• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#501
For me--the MAS112 has plenty of mids. I'm offering the Mo Mids for guys that want closer to the Baer presentation. The fact that the bass doesn't have that bit of extra warmth that the 6" and to a degree the Flex cabs have makes the low to mid balance with the 112 shifted a bit more to the mids. Not as much as Roger's cab, though. The mid switch lowers the xover point and brings the mids up a few db. The 6 mid setup brings it up more.

We're talking about all the cabs as if EQ was not an option. On the 6" cabs I might bring the bass down a bit. Yielding more mids. On the 112 I usually bring the bass up a small amount. These cabs respond really well to eq. BTW---I'm a pizz funk, fusion and R&B guy. With a small amount of EQ the 112 works VERY well as an R&B cab. With a little EQ I can get my 66 to sound very similar to the neutral voicing of the 210Flex. No amount of eq will give the power of the MAS112 but the MAS112 is not just a one trick muscular pony.It does upright incredibly well---muscle cabs don't do upright.About all I did on upright was to bring the mids down a touch---but I do that to varying degrees with all cabs for upright.

BTW----Patent Approved!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: kesslari, wave rider and RAMUSIC
#503
On the Flex 210, what is the reason for orienting the two smaller speakers up top horizontally and offset rather than vertically in-line? Is this for some intentional reason? It seems that keeping them in a line array would be more optimal for projection and in order to keep everything in-phase.

I'm trying to learn, not criticizing!
 
#504
Practicality. We needed space for the switches and the mids are crossed over quite low. If the mids were crossed over as high as most are---maybe you'd notice. It's a compromise, but to be honest--I doubt that I'd hear a difference.
 
#505
Mike Arnopol said:
Practicality. We needed space for the switches and the mids are crossed over quite low. If the mids were crossed over as high as most are---maybe you'd notice. It's a compromise, but to be honest--I doubt that I'd hear a difference.
Click to expand...

Thank you for replying Mike. Can you provide some insight on how your cabinets with the inward-angled baffles work? I know it has something to do with increased projection, but there doesn't seem to be much information in layman's terms about the advantages of such an array. Do you know of any good reading material that details this kind of cabinet design?
 
#509
RAMUSIC said:
Thank you for replying Mike. Can you provide some insight on how your cabinets with the inward-angled baffles work? I know it has something to do with increased projection, but there doesn't seem to be much information in layman's terms about the advantages of such an array. Do you know of any good reading material that details this kind of cabinet design?
Click to expand...

It's known as crossfiring. Common acoustical design principle to increase dispersion. You don't see it too often in backline cabs as the majority of the offerings in the industry have been built on the flat baffle concept. You do see it in PA systems quite a bit where dispersion is a higher priority. In that realm, dollars, watts, and dispersion are tighlty controlled.
 
Last edited:
#510
Coolhandjjl said:
It's known as crossfiring. Common acoustical design principle to increase dispersion. You don't see it too often in backline cabs as the majority of the offerings in the industry have been built on the flat baffle concept. You do see it in PA systems quite a bit where dispersion is a higher priority.
Click to expand...

I know that crossfiring is supposed to help dispersion -- and it makes sense -- but I don't know to what extent. Vertically aligning drivers is supposed to help with dispersion and comb-filtering and, indeed, I've observed exactly that effect with my 212 (all drivers vertically aligned) next to a 410. The "sweet spot" for the 410 is narrower and the sound is more consistent walking around the 212. My 66 is on a different level in regards to dispersion from either. I've listened to it in the wings while others have played through it and the sound is remarkably similar to what you hear standing in front of it. More even in the audience, more clearly heard by people on the other side of the stage. I haven't played another cab that can touch that aspect of its performance. I suspect that the crossfiring helps, but I think that much of the effect is due to the much discussed "vortex," which I kind of understand, but not enough to talk learnedly about it. I am confident in my observation of the above effects, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kesslari
#511
Sure, the inner chambers for crossfired drivers like a 46 are designed differently than for that with a flat baffel driver like a MA112, 110 sub, 109, etc., but MVW is a seperate effect from baffel topology. The 112 uses MVW behind it same as the 46 uses MVW behind those drivers. So MVW does work with either crossfired or flat baffel mounted drivers. There are some discussions on this forum and on the BigE forum that help describe what MVW is and how it produces sound unlike any other method of producing sound. In my laymans terms, it's not a reflex box with a tuned port as there is no damping in the chamber, but it is not rear folded horn either. It is new technology using new shapes and series of chambers to funnel, squish, expand, accelerate, and guide the sound waves from the rear of the driver out to the front of the cab to meet up with the waves coming from the front of the driver all in an engineered and controlled pattern.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: kesslari, billyfalconer and RAMUSIC
#513
Coolhandjjl said:
Sure, the inner chambers for crossfired drivers like a 46 are designed differently than for that with a flat baffel driver like a MA112, 110 sub, 109, etc., but MVW is a seperate effect from baffel topology. The 112 uses MVW behind it same as the 46 uses MVW behind those drivers. So MVW does work with either crossfired or flat baffel mounted drivers. There are some discussions on this forum and on the BigE forum that help describe what MVW is and how it produces sound unlike any other method of producing sound. In my laymans terms, it's not a reflex box with a tuned port as there is no damping in the chamber, but it is not rear folded horn either. It is new technology using new shapes and series of chambers to funnel, squish, expand, accelerate, and guide the sound waves from the rear of the driver out to the front of the cab to meet up with the waves coming from the front of the driver all in an engineered and controlled pattern.
Click to expand...

I thought this was all summed up into one technical term: vortexitude.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kesslari, wave rider, Stephen Regier and 1 other person
#514
Congrats on the patent approval. The fact that it was different enough from existing tech to be awarded it's own patent should silence some of the arguments around what MVW does. Maybe it will make it a little easier to explain it now that it's protected? Time for the special MAS Limited edition "Patent" leather cabs. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: billyfalconer, coyoteboy, kesslari and 1 other person
#516
My MAS112 Arrived yesterday late afternoon. I did a little A/B comparison to my homebuilt kappalite 3015 non lf faital 5" cab.it is definitely the strongest single 12 cab I've ever played through.no fartout at all. The mid switch is subtle.I have to talk to Mike to see which way is on or off I think I can hear the difference but not quite sure. The tiltback handle with my height is just a little bit low but still definitely a good thing.I have gigs tonight and tomorrow night outdoors .I will use my 15/5 tonight and the MAS112 tomorrow it will be a good comparison .the MAS112 definitely has a lot going on this is also considering the 12 will still need to break in a little to open up.one difference is that no matter where you stand around the cab It sounds the same.
 
Last edited:
#520
Ewo said:
Thanks for the report. Yeah, a comparison of the MAS112 to a 15 cab would be interesting...
Click to expand...
I have avoided directly comparing my 1515/66 to my MA48 because they are different animals, and I don't want anyone to think I am implying that the wonderful guy who gave away to the general public his forward thinking design, does not continue to innovate with the new cabs I have yet to hear, but I must say that this vortexitude design is unique and special. I have a 46 now too for easy schlep and small gigs. MarkA's experience with his brother standing by, on the early 2x8 Faital is my continuing experience with the OEM 48. The immediacy of the note attack and dispersion is still magical to me. The fact that I can walk 15 feet behind my cab or anywhere in the club on wireless and the notes hit me with the same clarity and presence as if i was standing 6 feet in front of the cab is incredible. I have previously noted that drummers used to want my cab near them for the coordination of the riddim section and that is no longer an issue. My bass is there for them no matter what the floor plan, stage issues. These guys continue to innovate on their unique concept. With Duke in the mix, how can you go wrong! Last night I went to the high end venue in my area because my younger brother, not a player, but a like minded lover of great blues oriented guitar players bought 4 seats in the fourth row back slightly right of center stage, to Kenny Wayne Shepherd and Los Lonely boys sharing the bill. (strange pairing but oh well). Bear with me I have a point here. Kenny Wayne and the guys were awesome and got repeated standing ovations. His newish bass player, on his latest, back to the blues type album was directly in front of our seats. He played through a super bassman 300, which I own and love. The cab was a Fender 8x10. It was miked to the FOH, but I looked at the modest array and believe I could hear what was coming from the 8x10 too, being like 30 ft from it. He is a great fretless player and plays stand up too. His sound was good but muddy, and playing was great. Los Lonely boys are incredibly talented folks in their 20's? or at most 30's?. But the bass player had two tone tubby 8x10 cabs stacked horizontally powered by a rolling rack of 6 or so power amps under a pre. Could feel it plenty, could hear it articulately hardly. And he played two different high end? 6 strings. Might as well have been cheap knock offs. I started by stuffing my ears with foam earplugs but eventually left my premium seat for the back area. I could not help but think BigE 2x15 backline in the future, or their own 2x10 flex miked if necessary etc.
I hope the word gets out on these with the professional adopters promoting them. For my own sake as a consumer of great shows.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back