My comparison is just between something I am currently playing. I already know the MAS112 Is smoother all around and quite a bit quicker with slap and pop passages .
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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia
- Thread starter kesslari
- Start date
Ok just got through my first set with my MAS112 .it is everything Mike siad it would be .from last nights gig with my 15/5 I had to bring down my level on my gkmb800 fusion this cab does exactly what I was hoping for .the depth and clarity is simply unreal . I dont even have it opened up and have no pa support and outdoors .I am simply in awe of my sound. I dont think I have been this happy playing in a while.oh well set two coming up a little thin lizzy and trower on the list ending this next set with some bonamasa.
Thank you. I'm gratified if folks found it useful.
Mntngrown, I would love to try your 48 if I'm ever in your neck of the woods.
On another note, your post helped clarify something for me. I've referred several times to my 212 Dr. Bass cab in this thread and felt a little weird each time. I don't want to apologize for playing it and I've said that I think it's a good cab, but, as you said, the cabs are "different animals". The 212 happens to be the first “grownup” cab I got when I started playing electric again and happens to be voiced in a way (tight, clear, midrange-rich) that falls more-or-less in line with what feels “right” to me on electric bass. I'm used to it and feel at home playing through it. If I make a comparison between one of Mike's cabs and my 212, it's with that in mind.
In another sense, there is little to compare. In many respects, what the Big E cabs do – even when I have some nit to pick with one – they're doing at a level that my 212 cannot. Take my 2nd gen. 66. It's an outstanding cab and, as Mike said, versatile and responsive to technique and to EQ -- though, to borrow his phrase, perhaps more “romantically voiced” than I'm used to. Still, it goes lower, cleaner than the 212. It goes louder and hits harder. The start and stop of each note is more clearly defined. And it shares two other qualities with the rest of the Big E lineup that, to me, more than anything else, define how I experience them as a player: They're lively, the same way one drum or one guitar feels more lively than another - you hit it and it gives you palpable feedback by hitting back a bit – and open, the same way one cello (or doublebass or ukulele for that matter), even at low volume, will seem to radiate sound from an area bigger than itself while another, even played loudly, sounds boxy and constricted. (This is what I was trying to get at when I said the Big E cabs were the “least boxy” I'd heard, earlier.) “Sounding open” and “feeling lively” aren't the sole province of MVW cabs – there are other excellent cabs out there that can lay claim to those adjectives – but the Big E cabs, more than any others I've heard, exemplify those particular qualities, particularly as one starts to apply some power. The crazy dispersion is a bonus.
In response to Mike's post about “muscle” cabs, the low end of the 112 is so powerful – not bloated or hyped, just “there” in a way I'm not used to – that, I admit, I did have reservations about how it would work in a more subtle (delicate?) mix. (I recently played some bossa nova with a friend who alternated between sax and nylon-string guitar. After playing the 112 at Mike's and thinking, "What a beast!" I got to thinking, “How am I going to play that stuff with this beast?”) I communicated that to Mike. The more I think about it, though, the more it seems like it might do just fine.
I don't know how it comes across, but I do think these are pretty special cabs. And Mike is one of the best guys you could deal with.
Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to spending some more time with my tweaked 66 and looking forward to more field reports of the 112s as much as everyone else!
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Dominick C.
Guest
I had a knock on my door at about 1130 last night. It was a very late, very lost, new fedex driver. I was a bit confused at first, but than I noticed the box behind him. My 46 has arrived, and I didn't even know it had shipped. I could not help it, I unloaded and woke up everyone in the house. Can't wait to really open her up at practice this afternoon. FYI, the 46, it looks super cool between the 45&110.
Last night was one of my best gigs in a while. Just very happy with what I was able to lay down with the MAS112. I was able to lay down what I would call a solid foundation for my band. And in a response to Marka as far as being able to be subtle the MAS112 can do that with no problems , we got a little intimate last night and did drift away, and dock of the bay, acoustic guitars low volume .no problem the cab can do it all.as you can tell from my previous post I am more than happy. We play a variety of tunes from the doobie brothers to james brown.even throw in some serious funk and we pride ourselves on being dynamic. So I had no problem going from a whisper to a roar.
Dominick C.
Guest
Lololol it's awesome Mike! For me the 45/110 needs to be separated, the pole was a nice option. The 46 between the two is just wicked. The rig looks like a robot with the dove cage Monique on top. It fills the room like crazy, even at low low volumes. Visceral lows balance across to crystal clear highs, I really like the singing the 45 does when I hit a harmonic. I've got the 45 running through the crossover in the 110 @-4Db. The 46 is full rage in the middle. Everything just kinda sits together really nicely all the way up until it's gets too loud for my room.
*** updated with a better pic
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Very cool. You can always tell more playing with a group. Sounds like a fun gig!
That's a crazy stack. Seriously, though, are you planning to gig it that way? If everything plays nicely together and balances well the 46 would add a ton of muscle -- and you can run those three cabs at a 4 Ohm load, thanks to the 45/110 crossover. Never thought of that. You mentioned the way the 45 sings on harmonics -- I'll second that. Clear, full, easy to sound.
Serious question for Mike and/or the "Big E guys": when stacking different MVW cabs and running them full-range, are there any cancellation/interference/vortexitude type issues you have to worry about, or can you mix-n-match to your heart's desire, as long as the sensitivity/volume potential of each cab is in the ballpark of the other? (I wouldn't run an 8 Ohm 45 atop an 8 Ohm 46, for example, for obvious reasons.)
MarkA
I asked a similar question regarding MAS112 and MA Essential on the Big E forum.
Horizontal vs. Vertical vs. mixed stacking.
Steve R. Offered some insight on what and how the tone profile may change. Other placement configurations too.
May be worthwhile for you to visit.
I asked a similar question regarding MAS112 and MA Essential on the Big E forum.
Horizontal vs. Vertical vs. mixed stacking.
Steve R. Offered some insight on what and how the tone profile may change. Other placement configurations too.
May be worthwhile for you to visit.
Dominick C.
Guest
The idea was to take the 46 to most gigs, but than I heard them together. I tried all kinds of con figs this morning. The 8ohm45 full range on top of the 8ohm46 is not as full or as powerful feeling as it is running the crossover on the 110. The 46 with the 110 adds thump, but the 46 keeps going when the 110 is running out of room. The 45 and 110 are perfect when they are sharing the load, and better balanced with the -4db switch engaged. The rig is bone crushing. Everywhere in the room a could feel my pants legs and chest responding to the lows. The "ball of sound around my head" I had described in an earlier post has transformed into a cocoon around my whole body. I have had a full band in that room for 6 months without knocking anything off the walls, until this morning practicing on my own. All together the cabs weight about 130#'s. Not the first time I've had to haul that kinda weight, and having it split between the 3 cabs makes it a lot more manageable. Since none are huge they all fit in my Mazda2. It's also not my first 3 cab rig, but it is a lot more manageable.
I liked the 45/110 soooo much, especially separated. I was not the biggest fan of the pole. Took a chance in the 46 sitting nicely, and it does!
Stephen Regier
Commercial User
- Apr 11, 2014
- 78
- 131
- Disclosures
- Co-Inventer and Co-Owner of Big E Loudspeakers Technology
There are two primary factors (other than amp loading) to take into consideration when using multiple MVW loudspeakers whether they are the same model or not.
1. "Don't cross the streams." Keep all the loudspeakers in the same radiating plane. Do not toe them towards or away from each other.
2. Do not position them in such a manner that gaps are present between the radiating (front) area of multiple loudspeakers. Keep the front edges as close to touching as possible. The exception here is top/sub configuration like the 45/110s combo with a pole mount for the 45.
Violation of these rules will result in MVW punishment. There isn't enough EQ on the planet to smooth out the results.
However, abide by these simple rules and one can mix and match MVW loudspeakers with astonishing results. They will couple to each other quite well and with a little experimentation some rather exciting presentations can be achieved.
1. "Don't cross the streams." Keep all the loudspeakers in the same radiating plane. Do not toe them towards or away from each other.
2. Do not position them in such a manner that gaps are present between the radiating (front) area of multiple loudspeakers. Keep the front edges as close to touching as possible. The exception here is top/sub configuration like the 45/110s combo with a pole mount for the 45.
Violation of these rules will result in MVW punishment. There isn't enough EQ on the planet to smooth out the results.
However, abide by these simple rules and one can mix and match MVW loudspeakers with astonishing results. They will couple to each other quite well and with a little experimentation some rather exciting presentations can be achieved.
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,233
- 45,123
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
Interesting. One of my thoughts about running 2x26 was both vertical next to each other toed-in to crossfire in both directions. Guess that's a no?
Stephen Regier
Commercial User
- Apr 11, 2014
- 78
- 131
- Disclosures
- Co-Inventer and Co-Owner of Big E Loudspeakers Technology
I think you might have better success with one on the bottom in a horizontal position and the other on top in the vertical. This should give the dispersion your are seeking. A mild toe in might be tolerated. Try both. See what you get.
Thanks for the pointer. I think I know the thread you're talking about. On a related note, I noticed some interesting differences when Mike stacked the 45 and 25 with the 25 horizontally then vertically. Vertical 25 seemed to tighten things up and -- might be my imagination -- add a bit of punch. Both ways sounded good, but horizontal 45 and vertical 25 was my preference. That was with cabs with identical drivers, though.
Okay, let me see if I've got this straight. Even running full-range, you should be able to mix-n-match cabs with different driver sizes, without detrimental effects, as long as the speakers are kept in the same plane and the cabs are touching or really close. Is that right? How close is really close? Does the inch or so that rubber feet add make a difference?
Sounds more metal if you say, "The Wrath of the Vortex" (Dolph Lundgren, Ricardo Montalban - 1989). Critics panned it, but I loved that movie.
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Don't ask me how I came upon this video. I don't remember. You start clicking links on Youtube...
Phish bass player Mike Gordon gives a good-natured walk-through of his most recent stage setup. Four stacked cabs (2x18, 2x12, another 2x12, and a "tweeter thing" on top), individually EQed and time-delayed so that everything lines up, and a rack full of stuff. Even so, he talks about how the sound changes "off to the side" and how Trey will hear something different than he does. He also mentions that the 2x18 is really there for the "bottom three notes"... he touches on some interesting points re. stage sound vs. FOH and his previous rig, too. The guy's obviously put a ton of time, thought, and money into his setup. Still, listening to his comments, I couldn't help but wonder how he'd like playing through a Flex or the impending 15"-based cabs... or perhaps a special, MVPhish rig. (In part 2 he talks about his pedals and effects -- TBer Ed Hurwitz gets a couple of mentions!)
Along the way to this, I did some listening to Alphonso Johnson -- didn't realize he was such a monster on fretless, or that he played Chapman stick! Some awesome stuff w/Bill Cobham and George Duke.
Phish bass player Mike Gordon gives a good-natured walk-through of his most recent stage setup. Four stacked cabs (2x18, 2x12, another 2x12, and a "tweeter thing" on top), individually EQed and time-delayed so that everything lines up, and a rack full of stuff. Even so, he talks about how the sound changes "off to the side" and how Trey will hear something different than he does. He also mentions that the 2x18 is really there for the "bottom three notes"... he touches on some interesting points re. stage sound vs. FOH and his previous rig, too. The guy's obviously put a ton of time, thought, and money into his setup. Still, listening to his comments, I couldn't help but wonder how he'd like playing through a Flex or the impending 15"-based cabs... or perhaps a special, MVPhish rig. (In part 2 he talks about his pedals and effects -- TBer Ed Hurwitz gets a couple of mentions!)
Along the way to this, I did some listening to Alphonso Johnson -- didn't realize he was such a monster on fretless, or that he played Chapman stick! Some awesome stuff w/Bill Cobham and George Duke.
