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Berklee Auditions

#62
hrodbert696 said:
It seems to me that I'm often running across people who studied at Berklee, and hardly ever anyone who graduated from Berklee. It seems like most people either wash out, or leave early to jump on professional opportunities. Knowing from my own institution how important student retention is for finances, it must be nerve-wracking to run the place, but maybe they have a big endowment or something. The ones who actually graduate mostly seem to be music teachers. But that's pure, unscientific, anecdotal impressions.
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To second some of your anecdotal stuff: I'm in Austin for about 2 years now, and was just noticing how many local musicians list Berklee as one of their schools. When talking to one of them, they mentioned that they took 1 online course at some point. It made me wonder if that's a common practice. I find it a little purposefully misleading, but I suppose some of that is my fault for have a preconceived notion about what it means to "study at Berklee."
 
#63
markjazzbassist said:
My experience is the opposite of most here. I have encountered and played in bands with several Berkelee alum/dropouts and their musicianship is average. My experience is they accept anyone to take their money, the person is all to excited to give them their money so they can name drop “I went to berklee” on gigs and during networking opportunities. I’m not impressed at all. Unless my kids were doing classical you can learn the music stuff on your own (like I did) free of charge.
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Some personalities’ aptitudes are better autodidacts than others. Having a teacher has helped me with music in ways I never would have improved on my own whereas the great Frank Zappa learned his theory and composition at his local library.
 
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#64
MrLenny1 said:
Most of the really talented students never finish 4 years
because they cannot afford it. Tuition is ridiculous for a field
that offers little to no work.
I did a few summer sessions & my professor told me "if you want to be a musician
get a day job to support your habit".
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I've seen a few photos on social media over recent years of berklee bass classes. I follow one guy who's really good cause he's in there on a fretless jazz.

Anyways what I noticed is that all the kids have foderas, fender custom shops etc. Which really surprised me. I figured maybe if you were going to study full time you'd invest on a great instrument first....or maybe there's a certain socioeconomic demographic that can afford to be there.
 
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#65
Screenshot_20231222_064053_Chrome.jpg
 
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#66
Snarf said:
I think Berklee has the numbers figured out. They've been washing students out for decades. But they have absolutely no shortage of kids lining up to be first-year students. And their potential to continue to bring in young musicians has only grown with their campus expansion.

I'm a graduate. I play gigs (local only) and teach private students for a living. I could give up the teaching if I really wanted to, but I'd only just be getting by if I did. Although when I think of the other musical projects I could take on if I wasn't teaching and how those could become more rewarding, I go down a planning rabbit hole . . . .

Anyway, many of my friends are also graduates. Some do the same kind of thing I do. Some others are touring for huge international touring artists, both new and legacy. Some became realtors, one became a golf instructor and is raising a huge family, a few are housewives. Some aspire to go full time in music, but need a full time day job to pay back their college loans. One of them (to be fair this guy is an acquaintance only, just did a handful of gigs in the same band) is the drummer for the third or fourth biggest artist in the world.

I think one's path in music is directly tied to personality. I'm a very pragmatic, risk-averse person, with one big exception: not doing music for a living was not an option. So the first and only time I ever went on tour with a band was a pretty bad experience. Van life, even for a week, wasn't for me. I knew that very early on. The musicians that are okay with that lifestyle often start on tour with small bands, meet lots of people on the road, and start to build toward working with bigger and bigger names. But I want a more localized lifestyle. Home most nights, that kind of thing. So I focused on finding "steady" employment in club date bands and local artists that at least some kind of budget, etc.

By the way, just to address the OP, Anthony Vitti is regarded to be one of the absolute best teachers and MENTORS at the school. I didn't study with him when I was there, but many of my friends did, and this was a unanimous sentiment. One thing I made a huge mistake of overlooking was the value of the wisdom of decades of working as a musician that these guys had over me. I was so focused on the theory and the "book learning" aspect of studying there that a lot of the other stuff I should have been learning there was going over my head. Little did I know at the time that fluent soloing over Giant Steps at 320 BPM wasn't how I was going to get work and learn the business of playing music.
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Theres a part in your story that had not occured to me, and that I want to emphasize. It should not be understated the value of someone with your experiences and ability to your community. Music education increases confidence, communication, critical thinking and listening, the ability to work as part of a team, and other benefits that can be applied outside of music. Folks that do not have the financial resources to access Berklee as an institution still benefit from your choice. Don't forget that your influence can be generational, and in ways that don't have anything to do with music. Some of those folks will one day talk about what a great instructor and mentor you were during their journey. Good on you.
 
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#69
Dr. Cheese said:
That is actually not horrible for a private school in Boston, however, going to a public school and working hard has worked for some of the greatest musicians of all time. Nathan East and Marcus Miller come to mind.
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Does seem like a fair chunk of change .
Kinda slim Picking in most fields of "art" , seems to me like the best odds are to get into the production side of things to a make living .

Some really good 2 year colleges to start out at, seems silly to go 4 year
It's most likely your level of motivation and really good dumb luck that's going to make you
 
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#70
I went to Juilliard, although I really wanted to attend Berklee. But I got a full ride at Juilliard, so that’s where I studied. While both schools are quite different, there is some commonality between them, along with other high level music schools. First, you have to REALLY WANT to put in the work at these schools … if you are there for the exposure/connections only, you’re in a world of trouble. Second, you need to park your ego at the door every single day, because there are players who will blow you away every minute. Third, they will not guarantee you any type of music gig after you leave, you need to earn that yourself. And finally, it’s HARD to be successful in these schools, because everyone has crazy skills … you don’t get accepted to these schools with crummy technique, and even if you somehow sneak through the audition process you’ll quickly be buried by most everyone around you. And you’ll be on the street, having spent serious coin and gotten zero for it
 
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#71
A few positive comments about Berklee is the teachers.
I studied part time with John Repucci. His schedule was so loaded
so my lesson was during his lunch time. Very dedicated, and I learned a lot.
Recently studied with a veteran guitar player from Boston, Joe Gatuso, who attended Berklee.
Wow, I was floored by his knowledge & dedication.
 
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#72
The thing about Berklee- and I say this with utmost respect to anyone good enough to get in there - is that a decision to attend Berklee is an enormous bet on a career in music at the expense of just about any other path, yet it is still a higher education investment on par with any private school decision.

It’s not quite fair or accurate to say that Berklee isn’t an accredited higher education institution, but it would be accurate to say that you aren’t going to get any sort of education alongside your music stuff that would be similar to what your might get at, for instance, North Texas or Belmont. Those are world class music schools but if you decide you want to major in accounting instead you can do that there and probably still pursue music at a satisfying level. Also, and I have zero data to support this assertion - I can’t imagine many of your Berklee credits would transfer to another university should you make that choice.

The graduation rate at Berklee is as low as it is because a student’s career prospects aren’t materially improved by actually having a degree, versus finding a network path to employment while there. That said, the education is certainly rigorous and the students are learning intensely, so the longer they are there the better they get. I also venture that many students take the wrong gig early, it doesn’t last forever, and they end up going to college for another degree later - see above.

My point of view here is that I went to the University of Texas on a jazz bass scholarship. I quickly learned that an academic career in music wasn’t what I wanted, but lo and behold there I was at a top tier public university with premier undergraduate programs in just about everything. I majored in finance and have had a great career in consulting and software - but at UT I continued to play in the jazz program as much as I had time to (albeit I did have to compete with major students and they got the better spots mostly). I was also in Austin in the late 80s, where there were endless opportunities to play.

The counterpoint would be that in order to make a go in music, your best move is to put yourself in a situation where you have no other option but to succeed doing that. As a musician that speaks to me. As a parent of one kid in college now and another going in 18 months, that scares the hell out of me.

My path worked out well for me, but I’ll end this post as I began it - Berklee is a super competitive [vocational] program and anyone good enough to get in is sure to have an amazing experience.
 
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#74
I've read lots of banal drivel here, like "I played with a few Berklee grads and they were nothing special", "the good ones never complete their degree", "graduates tend to be music teachers", etc.

Look, do you think a school can make that much of a difference? Of course, having a good teacher as opposed to a bad one is going to be... good, duh?, but are all the good teachers teaching at Berklee, Juillard and nowhere else? And how much do you really need a "good" teacher as opposed to a "competent" one? And how do you separate good teachers from the rest? This also applies to "regular" universities, mind you. Do you really need to join MIT, UC Berkeley, any of the Ivy League unis to become *good* at your specialty? What's wrong with your "ordinary" state school? The whole idea of education (especially across the pond) is kinda skewed by the fact that they are private institutions (for the most part) and they are run like brands, therefore they benefit from a certain "aura" of grandiosity and they do all they can to maintain one.

One can see how success strongly correlates with wealth (not only directly, but also indirectly, eg. better social skills due in part to more confidence). Also, one can see how an elite institution will attract people who are elite before even getting a foot in the door.

What is it that I'm trying to say? At the end of the day, nothing that insightful really. Berklee will certainly be a fine music school, as many others. Graduates there won't necessarily be particularly enlightened in "practical terms" (some people are simply academically oriented, and will make fine music teachers maybe, but not necessarily will this translate to non-academic contexts). Being a student there doesn't necessarily mean you are better than a non-student. Most of all, it's the student who has to put in the effort, the passion and creativity, and no school is going to infuse that into anybody. They can foster growth but that growth has to come from within. Why should one go to one of these schools? Well, if you have the money, and you want to feel part of "Berklee", then by all means go for it and get all you can get from the experience.
 
#75
Dr. Cheese said:
I suspect they are not worried about chops because probably no one without chops would apply. What he said makes me think of what Daryl Jones said about auditioning for Miles Davis. Davis asked Jones to play a blues, I forgot the key. Jones played, and Miles grabbed his hand and said play more simply, Jones started playing again and Miles said stop and play more simply. That was when Miles said he got the gig.

My point is that most huge gigs are particularly not chops showcases, but they take great time, great feel, and the ability to work with the Music Director or conductor.
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Yeah, I know - but if I had a dollar for every story I’ve read written by a bass virtuoso telling everyone to be content playing footballs. Those stories are about as credible as Mark Cuban telling you to figure how to live on ramen noodles and like it. I’ve listened to every note Darryl Jones recorded with Miles and nobody could say that he was playing conservatively.

(I do get that he’s been playing root 8th notes for the Stones the last 20 years, so he gets some cred there.)
 
#76
King Harvest said:
I know a guy who went there. He was in real estate sales very soon after.

I also know a handful of people who went to sister school Boston Conservatory. None of them have careers in music either.
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My sister got her master's in operatic performance from BOCO, and she's a full stack dev now! Though around here, pretty much everyone with a degree in music (no matter how intense) ends up teaching...
 
#77
Altitude said:
Yeah, I know - but if I had a dollar for every story I’ve read written by a bass virtuoso telling everyone to be content playing footballs. Those stories are about as credible as Mark Cuban telling you to figure how to live on ramen noodles and like it. I’ve listened to every note Darryl Jones recorded with Miles and nobody could say that he was playing conservatively.

(I do get that he’s been playing root 8th notes for the Stones the last 20 years, so he gets some cred there.)
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I suspect Miles Davis assumed anybody recommended to him had chops. He probably wanted to know if he could play under control too.
 
#79
PeaveyPlayer said:
But I went for a summer course at the victorwooten workshop some years ago
And it was a blast!
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My son went to Wooten's workshop the past two years and loved it both times. This year he also went to the guitar workshop, and (incoming brag) at the end was given a scholarship to attend Berklee! But likely he's not going there. Nothing at all against Berklee, but he's got other interests too.
 
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