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Biggest jerks in music

#182
two fingers said:
Stuart Hamm and Dave LaRue. I have met dozens of famous musicians. Most of them were either pleasant, or simply didn't have much time to interact. But none were rude.....except those two. It was the same night in fact. They were two of the bassists in the G3 tour. Buses were lined up outside the Venus and a guard rail ran from the buses to the outside wall. Behind the guard rail was their safe zone. Billy Sheehan and Steve Vai not only hung out and shook hands/signed autographs. They jumped the guard rail and stayed out there for a long time.

Stu sat down on the stairs outside the building. As people started cheering and yelling "Stu" he simply flipped them off and lit a cigarette. Dave wasn't much better.

I'm not saying you have to meet with the crowd. But if you aren't going to simply give a wave or a thumbs up as you board the bus and be done with it.
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I get it can be annoying having a crowd of people yelling for your attention and you may be having a bad day. However as you said just a wave with all fingers. Stu flipped off the people who put him on that stage. He forgot who put food on his table and allows him to play bass for a living.
 
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#186
Honch said:
Interesting. Having watched the DVD documentary that came out last year, I can't let go of that I actually agree on everything he says in that documentary. It has something to do that evil twin. Or in the vein of "oh, I don't like this or that band either but I wont say it in public". To tell you the truth, I haven't followed him or his music all that much, not at all really, he was just one of the cogwheels inside Deep Purple, consisting of all alpha-males having a pissing contest. But he stated in interviews some strange things but I can't help but agreeing with him. Like "I don't like people that smiles too much, or laugh all the time". I totally agree with him. And the thing is really that it boils down to this, and it's the same as Gene Simmons said in the same DVD:

Ritchie Blackmore started out playing instruments around 10 years old. 10-11 years old. I did that too. Long before I was interested in chicks. This seems to be a juvenile and childish stance, but Gene Simmons started to play rock, basically, just to get laid, just as the Beatles actually did too. Only Paul McCartney seemed to be fired up by his inner muse and carried on releasing a bunch of material after Beatles died, at least compared to all the others. Both Wings and solo material. I e it seems the Ritchie Blackmore was really first interested in music, and actual playing, and the other things came later on. And that is maybe why he won't suffer any fools gladly. He can't stand the rest of the junkies, posers, and music industry in general. He didn't start out to get just famous. He plays for himself first and foremost, the audience second, and other band members/other musicians, music journalists not at all. Same here.

I couldn't care less about his output with Rainbow, or even think he's so-so on guitar compared to his contemporaries, although he's written legendary riffs. I e I like what he says in interviews way more, than I like any of his music. But I agree, he can come across as a ponce more often than not.

There's a saying within the newer artists, when they meet up their idols, that it is mostly some kind of shtick they put on. They're basically acting nice to any colleague in the business, and puts on a publicity stunt of some sorts. But those who are like that towards musicians in their own bands are totally the jerks. I have some pet peeve jerks too:

1. Keith Jarrett. Yes. That one. He 's to be in top place of all top of ten tops (!?). Nothing tops that guy, in terms of jerk. Period. The undisputed king.
2. Bono. Enough said, no further presentation needed.
3. David Sylvian. Yes. Obscure cult art rock artist, that came to clashes with Robert Fripp even (that one's also another one for you to chew on). Third rate David Bowie wannabe, and very insular to everything and everyone. Even pets.
4. Axl'n'Lars. Already mentioned too many times. They two ought to form a duo. The don of jerk-duos.
5. Jarvis Cooker. Actually anyone that has turned into a junkie (heavy drugs) later on in their carreer turns a jerk and then some. Jaco, anyone? ;)

Brit Awards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

But he has some - later when rehabbed up - mitigating circumstance. Once in an interview of why Pulp had broken up after an album that took long time to make, he looked out of the window and sighed and then answered one of the best things I've heard on heavy drugs, with a counter question:

"Well, it all boils down to that haven't you wondered why there's not anyone saying to you this ever: You have become such a much nicer person since you've started snorting cocaine"? Alluding it all to himself. The interviewer didn't reply, but both laughed embarrassingly.

6. Prince. Yes, I couldn't give a **** that he's passed on. But if there was someone who needed change out his stage name from anything to Ponce its him. The "encounter" with Sinead O'Connor (that's another one too) is the aphex of jerk behaviour. He scolded her for using foul words in interviews, while he himself got away with it in numeruos songs and lyrics. S*xy motherf***cker anyone? Numerous others, contained way much more that Sinead would ever had the imagination to conjure up.
7. Roger Waters. Yes, we had to get one bassist in here. We shouldn't think we could be excluded from this list. Read any interview from the "pink floyd wars years" and make your mind up. It's easy to see who comes out of it the worst. He even said in interview that apart from Bob Dylan, and John Lennon, it's him that's about the only ones worth listening to.
8. Marilyn Manson. Almost on the verge of going into the "where are they now?" files, due to his comments after Columbine school shootings, and has haunted him since then. It could have something to do with point 5 above too, as in turning into a junkie, you get ... worse, as time goes by. Since he used to be a music journalist, he very well knows how to pull a publicity stunt though.
9. Miles Davis. Yes, you probably won't believe this, but even after his sobering up years. Towards bandmates, audience alike. Not that he was reclusive, or silent or shy, and got a reputation through that. Put demands on stage technicians and so on, and whatever, and showed diva behaviour, all of a sudden, when being on the "set" so to speak.
10. Sharon Osbourne. Surprise! But she "is in music", and since the topic was "biggest jerks in music" we can't exclude managers, rec company execs, or producers. Ozzy is humble by comparison, and Sharons holds him in a vice grip.


If I would have my way, I would rather come across in public as a slightly more serious, somber, grumpy, type of guy knowing very well that it's a sort of publicity stunt or shtick. Social gadfly of some sorts. Not a bona fide jerk really. And to my family, fellow musicians behind the stage, or friends being very funny, generous and friendly. Sort of opposite Robin Williams. Who always started to joke as fast as there were more than two people around him. And at home, and deep inside it was something completely else going on.

The opposite of "sad clown". "Glad git" maybe? ;)

Because, one of these things are very much easier to pretend, and that's the glad and happy stuff. You can always pretend a smile. And look happy. Talk happy. Act happy. The other thing is way more harder to put on a stunt about. To pretend.
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I have seen nothing that suggests Miles Davis was a Jerk.
I'm not sure on Keith Jarrett either, from what I've seen. He does have a point with a lot he says.

That said...maybe my understanding of jerk is a bit off...
 
#187
Honch said:
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Late and great Mick Karn, fretless bassist extraordinaire. Just one quote from it "There's no way we could ever work with David [Sylvian] again."
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I'm intrigued too...what happened between sylvian and fripp etc...maybe you have a short version saving us the time and effort of having to read the whole thing? :)
 
#189
cnltb said:
I have seen nothing that suggests Miles Davis was a Jerk.
I'm not sure on Keith Jarrett either, from what I've seen. He does have a point with a lot he says.

That said...maybe my understanding of jerk is a bit off...
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Keith Jarrett? Ok, this then: He stopped a concert once, because he saw a led light "from something" in the dark of the audience. Thinking it was a unsolicit recording, or video cam. After emptying the concert hall, they found out it was something from the FOH mixing desk. He can very well cough, grunt, and make noises with his mouth any louder than anything he plays (and while)on piano, but as fast as anyone in the audience does the same....OUT FROM THE PREMISES! Excavated! And that Umbria rant, festival is legendary by now:



I that ain't a jerk, please educate me.
 
#191
cnltb said:
I'm not sure on Keith Jarrett either, from what I've seen. He does have a point with a lot he says.
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I agree with one of the comments down below: "Wow , Keith really said... nothing in particular in the end." I mean, it all may be awesome at first listen but then when thinking twice about it, it's like a horoscope reading. Yada-yada and not really that original or unique. I may agree though that his music and playing is contrary. But when speaking and being preachy, nothing less but a pretentious egomaniac.

I do think that the playing, music and perception of his audience is coloring when he makes statements in interviews too. Not the other way around. It's important to separate those two apart, really. In my taste, no matter how much he's lauded by accolades and says it's the highest level you can perform music, IMHO I think his music is boring. But that's just taste and nothing else. I don't like to discuss whether green is better than red. Just taste.
 
#192
Honch said:
Keith Jarrett? Ok, this then: He stopped a concert once, because he saw a led light "from something" in the dark of the audience. Thinking it was a unsolicit recording, or video cam. After emptying the concert hall, they found out it was something from the FOH mixing desk. He can very well cough, grunt, and make noises with his mouth any louder than anything he plays (and while)on piano, but as fast as anyone in the audience does the same....OUT FROM THE PREMISES! Excavated! And that Umbria rant, festival is legendary by now:



I that ain't a jerk, please educate me.
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That's not a jerk.
Thats a response to all the jerks regularly destroying concert experiences for other audience members with their phones etc, from someone who has experienced it once or twice too many times and has simply had it.
That's someone making a valid point in a way that even the slow ones may understand.
That the umbria light was from the desk is not that important here, I recon.
As to the noise he makes...really?!
 
#193
Honch said:


I agree with one of the comments down below: "Wow , Keith really said... nothing in particular in the end." I mean, it all may be awesome at first listen but then when thinking twice about it, it's like a horoscope reading. Yada-yada and not really that original or unique. I may agree though that his music and playing is contrary. But when speaking and being preachy, nothing less but a pretentious egomaniac.

I do think that the playing, music and perception of his audience is coloring when he makes statements in interviews too. Not the other way around. It's important to separate those two apart, really. In my taste, no matter how much he's lauded by accolades and says it's the highest level you can perform music, IMHO I think his music is boring. But that's just taste and nothing else. I don't like to discuss whether green is better than red. Just taste.
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I agree, the talk is not all too original and maybe a little preachy-but 'jerk-ish'?
 
#194
cnltb said:
I have seen nothing that suggests Miles Davis was a Jerk.
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Robben Ford

Robben Ford, I quote, so you doesn't have to read it through all:

"How long were you in Miles Davis’s band?
I was with Miles for five and a half months. I left largely because it was no longer fun. Him and his management didn’t treat the band well..."

or read numerous interviews with danish female percussionist Marily Mazur on the internet who claims that Miles could be very provocative. Another question posed at innerviews to longtime keyboardist Adam Holzman starts like this:

"Davis had a reputation for being frustratingly difficult to parse. What was your experience?"

With his - actually - mitigating answer to it all. Now, why do you think such a question turns up in the first place? No smoke without fire. The reputation wasn't out of the blue.

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EDIT: Any one else thinks that Adam Holzman is a Jordan Rudess lookalike? Skip that goatee...
 
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#197
cnltb said:
That the umbria light was from the desk is not that important here, I recon.
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It wasn't the umbria at all. It was another instance. No smoke without fire. If you care to read:

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Chapter: Idiosyncrasies. The don of jerks, by my interpretation of jerk. That he may get "involved" in his playing so much that he dances, sounds off, sings, and whatever, but if anyone in the audience should get equally involved as him, in his music, sounding off, coughing, dancing, singing, he would stop the concert. My advice is very very simple (as well as with the camera, recording rant): Do Not Perform Concerts at all! It sounds as if it comes a totally surprise and shock to him. To everyone else, it's part and parcel, and has been so for decades. Drama Queen, if it's not jerk then. Jerk is a jerk no matter how much "good" music performed. Ginger Baker is another one, already mentioned.
 
#198
Honch said:
It wasn't the umbria at all. It was another instance. No smoke without fire. If you care to read:

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Chapter: Idiosyncrasies. The don of jerks, by my interpretation of jerk. That he may get "involved" in his playing so much that he dances, sounds off, sings, and whatever, but if anyone in the audience should get equally involved as him, in his music, sounding off, coughing, dancing, singing, he would stop the concert. My advice is very very simple (as well as with the camera, recording rant): Do Not Perform Concerts at all! It sounds as if it comes a totally surprise and shock to him. To everyone else, it's part and parcel, and has been so for decades. Drama Queen, if it's not jerk then. Jerk is a jerk no matter how much "good" music performed. Ginger Baker is another one, already mentioned.
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Jarrett; people pay to see him play, knowing full well, that they may hear some grunting and see some spasms on his part.
They do not go see him play to get blinded by camera flashes, their concentration be broken by some conversation, other audience members may be having, and so on.
These disruptions affect the performer as well. That is what he keeps on going on about. The audience is part of the whole thing and has responsibilities as such. One knows that before attending one of his gigs.
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing jerk-ish about this at all - Just taking the whole thing, including the audience , very seriously.
Far from advising him to not perform( quite idiotic that, given he's been doing it for 40+ years, very successfully at that), I'd advise those that don't like it to stay away.
 
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#199
Actually one jerk, or pre-jerk - that has eased down a bit now - was John Fogerty. Believie it or not. But at one gig, the in between numbers speech, and talking soured the gig totally for me when he did his storytelling of "what happened? Well, I got sued ..." and then told the story (not in any song) to the audience. He sort of took the pace and continuum down, and the audience booed and whistled. Sort of "c'mon ...get on with the gig". He just felt the need and urge, to sour the gig with a complete 4-5 minute rant between numbers. A lawsuit that he actually won, but he's the music people that I've seen who hold grudges the worst. Keep that thing out of the public, write a song about it, or write a bitter book about it instead. Don't upset people with it on live shows. Self pitying. But when he carried on with the numbers, his voice, and playing and everything was inspired as ever.

I don't know, but somehow he got that (or someone told him, and made an ultimate offer?), and has eased up in recent years. This was some 10-15 years ago though. In interviews, he couldn't get the foot out of that bucket of crap with his former bandmates, and manager Saul Saentz. He just went on and on... even with his brother Tom that has passed on years ago. Still slaying a person that is not around anymore, and can't defend himself. Just bitter and full of self pitying, including a lawsuit that he actually won. Beats me. Just keep bitterness, and holding grudges out of the public eye. One occassion, may be excusable, but all of the time, for years on end, and on gigs...for f*x sake...
 
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#200
cnltb said:
Jarrett; people pay to see him play, knowing full well, that they may hear some grunting and see some spasms on his part.
They do not go see him play to get blinded by camera flashes, their concentration be broken by some conversation, other audience members may be having, and so on.
These disruptions affect the performer as well. That is what he keeps on going on about. The audience is part of the whole thing and has responsibilities as such. One knows that before attending one of his gigs.
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing jerk-ish about this at all - Just taking the whole thing, including the audience , very seriously.
Far from advising him to not perform( quite idiotic that, given he's been doing it for 40+ years, very successfully at that), I'd advise those that don't like it to stay away.
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And if that doesn't help? AFAIK it hasn't still.
 

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