Biggest mistake a band ever made

[58kites]

Waters, the guy that wrote basically all of the lyrics after Barrett went crazy, and held the band together despite that tragedy said "this is over, I'm done."

Gilmour, who was added as a hired gun after their initial success then was given full member status due to his contributions, said "nah. It's my band now dude."

I don't see how your argument justifies that behavior. Waters didn't either and I'm of the mind to side with him.

I think Roger Waters is great, but Pink Floyd was an okay experimental band that became a great band a year or two after one guy lost his mind and another one was hired.
Their initial success before Gilmour was certainly not going to carry into the 70's without some real substantial musical growth and refinement.
The partnership that Waters and Gilmour had was crucial to their best records no matter who was being difficult, they learned how to polish their material to a Gold and Platinum selling level together, with significant input by Rick Wright also.
David Gilmour was way past a hired guitar player by the time Dark Side of the Moon was released.
His presence and influence in the band seemed evident enough on Atom Heart Mother, Meddle and Obscured By Clouds.
By the end, it was as much Dave's band as it was Roger's.....if Roger chose to bail.
....In My Opinion.

 

[tbz]

I think Roger Waters is great, but Pink Floyd was an okay experimental band that became a great band a year or two after one guy lost his mind and another one was hired.
Their initial success before Gilmour was certainly not going to carry into the 70's without some real substantial musical growth and refinement.
The partnership that Waters and Gilmour had was crucial to their best records no matter who was being difficult, they learned how to polish their material to a Gold and Platinum selling level together, with significant input by Rick Wright also.
David Gilmour was way past a hired guitar player by the time Dark Side of the Moon was released.
His presence and influence in the band seemed evident enough on Atom Heart Mother, Meddle and Obscured By Clouds.
By the end, it was as much Dave's band as it was Roger's.....if Roger chose to bail.
....In My Opinion.

It being his ball as much as Rogers, factually or not, doesn't change the fact that he betrayed a guy that hired him, and then accepted him as a partner, because he couldn't get a handle on his *own* ego.

Not a classy move regardless of how you spin it.

 

[Papalampraina]

I think Roger Waters is great, but Pink Floyd was an okay experimental band that became a great band a year or two after one guy lost his mind and another one was hired.
Their initial success before Gilmour was certainly not going to carry into the 70's without some real substantial musical growth and refinement.
The partnership that Waters and Gilmour had was crucial to their best records no matter who was being difficult, they learned how to polish their material to a Gold and Platinum selling level together, with significant input by Rick Wright also.
David Gilmour was way past a hired guitar player by the time Dark Side of the Moon was released.
His presence and influence in the band seemed evident enough on Atom Heart Mother, Meddle and Obscured By Clouds.
By the end, it was as much Dave's band as it was Roger's.....if Roger chose to bail.
....In My Opinion.

Surely you can't mean this. Gilmor(e) was an overglorified employee who mutinied and back-stabbed his boss.

 

[58kites]

Your exact quote was:

"I don't argue that the Kiss audience loves them and still listens to their records, and I understand why."

It speaks for itself.

Their audience was factually composed of adults for their first 3-4 albums before they were even marketed towards kids.

So....yeah. I guess you can contradict yourself or claim that's not what you said.

It may speak for itself ...but with no contradiction.
I don't argue that the Kiss audience loves them and still listens to their records, and I understand why
...because I still listen to some records I liked when I was ten.
Why are you confused about this?

This does not make some old Monkees or Paul Revere and the Raiders albums good records by good bands who made their own good music as a band, it makes it kid stuff that an adult might still like for the sake of nostalgia.
In 1974 & 75 I worked at a music store that sold and shipped more records than any other single record store in all of the state of New York.
I worked there during the time the first four Kiss records came out and the kids that came in to buy those records were 10-12 year old boys primarily.
This was exactly the audience Bill Aucoin their manager was directing their efforts towards, and in my opinion it is kiddie music just like Justin Beiber, and the Monkees and the New Kids on the Block and Paul Revere and the Raiders.

 

[58kites]

TBZ- I am pretty sure the spin is coming from you.
Plenty of people here have followed the history of Pink Floyd as you have.
It does not make your opinions more valid than everyone else here.
You have opinions.... and you know what opinions are like?...and how they smell, right?

Surely you can't mean this. Gilmor(e) was an over-glorified employee who mutinied and back-stabbed his boss.

LOL Good One!!

 

[JimmyM]

Surely you can't mean this. Gilmor(e) was an overglorified employee who mutinied and back-stabbed his boss.

A gross over-simplification.

 

[Papalampraina]

A gross over-simplification.

My opinion is grossly underrated and oversimplified anyway.

 

[George1962]

Wow!!! Can we all just get along!

Pink Floyd is overrated anyway.

 

[Rocker949]

The fact that a jealous Don Brewer and tag along Mel, tricked and kicked Mark Farner out of Grand Funk Railroad. Farner WAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE Grand Funk. I saw Grand Funk revisited last year. They were really boring. It was the Don Brewer show and that's it. Mel was just kinda there but Brewer was like HEY LOOK AT ME... pathetic how transparent it all was.

Amen.

 

[tbz]

Surely you can't mean this. Gilmor(e) was an overglorified employee who mutinied and back-stabbed his boss.

He was an employee, that was promoted to a full partner.

He then back stabbed the person who hired him, and made him a partner.

I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point since you clearly have a problem accepting what transpired.

Weird how marketing does that to folks that don't go beneath the surface.

 

[tbz]

TBZ- I am pretty sure the spin is coming from you.
Plenty of people here have followed the history of Pink Floyd as you have.
It does not make your opinions more valid than everyone else here.
You have opinions.... and you know what opinions are like?...and how they smell, right?

LOL Good One!!

Actually the spin came from the label that signed Floyd post Waters and then sunk a bunch of money into them. They were and are far more invested in maintaining the facade that it wasn't a dicey move, than I am.

I'm just clearing that stuff up. Kind of the opposite of spin really.

 

[Papalampraina]

He was an employee, that was promoted to a full partner.

He then back stabbed the person who hired him, and made him a partner.

I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point since you clearly have a problem accepting what transpired.

Weird how marketing does that to folks that don't go beneath the surface.

Can you please find me a source where it says that Gilmour was an employee, because everywhere I looked it says "fifth member". And even if he was an employee, by 1984 he was a full time member, who wanted to keep Pink Floyd alive.

 

[tbz]

Can you please find me a source where it says that Gilmour was an employee, because everywhere I looked it says "fifth member". And even if he was an employee, by 1984 he was a full time member, who wanted to keep Pink Floyd alive.

I'll dig through some bios and get back to you.

Paper work wise it veers towards "basically impossible" for someone to join a band that's making money, has a management and record deal, and is already famous and working, as a full member from day 1.

Unless their record company's deal was with their management, and/or didn't have band member names or restrictions on personnel (any "essential member" clauses.)

They had fairly bright management at the time so I don't see it happening. But I'll pull a quote when I get a chance.

Either way, he was given a really great opportunity, and decided to fight and argue with the main other creative force in the band. Until they split and he took over.

Not classy.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

wow, this whole Pink Floyd thing just keeps churning, amazing

 

[JimmyM]

He was an employee, that was promoted to a full partner.

He then back stabbed the person who hired him, and made him a partner.

I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point since you clearly have a problem accepting what transpired.

Weird how marketing does that to folks that don't go beneath the surface.

Sorry, but that is just plain inaccurate. The only one who was back-stabbing was Roger, who sued trying to prevent the rest from using the name Pink Floyd after he quit. Notice that I said that Roger quit. He was not back-stabbed. He walked away. Even Roger admits nowadays that he was wrong to sue them because he quit.

 

[tbz]

Sorry, but that is just plain inaccurate. The only one who was back-stabbing was Roger, who sued trying to prevent the rest from using the name Pink Floyd after he quit. Notice that I said that Roger quit. He was not back-stabbed. He walked away. Even Roger admits nowadays that he was wrong.

He sued trying to prevent them from using the name because he felt it was his band. Since he was the primary song writer. He's quoted as saying that at the time, and said repeatedly in period interviews that he felt them incapable of making an album without him.

He's mellowed with age and is more than willing to admit fault now. Especially since the public perspective was heavily against him.

 

[JimmyM]

He sued trying to prevent them from using the name because he felt it was his band. Since he was the primary song writer. He's quoted as saying that at the time, and said repeatedly in period interviews that he felt them incapable of making an album without him.

He's mellowed with age and is more than willing to admit fault now. Especially since the public perspective was heavily against him.

Well then he wasn't back-stabbed by Gilmour, was he?

 

[tbz]

Well then he wasn't back-stabbed by Gilmour, was he?

I'll pull the period quotes where he says he felt he was.

If David had your level of professionalism though they'd still be a touring act today. He would have buried all of that tension.

He didn't.

That's my gripe.

 

[tbz]

Can you please find me a source where it says that Gilmour was an employee, because everywhere I looked it says "fifth member". And even if he was an employee, by 1984 he was a full time member, who wanted to keep Pink Floyd alive.

Here's the first one I could find.

Sorry to have to link it like this but Amazon doesn't like me cutting and pasting from books. Quote should pop up.

It basically says he was added on at 30# a week. That reads as an employee as opposed to a partner but it's possible they were all just pulling salaries then.

Some bands do before they make real income from touring or sales. That being said, they already had a few hits.....so I'd assume a full member would get a share of that money. But. That's just an assumption.


Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd

 

[Papalampraina]

Here's the first one I could find.

Sorry to have to link it like this but Amazon doesn't like me cutting and pasting from books. Quote should pop up.

It basically says he was added on at 30# a week. That reads as an employee as opposed to a partner but it's possible they were all just pulling salaries then.

Some bands do before they make real income from touring or sales. That being said, they already had a few hits.....so I'd assume a full member would get a share of that money. But. That's just an assumption.


Comfortably Numb: The Inside Story of Pink Floyd

I'm 3 hours ahead and I work in the morning, so when you find an accurate source about your claim, please share it with me. If I'm wrong on the subject, I will definitely admit it and go on with my life. After all, their creations as Pink Floyd are what shaped me, not their fights or wives or whatever.