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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#2,702
coyoteboy said:
I wrote about it upthread a good ways. Basicslly I swapped the 6.5s for eminence guitar 6.5s, disconnected the mids and wired for stereo input from the speakons. Seemed a good candidate for a single enclosure wired for stereo due to compact size, crossfired drivers and high vortex efficiency goodness. Though Im no guitar tone expert, it sounds really freaking good. My band's playing the Cal State Fair, and I hope to have this setup ready for the big stage.
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Whoa. I think I missed that.

I wondered, some time back, if a single, two-driver Big-E enclosure (like the 25, 26, or their PA and home-theater counterparts) would work for stereo (I was thinking of running recorded music through one) or if that would mess things up somehow. I think I asked Steve or Tom about it -- don't remember their answer.

Have fun at the fair!
 
#2,703
They are an absolute treat for home stereo.
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After years of letting my stereo lapse (my money went into gear to play music, not to listen to music) I finally realized that I really could afford to upgrade my home audio system, and went with Big E stuff from @lelandcrooks , and it makes for sweet tunes and movies. The BigE stuff is the subwoofer and cabinet above it (left side of pic).
BigE-rig5.jpg
 
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#2,708
Question Guys:
Does the design of these cabinets make them less prone to the problems that can be encountered with placement in less than ideal locations?
I understand the dispersion is fantastic, but that makes me wonder if natural reflection is increased. Many times I'll play places where out of necessity I have to place my cabinet in a bad location (think crammed in a corner). And I get all sorts of goofy wave cancelling/doubling behavior that is near impossible to eq out.
While this technology may not be the cure all for this type of behavior, will they help or hurt in that situation?
 
#2,710
IME, yes.

Added: I wouldn't say it was a _magic bullet_ that will magically make crappy room acoustics sound perfect. But def, these cabs do better in bad situations than conventional cabs, with regard to room modes.
 
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#2,713
redwood said:
Question Guys:
Does the design of these cabinets make them less prone to the problems that can be encountered with placement in less than ideal locations?
I understand the dispersion is fantastic, but that makes me wonder if natural reflection is increased. Many times I'll play places where out of necessity I have to place my cabinet in a bad location (think crammed in a corner). And I get all sorts of goofy wave cancelling/doubling behavior that is near impossible to eq out.
While this technology may not be the cure all for this type of behavior, will they help or hurt in that situation?
Click to expand...

I've found it helpful -- not a cure-all, as you say, but, for me, it's significantly reduced the funky effects of a couple of notoriously bad rooms and stages. I've posted this before, but it bears repeating: One corner on one stage, in particular, I played with everything from my little Markbass CMD 121P combo, to my old 2x12", to a big Ampeg cab and always got the Boom of Doom on a certain note. I could lessen that by scooting the cab off to one side or out from the corner, but the space was tight and it was difficult. When I got my first MAS cab, an earlier 66, having read about all of the MVW phenomena, the first thing I did was stick it in that corner. No boom. Tried it again another night. No boom. Tried scooting the cab around to get the boom and couldn't. It would still sound a little different shoved in the corner vs. out from it, but I didn't have to dread hitting a certain note anymore. (I haven't seen them set the house rig up in that corner in awhile, so maybe they've wised up about that!)

I've only run into trouble with boom I wasn't able to overcome once, last year, playing on a hollow and uninsulated wooden stage that was so flexible it felt like walking on a trampoline. I felt not only every kick drum hit, but every note I played, in my feet. I was playing a 210 Flex Mod that night, using both cabs, and had it set on the floor. No bass in the PA. The sound man later told me that as much of the boom was coming from the bass drum as from me (he also said, with some frustration, that the owners had spent huge $$ on renovating the club but cheap-ed out on the wiring and construction of the stage). EQ helped some, but didn't get rid of it. This was a different boom than the first, as it wasn't note-specific. The gig went fine, overall, but I was frustrated not be able to get the clarity of sound to which I was accustomed.

Things we could have done, in retrospect:
  • elevated the bass drum (Afterward, the tech mentioned that the drummer who'd played there with a big visiting act the night before had done this -- I know that there are adjustable spurs on the front of the kick, but I don't know how this would effect the drummer's setup.)
  • elevated my rig (I actually brought two milkcrates for doing this, but wasn't comfortable setting the two cabs + pre + power on top of them on the flexy, crowded stage.)
  • unplugged the bottom cab
The last is a big "duh", but it didn't occur to me at the time. I could have covered the gig with one cab but, not having been to the club before, I checked it out the previous night. It was an enormous bar -- loud crowd and louder band in a high-ceilinged room. The bass player was using a 410+15 and struggling to be heard with a screaming loud guitar and Animal-channeling drummer. Figured I'd better bring two cabs and a lot of juice! We weren't as loud -- and we didn't have the huge crowd of the touring act :rolleyes: -- so, yeah, one cab would've done it.

My experience has been that the cabs don't change the general character of a room -- a resonant room with a lot of glass will still sound different from a carpeted practice space in the way you'd expect -- but they do seem to smooth out specific weirdnesses. The same room with the "corner of boom" that I mentioned before is notoriously uneven sounding out in the house -- there are spots where the bass disappears. I've walked around it a few times while others have sat-in with my rig and I can still find those spots, but it's like a 10% change in perceived volume instead of a big dropout.

I don't think that a wide-dispersion cab (MVW or otherwise) would necessarily pose a disadvantage in a reflective room, but I haven't tried to test this. A narrow-dispersion cab would, presumably, have more of the sound energy focused in a narrower space. If it's aimed at the most reflective surface in the room, wouldn't you get more sound bouncing back than with a cab that spreads the sound out more? I guess if you aimed it at the least reflective surface in the room, you'd get less. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying, but I don't think I'd seek out a narrow dispersion cab unless it was going to be used exclusively for me to monitor myself and I could aim it right where I wanted. Right now, I can hear myself better and everyone on stage can hear me better. Little to no need to put the bass in the monitors. The sound that gets out into the house is more consistent than before, with and without PA. Guitarists and sound techs who are used to hearing no bass and thinking that's a good thing might need an adjustment period, but I generally find that the overall sound of the band is more clear and that guitarists don't turn up quite as loud because of that.

Stuff like the bouncy stage I played last year, I dunno. The Flex is a cab with deep and percussive bass response. Setting it on top of what amounted to a big, shallow drum probably excited it more than a cab with a weaker bass response would have. Mike has mentioned that some of the cabs benefit from being elevated. I've found it to make a big difference with my 46 -- the bass is too big with that cab when it's set directly on the floor, though, on the plus side, it doesn't get anemic when the cab is elevated. On the other hand, I've never elevated my MAS 112 when I've played it out or felt the need to. Mention has been made, too, of "right-sizing" the cab for the gig -- i.e., if you bring way too much cab for too small a space you could overload a room more easily, perhaps, than with a conventional cab, but the cabs have a pretty broad sweet spot and, while my MAS 112 is too much cab to really get going in my living room, I've not had trouble with this on a gig.

Overall, for me, the performance benefits of the cabs have outweighed any tradeoffs.
 
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#2,716
I don't want to get too much into the acoustic aspects of the MVW waveguide, mostly because I'll screw it up, the interactions are complex and different. The decorrelated output of an MVW cab is less affected by reflective surfaces than conventional cabs. Or rather, less affected to your hearing. Most of the time reflective rooms are an advantage rather than a hindrance in creating the sound field. But it varies considerably, as always in audio. One of the goals that has been achieved is the ability to set up in almost any room and get good sound right out of the box. Of course with tweaking, placement, eq and whatnot it can be improved. But we have yet to find a room we cannot achieve a quality sound with just the cabs, no dsp heroics. It's always more a matter of right sizing the cabs, placement and/or output to create the field.
 
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#2,717
BTW, for other users of MAS cabs with handles on the top (112's, 109's, etc) - I've been using TecPadz from TBer @bucephylus to raise my amp above the handle. Simple, light, love it. No affiliation, just happy user. Link Removed
 
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#2,719
kesslari said:
BTW, for other users of MAS cabs with handles on the top (112's, 109's, etc) - I've been using TecPadz from TBer @bucephylus to raise my amp above the handle. Simple, light, love it. No affiliation, just happy user. Link Removed
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+1 to the love for TecPadz. (And likewise, no affiliation other than being a satisfied customer.)

I use my MAS 112s upright (vertical orientation), but I got one of the isolators to set my micro amp on. One of my fave music accessories of all time.
 
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#2,720
kesslari said:
BTW, for other users of MAS cabs with handles on the top (112's, 109's, etc) - I've been using TecPadz from TBer @bucephylus to raise my amp above the handle. Simple, light, love it. No affiliation, just happy user. Link Removed
Click to expand...

The TecPadz are really great. I especially like the addition of Sorbothane for extremely good vibration isolation. Plus, they easily fit into any case or gig bag. I highly recommend them! :thumbsup:
 
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