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Double Bass Best quality bass amplification?

#22
drurb said:
I'd say that's correct, clear, eloquent, and to the point! :)
Click to expand...

I think Durb is right on the money. Comparing Acoustic Image, Euphonic Audio, MarkBass, and Phil Jones, at least to me is more about the sound of the preamplifier and the overall size of the unit. Most of us on the DB side of things don't want to lug around a Glockenklang Head so we opt for a smaller unit that sounds good. If you're going for feedback taming features then the Acoustic Image may be your best bet, unless you want to schlep a buffer pre amp with a notch/lo cut filter around to the gig like the rest of us do. It's an essential tool for matching input impedance and controlling feedback. Sometimes you don't need these controls, but boy when you do they can really get rid of problems fast and make the gig a lot less troublesome.

Ric
 
#23
Ric Vice said:
I think Durb is right on the money. Comparing Acoustic Image, Euphonic Audio, MarkBass, and Phil Jones, at least to me is more about the sound of the preamplifier and the overall size of the unit. Most of us on the DB side of things don't want to lug around a Glockenklang Head so we opt for a smaller unit that sounds good. If you're going for feedback taming features then the Acoustic Image may be your best bet, unless you want to schlep a buffer pre amp with a notch/lo cut filter around to the gig like the rest of us do. It's an essential tool for matching input impedance and controlling feedback. Sometimes you don't need these controls, but boy when you do they can really get rid of problems fast and make the gig a lot less troublesome.

Ric
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Thanks. I also find the parametric tone-shaping section of the "standard" EA amps to be quite valuable tools. That along with an fdeck HPF/Pre is my current choice.
 
#24
fingers said:
Just try stuff mentioned here until you find the thing that most closely matches the sound in your head and fits your needs.
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This is advice that sounds reasonable, but turns out to be not very helpful for many.

I was interested in the AI and EA heads and the EA cabs. There was no place in Chicago to try those out. Chicago is a major city, so if it's hard to hear equipment in action here, I suspect that there are lots of other places in the same boat.

I ended up asking the most specific questions I could think of here at talkbass and then taking a leap of faith.
 
#26
Barcza said:
Without your personal taste, what amps are the best in quality, clarity, detailed sound, least noise and hiss? I'm mostly curious other nominees than Walter Woods!
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Looking at the original post, an observation that if we think mic only, this thread might could expand or go a different route. I assume most people are thinking of amplifying a pickup on their DB, but some like Vunz and others are using just a mic into their amp. And I deal w/ both. I admittedly know a lot less about options for higher end mic pre's, power amps and PA-style speakers than about bass amps.
 
#27
dar512 said:
This is advice that sounds reasonable, but turns out to be not very helpful for many.

I was interested in the AI and EA heads and the EA cabs. There was no place in Chicago to try those out. Chicago is a major city, so if it's hard to hear equipment in action here, I suspect that there are lots of other places in the same boat.
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Invalid Link Removed

He sells EA and a bunch of other high end stuff.

www.sonksenstrings.com

He is right across the street and sells AI.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Scott Pazera sells EA and AI and other hight end stuff in Lafayette IN (about 2 hours from Chicago).

Guitar Wanky sells Markbass and SWR.

Point is if you search and are willing to drive a little it is possible. Also a bunch of mail order places will take stuff back within 30 days. I'd hate to spend $1000+ on something based on a recommendation I read on the intraweb.
 
#28
Somehow we've extended the discussion to amps and cabs. That's natural, but the OP asked, "...what amps are the best in quality, clarity, detailed sound, least noise and hiss?" My responses were based on the assumption that he really was asking only about amps. To be sure, if we include cabs, then a list of objective specs is even less useful.
 
#30
fingers said:
Invalid Link Removed

He sells EA and a bunch of other high end stuff.

www.sonksenstrings.com

He is right across the street and sells AI.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Scott Pazera sells EA and AI and other hight end stuff in Lafayette IN (about 2 hours from Chicago).
Click to expand...
At the time I called bass club, they didn't have either the m-line or the micro 300 in stock and weren't planning on getting either.

I knew about Sonksen strings as well, but I think that was also a not in stock situation.

Good tip about Pazera, though. I didn't know about them.

I did buy my stuff from Bob G. who has a good reputation. Fortunately, I'm pretty happy with what I ended up with. But I still maintain that in a lot of areas in the country, it's not going to be easy to go have a listen.
 
#31
My point just is this stuff is too expensive to buy without at least having the option to return it if you are not happy. My understanding is Bob is good and many of the more reputable online shops give you a return option.

I've met more than one player that bought an amp because they thought it was 'the best one' because they were told that and ended up with a less than impressive sound. As we've learned, it's a total picture. Bass, pickup, strings, technique, amp, cab, etc. Not every amp is going to be great for everybody. We can certainly recommend our favorites but the proof is in the pudding.
 
#32
Vunz said:
Although it depends which model you tried, the Glockenklang is absolutely not geared towards electric bass. Have you tried the Acoustic Art line? (Nomen est omen) It doesn't get any better than that! (IMHO etc)

Cheers,
Vincent
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Vunz. While the Glockenklang gear has been embraced by some our Bass Guitar bretheren, it is also very suitable for Double Bass. Pete Palmieri uses a Glockenklang Heart Rock for DB (& doubling), and has favorably commented on it in numerous postings on this forum.

In the final issue of Double Bassist there is discussion of rigs by some pros, and this is what they reported:

- John Goldsby (AKA Chop_1992) uses a Glockenklang Bass Art head. (He also says that for some small gigs he might use a pickup throush a small amp which is extremely portable, but is not specific as to what brand/product.)

- Mark Dresser uses a two channel Walter Woods amplifier.

- Barry Guy uses an Acoustic Image Clarus Series 3.

- Avishai Cohen uses an Aguilar AG 500C.

Jim
 
#34
I'm watching Mingus Live at Montreux as I type this. He was playing through a Sunn combo
on that date. Two things:
1)The tone starts at the bass. A good sounding bass will sound better through a cheap amp than a cheap bass through a nice amp.
2) We're really fortunate in having choices players a generation ago never dreamed of.
 
#36
The weight is a practical aspect, many time is important for me too. Now I decided I keep my GK 150MB combo, for small gigs. I love it's sound. But I looking for another rig for my bigger concert situation, (weight is not an aspect in this situation becouse the stage guy carry my rig exept the bass). So I like to get a very good, loud, clear, warm amp for URB and for EB.
 
#38
Barcza said:
The weight is a practical aspect, many time is important for me too. Now I decided I keep my GK 150MB combo, for small gigs. I love it's sound. But I looking for another rig for my bigger concert situation, (weight is not an aspect in this situation becouse the stage guy carry my rig exept the bass). So I like to get a very good, loud, clear, warm amp for URB and for EB.
Click to expand...

Barcza,
Just so you know I use Walter Woods Amplifiers and find them to have just the right combination of pre amp voicing, power, and size. Something that I've noticed is that amps that have a pre amp voicing that sounds great with Double Bass don't often sound as good with Electric Bass. For lack of a better term I would consider Double Bass e.q. to be more concerned with controlling certain frequency ranges. It's tone controls are focused more on having a "natural sound".
Conversely many of the amps that sound great with Electric Bass
have pre amps to emphasize tone qualities and boost them. This something that may not be desirable for the Double Bass. Since this is the case IMHO the all the amps on the market favor one of the two instruments.
IMHO this puts the amplifier manufactures in a paradox, Unless they built a two channel amp with different pre amp voicings. Even the Walter Woods Electro Acoustic amps don't to that. Walter addressed the problem buy inserting a "Balance" control between the Treble and Bass to shift the emphasis between the highs and lows and a "Vari control to shift the midrange emphasis between low mids and hi mids.
Epifani also addressed this issue with totally different controls on the two pre amp channels. Since this is the case IMHO the all the amps on the market favor one of the two instruments.
Loud and Clear with the Double Bass is also a particularly tough nut to crack. IMHO the louder you play with a stage amplifier the more trouble you will have. It's easier for me to go though the house system with a good mic and use a conservative sized amp on stage, than try push sound from the stage in larger concert venues. Just my opinion though.

Ric
 
#39
Ric Vice said:
Barcza,
Just so you know I use Walter Woods Amplifiers and find them to have just the right combination of pre amp voicing, power, and size. Something that I've noticed is that amps that have a pre amp voicing that sounds great with Double Bass don't often sound as good with Electric Bass. For lack of a better term I would consider Double Bass e.q. to be more concerned with controlling certain frequency ranges. It's tone controls are focused more on having a "natural sound".
Conversely many of the amps that sound great with Electric Bass
have pre amps to emphasize tone qualities and boost them. This something that may not be desirable for the Double Bass. Since this is the case IMHO the all the amps on the market favor one of the two instruments.
IMHO this puts the amplifier manufactures in a paradox, Unless they built a two channel amp with different pre amp voicings. Even the Walter Woods Electro Acoustic amps don't to that. Walter addressed the problem buy inserting a "Balance" control between the Treble and Bass to shift the emphasis between the highs and lows and a "Vari control to shift the midrange emphasis between low mids and hi mids.
Epifani also addressed this issue with totally different controls on the two pre amp channels. Since this is the case IMHO the all the amps on the market favor one of the two instruments.
Loud and Clear with the Double Bass is also a particularly tough nut to crack. IMHO the louder you play with a stage amplifier the more trouble you will have. It's easier for me to go though the house system with a good mic and use a conservative sized amp on stage, than try push sound from the stage in larger concert venues. Just my opinion though.

Ric
Click to expand...

I don't agree that all amps on the market favor one of the two. Within these threads, I have railed against "voiced" pre-amps on a number of occasions. I just don't like that practice and never will. For those who are not familiar with pre-amp voicing, it refers to "building in" a tailored frequency response rather than designing the pre-amp to have a flat response. The Baggs pre-amps, for example, incorporate voicing, others, like fdeck's little gem, do not.

With regard to tone-shaping controls, I agree that some amps are built with controls that are better suited to double-bass or bass guitar. Those amps then, are, indeed, better suited to one or the other. In fact, I would say that most amps would favor one of the two instruments.

I have also remarked in the past how powerful and flexible a tool is the parametric tone-shaping section of the EA iamps. This discussion points to yet another reason that parametric tone-shaping is desirable. Given the ability to vary center-frequency, bandwidth, and relative boost/cut of a number of well-placed bands, such an amplifier need not and does not favor one or the other instrument. Thus, I think the EA amps (and any other amp with such flexible tone-shaping circuitry) are the exception to the rule. So, too, would be amps that have no tone-shaping circuitry. Of course, most of us would not want such an amp.
 
#40
As Always Durb steps in to put things into focus. I would think that we could include both EA and Acoustic Image amplifiers in this group. Alias, the Walter Woods would probably not fit in this category because it has a distinctive lower midrange emphasis. While I like this tone quality, others who prefer the Acoustic Image amps probably do not. With my particular bass and the Realist it sounds stunning.

Ric
 

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