what bass players want, but in execution, they absolutely get the job done.

 

[Musicman20]

It's definitely not the least neo-sounding cab I've heard. The Genz Uber212 takes the cake there, but it is still fairly articulate also. Even the Genz Neox 212 that I owned and gigged for quite some time was a bit bigger and fatter sounding, with a more overall smooth response. The AE212 has that characteristic upper-mid presence I associate with most neo-loaded cabs.

This is a great help, thanks Eublet. I think the Neo x 212T might be more up my street, not knocking the AE212 btw, just a different taste.

 

[Snoopygore71]

Hi Ken,

I have been reading your thread for the 212 avidly. How do you run the MB head into this and your AE410 as the cabs are 4 ohm. I run one lead each from the two ports to a Traveller 102p and SWR Henry Jnr. Is this wrong, can you explain the setup.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Eublet]

Hi Ken,

I have been reading your thread for the 212 avidly. How do you run the MB head into this and your AE410 as the cabs are 4 ohm. I run one lead each from the two ports to a Traveller 102p and SWR Henry Jnr. Is this wrong, can you explain the setup.

Cheers

Steve

The MB heads are minimum 4 ohm loads, so you can only use one cab at a time with any of them.

 

[Snoopygore71]

The MB heads are minimum 4 ohm loads, so you can only use one cab at a time with any of them.

Thanks Jason, so the AE212 just plug into one speaker output at a 4 ohm load. Where I saw previously the AE112 underneath this obviously needed a power amp? I am a bit confused when it comes to this stuff?

Steve

 

[Eublet]

Thanks Jason, so the AE212 just plug into one speaker output at a 4 ohm load. Where I saw previously the AE112 underneath this obviously needed a power amp? I am a bit confused when it comes to this stuff?

Steve

I'm not sure what picture you are referring to, so I can't say. A head that is capable of running at a 2 ohm minimum load can push two 4ohm cabinets simultaneously. so maybe that was happening, or is that where you saw the MB head? Perhaps they were just stacked for looks?

 

[Snoopygore71]

I'm not sure what picture you are referring to, so I can't say. A head that is capable of running at a 2 ohm minimum load can push two 4ohm cabinets simultaneously. so maybe that was happening, or is that where you saw the MB head? Perhaps they were just stacked for looks?

It was Rodneyat on Pg 11 of first forum about the AE212. He is running through an Epifani head and has a MB KMK2 on top.

So you can run the AE212 single on the MB head, cool. Why doesn't Bergantino produce 4 and 8 ohm versions aka other makes?

 

[Eublet]

It was Rodneyat on Pg 11 of first forum about the AE212. He is running through an Epifani head and has a MB KMK2 on top.

So you can run the AE212 single on the MB head, cool. Why doesn't Bergantino produce 4 and 8 ohm versions aka other makes?

I'm not sure specifically why Bergantino doesn't, but generally it's because you have to have whoever build you two different drivers, perhaps an 8 and 4, or an 8 and 16. Either way, it drives up cost. Some manufacturers do this, and some don't. Honestly, when it comes to 410's and 212's, the 4 ohm versions are the most common by far. Most folks don't need two run two large cabs, especially these lightweight cabs. A 4ohm cabinet properly driven by 300-500 watts is typically more than enough power for any "professional" type gig because stage volume is going to be quite a bit more modest than what you might find at your neighborhood garage band.