Big E Speakers pt 3

[J.Wolf]

Let's all stop taking the bait. Sea monkey has been doing this kind of thing in threads for a while now. I've been known to take the bait.

Let's face it, no amount of explanation, logic or orientation to reality is going to result in a shift of understanding. Besides, this kind of behavior only calls one thing into question: the integrity of the attacker. So yeah, file under 'low hanging fruit' and move forward.

 

[Arjank]

Again--the skeptics and naysayers have never heard them.

Indeed, I never heard one of those MVW's.

IMO there's one difference between a "regular" horn-reflex and the MVW and that's the inner devider (panel 2). IME such a panel will act as an acoustic low-pass filter, that panel could also have a hole in it of a certain diameter instead of creating a slot opening as seen in the drawings. I even used such a devider 20 years ago in tall bassreflex cabinet to surpress the standing wave inside the cabinet. It can also help to eliminate the standing wave inside a long port if the dimensions are correct.
So, since we have drawings of the innards I can build a 2e version of my piccolo 8, one with a devider panel. See how that compares to the "regular" version.

 

[Arjank]

Let's face it, no amount of explanation, logic or orientation to reality is going to result in a shift of understanding.

?

 

[Arjank]

And from a player's perspective, to an extent the "how" doesn't matter.

That's a totally different matter on what IMO the whole discussion isn't about.

 

[Arjank]

People here love to try to apply "science" to this but there are limits.

Not for mechnical acoustics, how the whole "system" acts can be brought back to a physical "model", it's not quantum physics you know (I like to read a lot about that subject though )

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

I think this applies.

AN ARTIST'S CONCEPT
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER

Buy a cab and test it out in live conditions to make your own conclusions.

 

[Arjank]

unless the theoretical is in fact your end game. And for some here, it apparently is.

If you think that applies to me then you're wrong.

 

[nostatic]

Not for mechnical acoustics, how the whole "system" acts can be brought back to a physical "model", it's not quantum physics you know (I like to read a lot about that subject though )

Not once you involve the player in the equation. The "system" is more than the hardware unless you are going with a narrower definition - e.g. string -> pickup -> preamp -> amp -> speaker. Once you move to either end of that (player's fingers or ears), many bets are off for a variety of reasons.

 

[J.Wolf]

Too bad this is thread is quickly unraveling from being helpful for 99% of the people who would visit: an actual resource for interested players to come and get information on the sound and usability of this equipment from actual users, without wading through pages of conjecture and speculation from non users about how something 'should' work in terms of their own opinions and experience (none of it with the actual gear).

Sorry, normal people of TalkBass ie bass players and working musicians

 

[nostatic]

If you think that applies to me then you're wrong.

Wouldn't be the first time. But since some here love to talk tech and then have zero pointers to any evidence that they actually play and/or gig, I take some opinions with a large grain of salt. Not to say they can't add to the conversation, but for many of us, at some point talk and theory end and the downbeat hits. At that moment, the calculations may end up having little bearing on the outcome. Again, depends on your end game and experience/expertise. No one has all the answers, but in the end all I care about is how my gear performs on a gig and whether or not it helps or hinders me doing my best.

 

[spiritbass]

Too bad this is thread is quickly unraveling from being helpful for 99% of the people who would visit: an actual resource for interested players to come and get information on the sound and usability of this equipment from actual users, without wading through pages of conjecture and speculation from non users about how something 'should' work in terms of their own opinions and experience (none of it with the actual gear).

Sorry, normal people of TalkBass ie bass players and working musicians

+1 Definitely more irritating than anything else...

 

[makohund]

Wouldn't be the first time. But since some here love to talk tech and then have zero pointers to any evidence that they actually play and/or gig, I take some opinions with a large grain of salt. Not to say they can't add to the conversation, but for many of us, at some point talk and theory end and the downbeat hits. At that moment, the calculations may end up having little bearing on the outcome. Again, depends on your end game and experience/expertise. No one has all the answers, but in the end all I care about is how my gear performs on a gig and whether or not it helps or hinders me doing my best.

Perhaps.

Though a little intellectual curiosity isn't a bad thing, whether one intends to make practical use of the answers or not.

No harm in asking how or why something works, regardless of topic. Especially when the answers are unexpected or new... only natural for that to stir further curiosity. Or scepticism. Or a healthy mix of both.

And while experiencing an unexpected result in person may be a cure for scepticism, it does nothing to sate curiosity. In anything, I'd expect it to grow even stronger...

 

[3rdcurve]

Perhaps.



Though a little intellectual curiosity isn't a bad thing, whether one intends to make practical use of the answers or not.



No harm in asking how or why something works, regardless of topic. Especially when the answers are unexpected or new... only natural for that to stir further curiosity. Or scepticism. Or a healthy mix of both.



And while experiencing an unexpected result in person may be a cure for scepticism, it does nothing to sate curiosity. In anything, I'd expect it to grow even stronger...

True, but it would a stretch to call what is going on lately a healthy curiosity. More of a witch hunt I think. I am far from a pro, but as an early adopter of the MVW cabs even my amateur ears noticed something special. More so, it was the feel and response of the cabs that sucked me in. Is there a chart or measurement that can show you how the notes feel under your fingers? I agree with spiritbass and J.wolf, this thread keeps getting mucked up with unhelpful posts by "skeptics" that really have no skin in the game. Seriously, if you are so compelled to keep unwitting bass players from spending their hard earned cash on "snake oil", at least have the stones to make an effort to hear one for yourself. Otherwise, I politely request you stop peeing in our Cheerios.

Edit: That was not directed at you Makohund.

 

[mothra2]

... I politely request you stop peeing in our Cheerios...

eeeewe

 

[makohund]

True, but it would a stretch to call what is going on lately a healthy curiosity. More of a witch hunt I think.

...

Otherwise, I politely request you stop peeing in our Cheerios.

Edit: That was not directed at you Makohund.

No prob, I know what you mean.

I see some healthy skeptics and tech talkers, and don't mind that. everybody can learn from that stuff. And I don't think the Big E guys really mind that either, they expected to get that.

But there's a serial cereal pee-er as well. Cheerios, Wheaties, Corn Flakes, whatever... if it ain't in his wheelhouse, it's gonna get drizzled. I happen to share many viewpoints and play stuff that'd be right at home in his toybox, yet... even I get tired of this particular song & dance.

 

[christw]

*Sigh*

Dear naysayers: I am more than willing to subject my cabinets to scrutiny. Please, PM me if you have proper test equipment and facilities at your disposal and we'll go from there.

Frankly, I bought my Big E's wondering about the validity of the claims. While I haven't quantitatively measured anything, I can tell you qualitatively that they are indeed different from any other set of speakers I have experienced in my lifetime. Whatever you want to call the acoustic phenomenon that goes on with using these cabs doesn't matter to me. But you'll be hard pressed to convince me that my ears are wrong from your PC across the internet without having experienced them yourself.

Again, my challenge is this: If you have the test gear, let's use it. Otherwise it's just another internet pissing contest that I'll excuse myself from.

 

[Arjank]

Again, my challenge is this: If you have the test gear, let's use it. Otherwise it's just another internet pissing contest that I'll excuse myself from.

I don't live nearby..... maybe someone will send a cab instead

 

[christw]

If you were in the CONUS we'd be talking though.

 

[nutdog]

The free online digital version of Bass Gear Magazine #14 (and the free apps) are now live. Link Removed.

but in the end all I care about is how my gear performs on a gig and whether or not it helps or hinders me doing my best.

Nice review, Mr. Bowlus. In regard to the AE210 comparison, can you address the difference (or lack thereof) in the way the flex and the bergs carry the room? Not in their tonal differences but in how their respective tones are maintained throughout the venue. I'm most interested in the idea that the MAS cabs are less susceptible to node problems and sound the same all over.

nostatic, I'd also like to hear your take in comparison to your Baer stack.

Since credentials (or lack thereof) seem to be required, I humbly submit this mediocre camera vid as proof that I am indeed an average musician.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDFHADkGMgk

 

[nostatic]

nostatic, I'd also like to hear your take in comparison to your Baer stack.

I posted earlier in this or one of the previous threads. My comparison was the first or second-generation 46 and most recently the 45/110 combo. My general take is that those MAS cabs have more low-mid push and thickness whereas the Baers are more about mid and upper-mid articulation with some edge (reminiscent of the AE210s, but without the occasional harshness those cabs can get). When I hear/see recordings of the guys who dig Mike's cabs, I get why they dig them, and why they aren't quite my thing as I tend to prefer a bit less low-mid content, and I really like to hear the upper-mids speak. Truth be told with the right head you can eq either cab in either direction but in a perfect world I want my head running flat and getting "my sound" with the eq being used to deal with a room or a bass change.

I haven't tried the Flex, and per Mike the Baer sound can be dialed in, at least fairly close. In part, my feedback helped push Mike a bit in the cab design to give some different colors. I will likely have one of the modular Flexes to test at some point. While I dig the sound of my Baers, no cab is perfect. I'd love to have something with a bit less physical depth (loved the AE210s and the 46 in that regard), and no tolex, and with that mid presence that I like and still enough low end push to get people dancing.