Bergantino B/Amp at NAMM

[kjones]

Hi guys!

I have a favor to ask! Could you compare the B|Amp tuner to your favorite pedal, clip or stand-alone tuner? I can't get the B|Amp tuner to accurately tune my basses. When it indicates "in-tune" (><), my basses are flat and not in tune string-to-string. Please let me know if you're experiencing the same thing.

BTW, I love this amp! I'm just trying to figure out whether mine has a defect.

Much thanks!
Greg

Greg, I'm certainly not suggesting anything, but just want to mention for everyone else's sake who may not have one that there's a place in the programming pages where you set the fact that you're using a bass, and that you're using 440 as the baseline. I'm assuming you have that all set up correctly.

Not sure I can go much beyond that. When I'm about 15 min before a gig, I tune using the Peterson Strobo app, which I find pretty accurate. During set breaks, I use the built-in tuner for touch ups, and I've never found that method to be a problem in any way. Don't know what else to tell you.

 

[tombowlus]

Hi guys!

I have a favor to ask! Could you compare the B|Amp tuner to your favorite pedal, clip or stand-alone tuner? I can't get the B|Amp tuner to accurately tune my basses. When it indicates "in-tune" (><), my basses are flat and not in tune string-to-string. Please let me know if you're experiencing the same thing.

BTW, I love this amp! I'm just trying to figure out whether mine has a defect.

Much thanks!
Greg

The tuner seems to work well for me, and in fact, it seems to track a low B better/faster than my other tuners.

 

[gregbackstrom]

Greg, I'm certainly not suggesting anything, but just want to mention for everyone else's sake who may not have one that there's a place in the programming pages where you set the fact that you're using a bass, and that you're using 440 as the baseline. I'm assuming you have that all set up correctly.

Not sure I can go much beyond that. When I'm about 15 min before a gig, I tune using the Peterson Strobo app, which I find pretty accurate. During set breaks, I use the built-in tuner for touch ups, and I've never found that method to be a problem in any way. Don't know what else to tell you.

Okay, that's good to know! I'll see if my profile is set up incorrectly.

Thanks!!
Greg

 

[Jim Bergantino]

Greg,

I know you've been in touch with John regarding the tuner. I appreciate your feedback and will be looking into it in the coming week or so to see what may be causing your issues. Although most reports back have been "fast and accurate", I have read here a couple players saying it wasn't accurate enough for their use. I will keep you posted on my findings.

On the firmware front, we hope to be releasing the new overdrive firmware later this month. B|Amp product registration is required to receive software updates that will work properly with your B|Amp. Warranty is extended only to new purchasers, but even owners of used products need to register to get updates. So, please register your B|Amp. To register, go to the product/warranty registration page at:

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Complete all fields. Once registered, we will notify you of any future software changes or upgrades. This way you will always have the latest and "greatest" software for your B|AMP.

In the mean time, we do have version 1.3 available to those who have registered ;-}

This version has the following changes/upgrades to version 1.2, which is the version that was shipped with all the amps to date.

1. Tone Control gains on home screen are now in 0.5db increments instead of 1db increments.

2. Added a new program menu item, "Tone Control Q Select", which now allows you to select between a wide, medium, or narrow Q for the tone control filters. Version 1.2's Q is wide for reference purposes.

3. When saving a bright engage to Mem1 or Mem2 along with tone control settings, it currently only saves whether or not bright is enabled, not the actual frequency and gain. This means it would always load the currently selected bright filter parameters into the DSP with any mem recall, which may or may not have been the ones you intended when saving the settings to one of the mem locations in the first place. In rev 1.3, it will save the frequency and gain of the bright filter at the same time as all the tone filter parameters, allowing you to have two different bright settings in each Mem location for different instruments or tonal preferences.

4. Lowers temperature threshold approx. 10% to engage fan. BTW, it's not uncommon not to have the fan turn on during normal operation.

5. Found and eliminated a software bug in the micro-controller's software library which may have occasionally caused the UI to lock up for some players requiring a power recycle.

6. Eliminate any potential popping noise when Mute is engaged.

You will need a FAT32 formatted thumb drive to install the upgrade into your B|AMP.

If you have any questions, or would like to receive firmware version 1.3, we can be reached at [email protected] (questions) or [email protected] (software Rev 1.3)

Best Regards,

Jim

 

[kjones]

Guys, I can only say that if you thought your amp was great now, when you get the overdrive you will be head-over-heels in love.

 

[gregbackstrom]

Okay, that's good to know! I'll see if my profile is set up incorrectly.

Thanks!
Greg

Hi guys,

Thanks for checking on this issue for me (and, Jim, thanks for looking into it as well). I was able to check the tuner profile settings before going to work today. They're properly set at "440 Hz" and "Bass." It may be that the B|Amp just doesn't like my light gauge strings. In any event, I'm not too concerned about this issue. I have at least a dozen clip, iPhone, pedal and standalone tuners, so this capability isn't critical.

I noticed that my amp's firmware is version 1.1. I'll see if anything changes after updating the amp with version 1.3. I might also do a factory reset to see if that makes a difference.
I'm excited to try the overdrive too!

Best wishes!
Greg

 

[gregbackstrom]

Hi guys,

Thanks for checking on this issue for me (and, Jim, thanks for looking into it as well). I was able to check the tuner profile settings before going to work today. They're properly set at "440 Hz" and "Bass." It may be that the B|Amp just doesn't like my light gauge strings. In any event, I'm not too concerned about this issue. I have at least a dozen clip, iPhone, pedal and standalone tuners, so this capability isn't critical.

I noticed that my amp's firmware is version 1.1. I'll see if anything changes after updating the amp with version 1.3. I might also do a factory reset to see if that makes a difference.
I'm excited to try the overdrive too!

Best wishes!
Greg

Well, what a difference a day makes! Last night, Jim sent me updated firmware with new tuner settings to try. The BAmp tuner works much better, and now matches the result I get with one of my clip tuners. As I told him in my email response, I've had great customer service from Mesa, Genz Benz and other customer-oriented companies. But I've never had an issue addressed so quickly, effectively and conveniently before! It certainly validates the BAmp platform! Thanks for a great product and superior support, Jim!

 

[Jim Bergantino]

Hi Greg,

Thank you for the kind words and earlier email. I'm glad to hear the tuner is tracking much better for you. For those who have emailed us about the new 1.3 software, we should have it ready to go over the weekend and it will be Rev 1.3A. I wanted to hold off as to include the new tuner software and another minor change which eliminates the occasional "popping" sound when engaging the mute function. As Greg has mentioned and experienced first hand, the architecture of the B|AMP allows us to fine tune, improve, add, change, or modify most every aspect of the B|AMP's features and functions within minutes!

Thanks for everyone's support! ;-}

Jim

 

[kulit17]

Hi Greg,

Thank you for the kind words and earlier email. I'm glad to hear the tuner is tracking much better for you. For those who have emailed us about the new 1.3 software, we should have it ready to go over the weekend and it will be Rev 1.3A. I wanted to hold off as to include the new tuner software and another minor change which eliminates the occasional "popping" sound when engaging the mute function. As Greg has mentioned and experienced first hand, the architecture of the B|AMP allows us to fine tune, improve, change, modify, add or even fix most every aspect of the B|AMP within minutes!

Thanks for everyone's support! ;-}

Jim

@Jim Bergantino I registered my amp with the link you gave earlier. Is there a confirmation email saying it went through ok?

 

[Jim Bergantino]

@Jim Bergantino I registered my amp with the link you gave earlier. Is there a confirmation email saying it went through ok?

We're in the process of setting things up, but I know John mentioned he got several amp registrations yesterday. If you don't receive the new firmware by Monday, please don't hesitate to reach out to me at [email protected]

Jim

 

[jthisdell]

As I told him in my email response, I've had great customer service from Mesa, Genz Benz and other customer-oriented companies. But I've never had an issue addressed so quickly, effectively and conveniently before!

Last year I had a problem with an NV115 (turned out to be a little tag left on the speaker that should have been removed during installation) and Jim and Greg at Rocket Music were phenomenal about getting me fixed asap!!

 

[bucephylus]

So, getting back to the speaker profiles; discussing how they sounded to me to be pretty subtle, BSD's feedback was that the profiles are subtle and are used to make your speaker more or less sound like the profile installed. The latter information was new to me. I thought they were intended to optimize the cab according to its profile, as opposed to emulating a different cab.

 

[jfiles]

So, getting back to the speaker profiles; discussing how they sounded to me to be pretty subtle, BSD's feedback was that the profiles are subtle and are used to make your speaker more or less sound like the profile installed. The latter information was new to me. I thought they were intended to optimize the cab according to its profile, as opposed to emulating a different cab.

The profiles are not intended to emulate a speaker cabinet or make it sound like another speaker. This is not a modeling architecture. All speakers when placed in an acoustic space will have some aberrations due to boundary effects and reflections - this is acoustical physics. The profiles are a set of finely tuned equalization filters that work with a specific cabinet in an acoustic space. It's the same concept as using a real-time analyzer w/ noise source and smoothing out a set of studio monitors or PA speakers. You ideally want all of the frequency peaks and valleys as small as possible so the speaker presents a smooth, open and even soundstage.

We have done all of the 'heavy lifting' with the profiles (acoustic analysis of the speaker, acoustic analysis of the speaker in an acoustic space, equalization and written a profile). All you need to do then, is match the profile to the speaker that you have and you can then use your tone controls for tone creation and sculpting your sound - not fixing a speaker or an acoustic problem. Are some of them subtle, yes. This is due to the already inherent accuracy of a Bergantino speaker (i.e. they are very well designed and don't need a ton of correction). Even though some may seem subtle, why not do everything you can to get the best sound you possibly can out of your investment, though. Just my 2-cents. John

 

[Jim Bergantino]

So, getting back to the speaker profiles; discussing how they sounded to me to be pretty subtle, BSD's feedback was that the profiles are subtle and are used to make your speaker more or less sound like the profile installed. The latter information was new to me. I thought they were intended to optimize the cab according to its profile, as opposed to emulating a different cab.

I think you may both be trying to say the same thing, but I can understand why some of the confusion.

To try and explain it another way, the Profiles are very specific speaker eq's designed to make that particular model speaker's response as balanced as possible. This will allow you more of a blank canvas upon which to build your tone without battling any response variations in the speaker and without fighting the boundary effects of which the speaker is placed. The AE212, for instance, will still sound like the AE212, only more balanced. There are no tone controls on any amplifier that can do what the profiles are doing. That's not because the amps are poorly designed, it's because they're designed to be Tone Controls, to sculpt your tone, not eq your speaker. It would be like using a jack hammer to bang in a finish nail. Also, there's no one-size-fits-all even when it comes to designing eq's designated for speakers. Every speaker's needs are different. Different center frequencies and Q's along with various gains to make them flat and balanced. And these specific parameters can only be determined by very specific and accurate acoustic measurements. That is what the profile filters are, and why we made them an integral and important part of the B|AMP's architecture. They may seem subtle, but it's these subtleties that can make a big difference between spending the night tweaking knobs or just playing music. On a typical amp with basic tone controls (especially the shelving type) you could be, for instance, adjusting one tone control to try and increase a certain frequency range, but at the same time reaching into an area that may need cutting, not boosting, and thus the proverbial knob tweaking dance begins. Not to mention the havoc this knob tweaking frenzy places on the FOH if you have selected Post Eq for the DI, and why many sound "engineers" just engage the 80Hz HPF on the bass channel to be done with it!

Also just wanted to mention that the Profile eq's in the B|AMP or post DI altogether, which means the effects of these filters can never go to the FOH. This is very important, as the Profiles are designed to eq the speaker you have on stage connected to the B|AMP, not alter or effect in any potentially negative way your tone on an already presumably balanced PA system out front.

 

[bucephylus]

I think you may both be trying to say the same thing, but I can understand why some of the confusion.

To try and explain it another way, the Profiles are very specific speaker eq's designed to make that particular model speaker's response as balanced as possible. This will allow you more of a blank canvas upon which to build your tone without battling any response variations in the speaker and without fighting the boundary effects of which the speaker is placed. The AE212, for instance, will still sound like the AE212, only more balanced. There are no tone controls on any amplifier that can do what the profiles are doing. That's not because the amps are poorly designed, it's because they're designed to be Tone Controls, to sculpt your tone, not eq your speaker. It would be like using a jack hammer to bang in a finish nail. Also, there's no one-size-fits-all even when it comes to designing eq's designated for speakers. Every speaker's needs are different. Different center frequencies and Q's along with various gains to make them flat and balanced. And these specific parameters can only be determined by very specific and accurate acoustic measurements. That is what the profile filters are, and why we made them a central and important part of the B|AMP's architecture. They may seem subtle, but it's these subtleties that can make a big difference between spending the night tweaking knobs or just playing music. Remember, you could be, for instance, adjusting one tone control to try and increase a certain frequency range, but that same tone control's effect could be reaching into an area that may need cutting, not boosting, and thus the proverbial knob tweaking dance begins. Not to mention the havoc this knob tweaking frenzy places on the FOH if you have selected Post Eq for the DI, and why many sound "engineers" just engage the 80Hz HPF on the bass channel and be done with it!

Just also wanted to mention that the Profile eq's in the B|AMP or post DI altogether, which means the effects of these filters can never go to the FOH. This is very important, as the Profiles are designed to eq the speaker you have on stage, not alter or effect in any potentially negative way your tone on an already presumably balanced PA system out front.

Thanks for setting that question straight, Jim (and John!). That's what I thought.

I do have a specific question about the AE212 for you. I adore that cab to bits; but the one knock about it was that the low end got away from players a little bit. It seemed that the CN212 design addressed that and then the HDN212 just knocks it out of the park. The AE212 behavior for me has not been an issue, partly because an HPF pretty much fixes that "well endowed" low end. However, to get to the point, I was a bit surprised when I loaded the AE212 parameters that my low end actually got even a little bit more robust as opposed to moving towards what I hear in the HDN212. Anyhow, I just upped the HPF to 60 Hz and all was right again. So, I suppose my question is whether you can use the modeling parameters to move the cabs towards some sort of optimum, or are you using the parameters to get the cabs to do what each can do best, taking each cab's character as a given? If that makes sense.

 

[RocketMusic]

He's going for flat from the overall system. Where the speaker has a peak (or peaks), the profile has a corresponding valley (or vallies).

Put the cab (and it's inherent response) together with the corresponding profile, and the result should be flatter sounding than the cab by itself.

 

[RocketMusic]

My experience with the profiles is you usually lose a smidge of volume (because the profile is cutting where the cab has peaks) but you gain a bit of clarity.

 

[Jim Bergantino]

Thanks for setting that question straight, Jim. That's what I thought.

I do have a specific question about the AE212 for you. I adore that cab to bits; but the one knock about it was that the low end got away from players a little bit. It seemed that the CN212 design addressed that and then the HDN212 just knocks it out of the park. The AE212 behavior for me has not been an issue, partly because an HPF pretty much fixes that "well endowed" low end. However, to get to the point, I was a bit surprised when I loaded the AE212 parameters that my low end actually got even a little bit more robust as opposed to moving towards what I hear in the HDN212. Anyhow, I just upped the HPF to 60 Hz and all was right again. So, I suppose my question is whether you can use the modeling parameters to move the cabs towards some sort of optimum, or are you using the parameters to get the cabs to do what each can do best, taking each cab's character as a given? If that makes sense.

What you described is due to the dynamic behavior of the Eminence neo motors (Delta SeriesII) more so than their frequency response. I spent a lot of time designing the AE series primarily due to this inherent behavior of the woofers. The VHPF in the B|AMP, as you have discovered, is very useful in addressing and alleviating these inherent qualities.

 

[kjones]

And just to add my two cents in, the profiles are intentionally subtle, as noted above.

Want to know how to make them obvious? Put in the wrong profile for your speaker, as I did unintentionally one time, and you really can see the difference!

 

[bucephylus]

What you described is due to the dynamic behavior of the Eminence neo motors (Delta SeriesII) more so than their frequency response. I spent a lot of time designing the AE series primarily due to this inherent behavior of the woofers. The VHPF in the B|AMP, as you have discovered, is very useful in addressing and alleviating these inherent qualities.

Thanks Jim. Great gear and lots of us are pretty passionate about it. Have a great weekend!