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Big E speakers: Pt 2
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
- Status
^No.. I have that covered with my Avatar ^ Alleva Coppolo kbp5 custom sparkle bass above.. dare anyone to top that one!
You DEFINITELY win the 'bling' contest with that one
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
Tom and Steve's idea of "bling" is the military arming switch covers on the 110. I have to admit that their sick sense of humor is starting to rub off on me--I love 'em.
That's good because that's my idea of cab bling too! I believe in the Big E's voodoo enough to want to try the the new 210 under the SVT and 300 Pro. Speaking of, I'm gonna try to put a whoopin' on the 6's later tonight. I'll report back on that as soon as life allows.
Edit: It's late in the 'burbs so I only hit the cabs with a quick spanking. Besides finding out that the 300 Pro stays clean louder than the SVT, I also found out that the Big E's have no problem with a 300w tube amp even run into light to moderate output OD.
Edit: It's late in the 'burbs so I only hit the cabs with a quick spanking. Besides finding out that the 300 Pro stays clean louder than the SVT, I also found out that the Big E's have no problem with a 300w tube amp even run into light to moderate output OD.
Amazing. They can really take the juice! You have a total of 4 6's or 4 5's as I recall.
I hope somebody in my area buys a new design 2x10 so I can go hear it.
I am happier than a hog in mud with what I already have.
I need more gigs to use em on.
Workin on it though.
I hope somebody in my area buys a new design 2x10 so I can go hear it.
I am happier than a hog in mud with what I already have.
I need more gigs to use em on.
Workin on it though.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Yeah, I knew that random buzzword generator program would come in handy some day...
- Jun 29, 2006
- 5,148
- 3,214
- Disclosures
- President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
First off, let me extend my sincere thanks again to Mike - he has a short time to spend down this way visiting family, and he was gracious enough to take a significant chunk of his time and drive three hours round trip in driving rain, plus another two hours here at my place, to afford me the opportunity of hearing these cabs. Mike, it was a pleasure meeting/hanging with you, and I hope you can make it back this way some time. I owe you some crab cakes.
We started off with the 8x5 and it was great to see an example of his finished product - very sharp looking, great fit and finish and attention to detail. I was amazed at how compact this cab was. Very easy schlep, especially with it's shallow depth. Tonally, the 8x5 is very well balanced from top to bottom - very even and smooth sounding for lack of a better description. I started off showing Mike my sealed 15/8's to give him an idea of where I'm coming from, and he thought I might not like this design as much based on my voicing preferences, but I found it very pleasing, musical, and easy to dial in great tones. Though it may be more idealy suited to more refined tones and styles rather than say, my ham-fisted, pick-wielding rock mangling, I got some really great sounds from it, and the top end sounded beautiful even when we pushed the preamps into heavy overdrive and grit. No buzz or harshness, just very smooth and warm. With the right amp, you can get a very versatile array of tones, including warm, smooth, old-school thump. Very cool. I immediately envisioned another one stacked on top - 16x5's - yeah!
Moving on to the prototype MAS 10 - for my style, or lack thereof, this was my favorite. It's absolutely amazing how much volume this cab milks out of a single 10" speaker. Still a pretty compact cabinet, especially for the volume it produces. This one has several different switches which I believe Mike has already talked about here - they do different things to the mid padding, phase, tweeter on/off, etc. There's a lot of different permutations - bottom line was that they were all great sounding and useful - nothing gimmicky- very musical - not an easy feat. Mike said he had a more rock vibe in mind for this cab, and I can confirm that it delivers in spades. I really like the more mid-forward voicings for aggressive pick playing, and the various padding schemes are great for taking it even more old school sounding. As a proud hater of tweeters past, I can say this one sounded great as well - it's amazing how much much detail it adds even playing passive four strings. Definitely something I could actually use. I can see myself spending hours endlessly playing with all the different variations - so many good sounds to be had - but for the plug and play folks, they all sound great so it's easy find your sound and go - it's nothing to be intimidated by.
Now, for the more general observations on the technology itself, and how it translates to the playing experience. Regarding dispersion, both cabs definitely produce a very room-filing, even sound, even off to the sides. I went from the sound lab into the workshop which is separated by a wall consisting of three layers of fire-core drywall with insulation in between, and indeed the way the sound carries is pretty darn impressive.
But being the high-volume rock hack that I am, the thing that impressed me the most was how the sound carried as you moved farther away from the cab. While it does indeed sound great right up in front of the cab, off to the side, etc., what's cool is that the cab is noticeably louder when you get around ~ eight to ten feet out in front of it. Moving farther out yet, the low end doesn't drop off - it (along with the mids and highs) remains full, and the tone stays balanced across the spectrum. How'd they do that??
Even more generally speaking, these cabs sound and respond like sealed cabs, but with the low frequency extension of a ported design. They have a tight, thick, meaty low end that stays coherent even when I goosed the bass control on the preamp with the deep engaged. Add in a little treble to balance, and the tone is still musical and useful. I need to build a tube head to play with these!
Another nod to the technology, which I'm glad Mike pointed out - we set the MAS 10 cab on top of my stool, about two feet off the ground - no loss in the low end, and the subtle tone shift was probably more from having the mids closer to ear level. I've never heard a cab that doesn't get neutered, at least to some degree, when you do this - but this one doesn't.
We purposely bypassed the 35 Hz filter on my QSC to see how they would behave with my preamps, which I've spent a lot of time dialing in, and we were able to get huge, huge sounds with no farting, even at extreme settings with the bass goosed. Very cool. No HPF needed. We were running one side of the QSC into both cabs, so the 8x5 was being fed around 1200 watts, and the MAS 10 was in the 700 range. I thought they handled it extremely well, and the volume they produce is absolutely impressive. We ran them up to their limits, and I can't imagine you would be allowed the play that loud in most gig situations. I freely admit to playing way too loud - I warned Mike before I initially fired up, and I think I got his attention when I hit the first note when we were starting out with my cabs
, so I of course gravitate to something like his MAS 210 or the massive 15 cab he mentioned - most definitely overkill, but thats right up my alley! But either of these cabs with a quality micro would likely fit the bill for most folks.
I'm thankful for getting to experience all the genius of Mike, Duke, and the Big E guys, and it was a positive reminder of all the cool stuff going on with these folks and the other talented designers that have and/or continue to frequent this place. In the end, which ever designs you end up with, as other folks have said, it's a great time to be a bass player!
We started off with the 8x5 and it was great to see an example of his finished product - very sharp looking, great fit and finish and attention to detail. I was amazed at how compact this cab was. Very easy schlep, especially with it's shallow depth. Tonally, the 8x5 is very well balanced from top to bottom - very even and smooth sounding for lack of a better description. I started off showing Mike my sealed 15/8's to give him an idea of where I'm coming from, and he thought I might not like this design as much based on my voicing preferences, but I found it very pleasing, musical, and easy to dial in great tones. Though it may be more idealy suited to more refined tones and styles rather than say, my ham-fisted, pick-wielding rock mangling, I got some really great sounds from it, and the top end sounded beautiful even when we pushed the preamps into heavy overdrive and grit. No buzz or harshness, just very smooth and warm. With the right amp, you can get a very versatile array of tones, including warm, smooth, old-school thump. Very cool. I immediately envisioned another one stacked on top - 16x5's - yeah!
Moving on to the prototype MAS 10 - for my style, or lack thereof, this was my favorite. It's absolutely amazing how much volume this cab milks out of a single 10" speaker. Still a pretty compact cabinet, especially for the volume it produces. This one has several different switches which I believe Mike has already talked about here - they do different things to the mid padding, phase, tweeter on/off, etc. There's a lot of different permutations - bottom line was that they were all great sounding and useful - nothing gimmicky- very musical - not an easy feat. Mike said he had a more rock vibe in mind for this cab, and I can confirm that it delivers in spades. I really like the more mid-forward voicings for aggressive pick playing, and the various padding schemes are great for taking it even more old school sounding. As a proud hater of tweeters past, I can say this one sounded great as well - it's amazing how much much detail it adds even playing passive four strings. Definitely something I could actually use. I can see myself spending hours endlessly playing with all the different variations - so many good sounds to be had - but for the plug and play folks, they all sound great so it's easy find your sound and go - it's nothing to be intimidated by.
Now, for the more general observations on the technology itself, and how it translates to the playing experience. Regarding dispersion, both cabs definitely produce a very room-filing, even sound, even off to the sides. I went from the sound lab into the workshop which is separated by a wall consisting of three layers of fire-core drywall with insulation in between, and indeed the way the sound carries is pretty darn impressive.
But being the high-volume rock hack that I am, the thing that impressed me the most was how the sound carried as you moved farther away from the cab. While it does indeed sound great right up in front of the cab, off to the side, etc., what's cool is that the cab is noticeably louder when you get around ~ eight to ten feet out in front of it. Moving farther out yet, the low end doesn't drop off - it (along with the mids and highs) remains full, and the tone stays balanced across the spectrum. How'd they do that??
Even more generally speaking, these cabs sound and respond like sealed cabs, but with the low frequency extension of a ported design. They have a tight, thick, meaty low end that stays coherent even when I goosed the bass control on the preamp with the deep engaged. Add in a little treble to balance, and the tone is still musical and useful. I need to build a tube head to play with these!
Another nod to the technology, which I'm glad Mike pointed out - we set the MAS 10 cab on top of my stool, about two feet off the ground - no loss in the low end, and the subtle tone shift was probably more from having the mids closer to ear level. I've never heard a cab that doesn't get neutered, at least to some degree, when you do this - but this one doesn't.
We purposely bypassed the 35 Hz filter on my QSC to see how they would behave with my preamps, which I've spent a lot of time dialing in, and we were able to get huge, huge sounds with no farting, even at extreme settings with the bass goosed. Very cool. No HPF needed. We were running one side of the QSC into both cabs, so the 8x5 was being fed around 1200 watts, and the MAS 10 was in the 700 range. I thought they handled it extremely well, and the volume they produce is absolutely impressive. We ran them up to their limits, and I can't imagine you would be allowed the play that loud in most gig situations. I freely admit to playing way too loud - I warned Mike before I initially fired up, and I think I got his attention when I hit the first note when we were starting out with my cabs
, so I of course gravitate to something like his MAS 210 or the massive 15 cab he mentioned - most definitely overkill, but thats right up my alley! But either of these cabs with a quality micro would likely fit the bill for most folks.I'm thankful for getting to experience all the genius of Mike, Duke, and the Big E guys, and it was a positive reminder of all the cool stuff going on with these folks and the other talented designers that have and/or continue to frequent this place. In the end, which ever designs you end up with, as other folks have said, it's a great time to be a bass player!
- Jun 29, 2006
- 5,148
- 3,214
- Disclosures
- President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
Yup, I think once the patents are in and they can share more info, it will become more clear. Definitely NOT BS. Based on what I heard and my conversion with Mike, it's legit, and exciting!
I'm 50/50 on the pick and finger mangling distorted Ricken rock and the delicate finger fingerstyle so I need to work out a budget for the 210.
I've found that my four 6's can keep up with the JBL E155 loaded Ampeg and Faital/Emi loaded Kustom as far as overall volume goes. They take the transients a lot more gracefully. I haven't pushed their low end yet in an A/B but I do think the Ampeg 810 has more to give overall. Oh yeah, the dispersion is much better than any of the big guns.
Size comparison below.
I've found that my four 6's can keep up with the JBL E155 loaded Ampeg and Faital/Emi loaded Kustom as far as overall volume goes. They take the transients a lot more gracefully. I haven't pushed their low end yet in an A/B but I do think the Ampeg 810 has more to give overall. Oh yeah, the dispersion is much better than any of the big guns.
Size comparison below.
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
Keeping credit where credit's due, in reference to the last paragraph of JGR's post, I had nothing to do with the design of Mike's MAS 110 and only made suggestions on crossover component values in the 8x5 - Mike is the one who chose the final values. And the magnificent crossover in the MAS110 - which just leaves me stunned at its elegance - is entirely the work of the Steve, one of the inventors.
Size comparison below.
I need to get up there and check that stuff out?!
Is this why you've been selling so many great cabs?
- Jun 29, 2006
- 5,148
- 3,214
- Disclosures
- President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
Definitely not! - we kept everything throttled back well into the safety zone!
We had plenty of headroom to spare on the amp front - the cabs do a great job of handling power right up to their limits, and with the amazing efficiency, I don't really see any need for mega-watt power (did I just say that?) - a lot of the quality micros out there are probably a great match for these cabs.
That said, I still want to see/hear what a big Big E can do being fed a couple of kW's!
We had plenty of headroom to spare on the amp front - the cabs do a great job of handling power right up to their limits, and with the amazing efficiency, I don't really see any need for mega-watt power (did I just say that?) - a lot of the quality micros out there are probably a great match for these cabs.
That said, I still want to see/hear what a big Big E can do being fed a couple of kW's!
Good to hear!
You definitely sprung to mind when mike first mentioned the 15 based cab.
I want one too, just dont think I can justify it...... for now at least.
You definitely sprung to mind when mike first mentioned the 15 based cab.
I want one too, just dont think I can justify it...... for now at least.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,515
- 19,942
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
+1 I'm looking forward to hanging with Mike a bit on his way back home.
Looking forward to your take too Tom!
Cheers,
Liam
Hey, thanks for posting your impressions, JGR! One more day closer to laying my own ears on one of these...
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