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Big E speakers: Pt 2

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+1 I'm looking forward to hanging with Mike a bit on his way back home. :cool: :hyper: :D

Hey Tom,

Mike mentioned he was stopping by your place on the way home - wish I could tag along! Can't believe I heard a piece of gear before you :) but I know you'll be impressed.

OT, but I just got parts in today to start a 12ax7 and 6SL7 pre for my own use. I told Mike I'd send them to him so he can check them out with his own basses; gonna send 'em your way too!
 
Hey Tom,

Mike mentioned he was stopping by your place on the way home - wish I could tag along! Can't believe I heard a piece of gear before you :) but I know you'll be impressed.

OT, but I just got parts in today to start a 12ax7 and 6SL7 pre for my own use. I told Mike I'd send them to him so he can check them out with his own basses; gonna send 'em your way too!

Awesome, thanks! I look forward to it! :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:
 
I had the pleasure of meeting and hanging out with Mike Arnopol earlier today. As a bonus, I was also able to audition two of his cabs, an 8x5 and a 1x10 (with two 6" mids and a sweet tweet):

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That's my Bass Art Classic on top of the 1x10, and this was the first head we used. The BAC is pretty dry and revealing, and it gave a good idea of what each of these cabs were about.

First up, Mike and I did talk a little bit about the technology behind these cabs, but in light of the patent applications still in the works, this discussion was understandably brief and non-revealing of potential trade secrets. One thing is clear; the specific technology employed results in enclosure designs which are more complex to build than more conventional designs.

That being said, the important thing is, how did they sound? In a word: impressive! These two cabs were very distinct from each other, and Mike designed them each with very different goals in mind. The 8x5 is a rich, full, tone machine. I was amazed at how full the low B sounded, and the mids were just about perfect. The 8 silk dome tweeters were on the subtle side, and nicely balanced to the 5" drivers. This cab hit really close to the ideal bass tone in my head, and was tonally very reminiscent of my AudioKinesis TC115 (direct A/B confirmed this similarity). I couldn't help but wonder what this cab might sound like with the Ciare tweeters, which should make the cab just a tad more bright (I think I'd prefer that). I didn't want to stop listening to this cab, but wanted to hear the 1x10 sounded like, so I moved on...

The "1x10" felt and sounded like something far larger. I've never heard that kind of volume out of a "1x10!" Of course, the 6" Faitals help, but they're only handling their share above the crossover point. That 1x10 is doing a lot of work, but seems more than happy to do it. This cab definitely goes deeper than the 8x5, but I felt like the 8x5 was more full in the first harmonic range. The 1x10 is more aggressive, especially in the upper mids, and also has a more present high end, thanks to that Ciare tweeter. I loved the high end out of that thing! The switches on the 1x10 give it some intriguing and very useful flexibility. One switch turns the tweeter on/off, but more than just this, in the off position, the mids get all the signal above the woofer crossover, making it a 2-way cab. In the on position, it's a true 3-way, and the mids are both low and high-passed. This gives you two very different voices to the high end, and with the tweeter off, those mids are well-poised to handle fuzz & overdrive. Very cool! Another switch "arms" a second switch, which lets you change the relationship of the mids to the woofer. The default setting is that the are padded back 3dB. When armed, the switch either lets you run them padded back 6dB, or else not padded at all - which really makes the upper mids pop! The final switch puts the woofer out of phase with the mids. This is a surprisingly versatile control, which yields different results depending on how you have the other switches set up. All in all, the 1x10 struck me as a crazy loud, nicely aggressive cab which you can fine tune in a variety of ways. Very impressive!

Things got really fun when I broke out the Reeves C225. Man, oh, man! These cabs both just LOVED the Reeves. The highs on the 8x5 just really sang with the C225, and the 1x10 took on a bit of roundness to the lows which was very pleasing. I have to mention how incredibly controlled the lows are on both of these cabs. They hit hard, but don't really "bloom." I like JGR's comment about the Big E's displaying the control of a sealed cab, but with the extension of a ported enclosure. But to say it again, either of these cabs with the Reeves C225 was so good, it felt sinful! :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:

We also spent some time playing them through Mike's Puma 900, and this is most definitely a great match for either cab, but especially the 8x5. The cabs definitely showed off what each head was all about, so in that regard, they definitely let the rest of your gear shine through, tonally. I spent most of the time playing my F bass BN5, which is my go to bass for auditioning new gear. Also played an Aguilina Shelby 5-string through them a bit.

I was definitely impressed and intrigued with these cabs. It's obviously too short of an audition to form a real opinion, and the real test is how they perform on the gig, but whatever technology is being used, these cabs showed definite promise! Arrangements are being made with Mike to do a full review or two in BGM. :D

This post is too long already, and I did want to speak mostly about the cabs, but I want to say once again what a pleasure it was to meet Mike. He is just as classy in person as he is here on TB, and the man knows his stuff! Great guy!

I can't wait to get the opportunity spend more time with some of these cabs. :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:
 
Just got back. What a great road trip. Hanging with JGR (and his lovely wife) and having such a great time with Tom. Man---he and I are similar in our bass gear geekiness!
And of course it was great hanging with our daughter.

Well I am SPENT!!

I'll take some time tomorrow to post.

Oh---one more thing---our lawyer gave us the ok to talk about the technology!

more tommorow

Again--many thanks to JGR and Tom for their hospitality
 
Frequency Independent Virtual Compression Labyrinth Horn

The really serious info (drawings,etc) for what's inside will be a bit. But this description is accurate using conventional speaker terminology. What's crazy is the MVW description actually does describe what's going on, just in non speaker talk. It will be retained as the trademark of the design. Plus it's a helluva lot easier to remember.
 
Ok---multiple posts coming for different topics

First--visit to JGR
His preamps are off the charts! Absolutely world class tube but insanely well thought out and functional eq, Taut but warm at the same time with no subsonic junk happening. Beautiful detail.

4 string passive basses setup for rock! Even with the deep switch on and the bass control boosted through 1000 watt amp we weren't diming the speakers. To be honest, if we were doing 5 strings I'm sure we'd be hitting the wall sooner but we were CRAZY loud. I was very happy with how the sound was on both cabs with a lot of saturation. The 85 did surprisingly well but the 110 LOVED the extra grit. The 110 is a bit more focused in the low end than the 85. Adding the saturation would usually tend to muddy the bottom of most cabs but the 110 stayed focused but with a bit more warmth. The Faital mids really liked being pushed to the point of putting a little "hair" on the notes.

I can't wait to try one of his preamps. The quality of construction and components are overkill to the extreme.
 
First I would like to thank all the members for allowing Mike to introduce the MVW technology to the Bass Community. Thank you all for your interest and patience. We will be revealing more insights into the technology as the days go forward as our Utility Patent is now well underway.

The most important aspect for us is: Does our loudspeaker do what it needs to do for you, the player? It is our continued commitment to do so. Keeping the details of our technology under wraps has allowed for many to focus on the end result. The musical extension and output of the cabinet more so than, rather than the technical details of the alignment. Once again thanks for being open minded enough to allow this. Now that it is established that it the MVW alignment works..... Here's a little on how.....

The basic magic is as Leland and Mike posted earlier is rooted in Labyrinth technology. However, the MVW system is not tuned specifically to a frequency but allows wide range to pass and amplify. Obviously the port flare is like horn bell but is more akin to a venturi. We will publish illustrations at the official product launch this summer on Mike's, Duke's, and Leland's forthcoming
websites.
 
I need to get up there and check that stuff out?!

Is this why you've been selling so many great cabs?

The Big E sure aren't hurting the case! My annoying back and shoulder injuries are what really keep telling me to give up on the big cabs but the feel of moving that much air has always told me otherwise. The Big E are truly the first small cabinets that have given me the mix of clean volume and punch that I long for with the added benefit of better dispersion so I see the light. I want to cut it down to the 2x6's, one of the new 210's, and one or two traditional cabs like the JBL 118 Ampeg for good measure.

That said, anyone who wants is welcome to try these suckers out. I've got a basement available not too far off of downtown Dayton to really crank it in if you want.
 
visit to Tom's

Man--it's like being a kid in a candy store--all of the best bass gear on the planet in one place!

I've changed to the Ciare tweets on the 85.The domes sound better on upright but for electric I wanted a bit more zing for electric.. I love the soft domes and to be honest--if you goose them just a bit they are very similar in sound to the Ciares.The crossover point for the tweets is pretty much where your hi frequency knobs on the amps are. Meaning that your treble controls should be very close to affecting only the tweeters.The Ciares are pretty special. You can get an amazing amount of definition and bite and they never seem to get harsh. We're able to get a gentle rise from 10khz up which I think compliments Ebass very well. JGR didn't think that with his passive basses the tweet on the 110 would be contributing anything. It was quite noticeable when it was on or off. Chris Fitzgerald has an 85 to review now with the Ciares.

One thing to mention---when you turn the tweeter off it simultaneously brings the mid drivers up about 2db.The mids go to about 8khz so there's still a lot of high frequency info up there.

The thing that shocked me was the Reeves.
I don't like tube amps with bass.Just my taste. It's why SVT's speaker cabs work so well. They don't have a ton of low low bass. So the tubes don't muddy up the low end.

My usual experience is that a reflex cab (as most are) with strong lows and good extension get too loosey--goosey with tubes. Too wide and diffuse. Loss of pitch and rhythmic info.

Since the Big E design has very strong lows I thought that a tube amp would be a bad combination. Not so with the Reeves. The 85 and 110 both have a lot of lows but I was surprised how they retained their focus with the tubes. They got warmer sounding with the tubes but stayed tight. Turns out I was wrong---at least to me---they work better than many other speakers with tubes. You don't seem to give up the low end definition. Weird thing is that the Reeves seemed to have more detail than the ss amps. One of the best sounds I've heard. What a killin' amp!

so--now I feel that I can say

tubes? Bring 'em on!
 
Mike, a big +1 to the tube amp experience. The thing that surprised me the most when I plugged the SVT into the Big E's was how defined and articulate the low end was. Nothing like I had expected!

...and now back to studying up for that EE degree! :D
 
technology

I'm not a tech guy so please be kind--all of you super smart guys out there

Frequency Independent Virtual Compression Labyrinth Horn

I guess it sounds like more of our descriptive mumbo-jumbo but it's really not.

There are 4 components in the MVW

Driver chamber
Vortex generator
Waveguide
Port flares

Leland will be including drawings on his website to show what the cross section looks like.

The driver chamber is just that.

Out of the driver chamber the sound waves go through a tall narrow aperture. This compresses them. They then go into what we call the vortex generator.This section is very narrow at the aperture.It then grows wider. So--the sound waves are compressed into the V generator. The expansion causes them to accelerate and causes the vortices. As Sea Monkey stated earlier--in conventional reflex designs you don't want 'em.
We're creating them on purpose. This part (the V generator) is the critical part. Tom can chime in, but this is what creates a virtual labyrinth. It functions like a labyrinth but without the length. The interesting thing---when they first were designing it they stopped at this point. It wound up being near perfectly 180 degrees out of phase. They knew they were on to something because it almost completely cancelled out all frequenciesSo they knew they were getting near the same volume out of the V gen. (as I'll now call it). So--how to get it back in phase?

What they did
At the end of the Vgen it shrinks down to a smaller aperture the size of the waveguide. . They then go into the wave guide. The Waveguide does not open as the V gen does. It stays at the aperture width so the sound waves are spinning (vortices) but staying in the compressed state. The aperture leading into the V gen puts them 180 degrees out. The aperture leading into the waveguide puts them another 180 degrees back in. The compressed spinning waves go through the waveguide section and come to the port flares (the part you can completely see from the front). They then expand and accelerate out of the cab.That's the horn part. But this horn obviously isn't big enough to reproduce the low frequencies. It does amplify the movement of the vortices.

Here's the interesting thing.A few that tried the cab said that when using effects or playing double and triple stops that were close together seemed to hang in front of the cab. That's because the sound waves from the vortex and the front of the cone don't reintegrate at the cabinet front. They do from 3 to 8 feet in front of the cabinet--depending on the room. Which is why JGR said that they were louder 8 feet in front. I smaller rooms they can reintegrate further out. At Tom's we were likely not even at the reintegration point. Small room and we were pretty close. In larger rooms it's maybe about 3 feet out.

I'm sure that this will just fuel the naysayers but it does behave like a labyrinth. But a labyrinth that goes this low would be VERY long. This is 8 to 12 inches long but being expanded and contracted again does some crazy things.

It is frequency independent. This is pretty obvious as the measured frequency out of the vortex is pretty much matching the response of the front of the drivers.

If I tried to put as much power as we did at JGR's into eight 5's in a reflex box they would have been unstable at half of the power we put in. The MVW seems to stabilize the cones. We can put WAY more power in and they stay stable WAYYY longer.

Now that Tom's here he can talk about this stuff way better than me.

As I said earlier---I know what's going on (to a degree) but I haven't a clue why.
 
The 110 shown is the prototype. The finished version will have the finished look of the other MAS cabs. The 85 is a pretty small footprint (21"wide by 11" deep) and is plenty loud for the theater.

Also--I got one thing wrong in the description of the innerds.

The Vortex Generator narrows at the end to the width of the waveguide. Small but not as small as the aperture between the driver chamber and the Vgen. It stays that width until the junction of the waveguide and port flare. It then shrinks to the small aperture size to again compress the waves before going to the expansion of the port flares which create the venturi effect as Tom had mentioned.
 
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