Biggest mistake a band ever made

[40Hz]

Disagree. Frank was super-prolific. The problem with super-prolific people that actually show all their work is that they are not all gems. But there's great Zappa stuff from every period as far as I know. And I do find many of his lyrics funny. "Let's Make the Water Turn Black" from the 60s is great, but "I Come From Nowhere" in 1983 or whatever is even better. That is progress, which I like to see.

For an opposite perspective to yours, there's the Captain Beefheart camp. My understanding is that Captain Beefheart had the REAL sarcastic, condescending misanthropic personality, and he couldn't work with Frank anymore because Frank was such a pop-star user-friendly sellout!

You can isolate parts out from each other. But your reputation is mostly built on the entire thing you do.

I think Frank's sheer musical brilliance allows people to overlook a lot of his antics. But it's those antics that take away from what would have otherwise been considered unquestionable genius if they were absent.

I won't comment much on Beefheart. Met the man. Did not like him. At all. One of the very few people I ever met I would have gladly punched in the mouth.

 

[southpaw723]

Badfinger having Stan Polley as their manager. He held money from them and was an awful person. Pete Ham committed suicide because he couldn't take it anymore . Tom Evans committed suicide in the early 80's. It's a real shame because they were a great band.

 

[Ironbar]

Rush just wasn't the same after dumping John Rutsey.

 

[Kragnorak]

OK, here's my contribution. In my opinion, the biggest mistakes a band could make are those that compromise or taint the band's legacy by stripping it of integrity. Examples:

• Led Zeppelin should have just covered "Killing Floor" and given credit to Howlin' Wolf. Instead they added a sexual verse that had nothing to do with the lyrical theme, just so they could change the name and get more copyright dollars. It was a prick move, and a shame considering that the Lemon Song was a fantastic musical interpretation.

• Some bands abuse Pro Tools and use it like an Excel spreadsheet. By that I mean, they will take a hit song, and then trace over each part with similar parts until they get a carbon copy hit. Nickelback is most infamous for that, and it is the most legitimate reason for the backlash they get. 311 revealed in an interview that they used this technique for the cover of The Cure's "Love Song". They literally dumped the original song into Pro Tools, and then each band member copied over their part. That to me is not a true cover song, which is an interpretation of someone else's work. This is more like putting tracing paper over a painting, and then producing a copy.

• Ruining a band's image as family with trashtalk about ex-members. Like drummer Charlie Benante falsely claiming that he recorded Dan Spitz's leads on early Anthrax albums.

• Re-releasing or re-recording an album after redubbing a band member's parts, just to screw them over. Marty Friedman's guitar solos on Megadeth's 'Rust in Peace' were brilliant. They were also Chris Poland's ideas. A writing credit would have been the honorable course. Or like when Ozzy allowed Sharon to hire a scrub to re-do Bob Daisley's bass parts for 2002 album reissues, just to screw him out of money. These kind of cloak-and-dagger maneuvers tend to come to light anyway, and they always make the powerful members in bands look like heinous people.

 

[Kragnorak]

I think Frank's sheer musical brilliance allows people to overlook a lot of his antics. But it's those antics that take away from what would have otherwise been considered unquestionable genius if they were absent.

This reminds me, a girl in college told me her father's proudest moment in life was being in the front row at a Zappa show and being spat upon by Frank. Obviously that antic would have taken away from the performance for most people, yet this fellow wore the disgusting spittle as a badge of honor (hopefully not for too long!). So there's a weird perspective for ya...

I won't comment much on Beefheart. Met the man. Did not like him. At all. One of the very few people I ever met I would have gladly punched in the mouth.

Then you understood the comparison perfectly I love the song 'Brickbats', but when he was throwing them at Frank, it reflected more on him than the target.

 

[Kragnorak]

Rush just wasn't the same after dumping John Rutsey.

Metallica sold out the moment they botched their original lineup. Imagine the success they would've had with Ron McGovney on bass!

 

[Velofixer]

Three members of the Clash listening to a toxic manager and canning Mick Jones--who, Strummer later admitted was the one in the band who could hear an arrangement of a song in his head and write it down or play it out.

 

[JMacBass65]

wow, this whole Pink Floyd thing just keeps churning, amazing

Yeah, amazing how boring AF it is.

 

[tbz]

Oh, and regarding the handing of the reins of Pink Floyd to Waters by their management....that's a complete falsehood. Their management bailed on Floyd and represented Syd as a solo artist instead, and Floyd got new management.

Eventually yes.

But during the transition Roger was the one that became the band leader.

I feel like you're quoting from Wikipedia or something else similarly easily accessible, but generally misleading that summarizes what happened but does not have a detailed timeline.

Bios tend to have substantially more detail as to how that went down than Wikipedia.

Btw did I say he was terrible?

Pretty sure my point was that Roger was villianized for having his band STOLEN from him for years. Which isn't fair, and honestly doesn't make sense.

I don't think that perspective takes David's bad behavior into account, which was a factor.

 

[NecroticImbecil]

Biggest musician mistake? Billy Squier deciding to shoot a dance video.


Biggest one ever.

David Coverdale firing everyone who made Whitesnake awesome and replacing them with professional replacement players. And he turned Neil Murray boring.

Murray was good in Sabbath during an era that wasn't big commercially but put out some great tunes. Sacking Ozzy was good for everybody. Even Ozzy.

 

[TheCouchBassist]

As a HUGE Zeppelin and Queen fan:
1. Jimmy's descent into heroin (see 1977 tour of America)
2. Freddie's "Village People" mustache
3. Hot Space
4. Hats off to Roy Harper (arguably the only bad song in Zep's entire catalog)

I forgot my biggest bad mistake.
The fact that Jonesy started focusing so much more on keyboards.
Don't get me wrong, things like (see below) are amazing, but LZ II is right up there with Abbey Road as rock bass master class.

• No Quarter
• In the Light
• Trampled Under Foot

 

[prowla]

Badfinger having Stan Polley as their manager. He held money from them and was an awful person. Pete Ham committed suicide because he couldn't take it anymore . Tom Evans committed suicide in the early 80's. It's a real shame because they were a great band.

Badfinger were really good; the Magic Christian Music album is one of my favourites (even if Macca did write the best song on it) and the movie (starring Ringo) was very 60s!

 

[Richland123]

When Don Barnes left .38 Special for a solo career from 1987 - 1992, he recorded one album that was never released and he had no solo success. The band went on without him and had more hit songs and albums. So, the mistake was on him leaving to try to be a solo act. After Don rejoined the band, they have continued on with him now being the only original member left in the band.

 

[prowla]

Murray was good in Sabbath during an era that wasn't big commercially but put out some great tunes. Sacking Ozzy was good for everybody. Even Ozzy.

I have to say, I never much liked Neil Murray's bass playing; he never really got away from the jazz muted fingerstyle. He was OK in Sabbath, mainly because he dropped back into the mix, but I really didn't like him in Whitesnake with his white man trying to play funky style.
I thought Whitesnake were best when they reinvented themselves with the hair-rock thing and Vandenberg (I saw him supporting the Scorpions(?) some time before), much better than the rather lame sound of the earlier albums.
As for Coverdale, I think Northwinds is his best work (used to play "Only My Soul" in a band, years ago).

 

[fretter]

I always wonder how some bands (and people in them) make the decisions they do.
A few examples would be personnel changes, musical direction changes, changes in producer, recording engineers, their overall band "look" and stuff like that.

-Why did Mick Taylor leave the Rolling Stones? ....he never did anything of note since and Ronnie Wood stepped in and has had a great career as the other guitar player.

-Black Sabbath fired Ozzy and then Ozzy went and kicked their ass for a decade or two before reconciliation measures brought them back together.

-Kiss took off their makeup, the only thing the band ever had going for them.

-Alice Cooper dumped his band and his records just turned into mush.

-Any band that ever stopped using Bob Ezrin, Mutt Lange, Rick Rubin or Butch Vig payed the price.

-The Beatles breaking up was idiotic.

-Guns and Roses breaking up was bad for everyone but Slash.

-Pink Floyd breaking up was dumb.


So, what are the biggest mistakes other bands have made..???

All of the issues relating to these band decisions are explained on Wikipedia and are mostly well known parts of these bands' histories.

 

[ThudThudThud]

Bowie releasing "Laughing Gnome"
McCartney releasing "C-Moon"
Van Halen releasing Michael Anthony.

 

[Munjibunga]

Frey and Henley firing Felder. I'm sure Felder got a substantial amount of coin in his lawsuit, but the studio guy who replaced him, while very good at copying Felder's lines, just doesn't have the feel.

 

[Jefff]

Sorry I'm late, but Nick Mason wrote a very nice "biography" of Pink Floyd.

It's worth the read.

 

[bassdude51]

Fleetwood Mac bringing in Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks.

The Moody Blues hiring Patrick Moraz to replace Michael Pinder.

Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention for never getting beyond Frank's sarcastic, condescending misanthropic personality and his penchant for juvenile lyrics. This could have been one of the truly great bands of all time if it didn't lose so much to Frank constantly having to be a smartass - and not very funny once you ran out of pot and tried listening to some of his music. I knew a guitarist like that. Dude could really play as well as write a great song. But he always had to weigh them down with bitter and sarcastic lyrics loaded with sexual innuendo - which he refused to change.

So it goes. You can't argue with crazy.

I agree on Zappa. People always quote him as if he had these pearls of infinite wisdom, but he was just an over opinionated guy who didn't think a lot of his opinions through like the rest of us. IMO of course.

Sadly, there are big, big, big reasons why Frank was so sarcastic, and biting with his words and opinions. He was harassed in high school for being an individual and he was set up, arrested by California Vice for making a recording tape of naughty sounds.

Frank had to do a lot of fighting to exercise his rights of Freedom for expression and the arts here in this USA.

Frank's father was also tested by the government with dangerous chemicals/drugs which lead to an early death and even Frank's prostrate cancer could have been caused by that crap being in his household as a youth.

Yeah, Frank had attitude issues.............wonder why?

I'm sorry for going off on a tangent with this thread. Frank Zappa was a special kind of person and artist.

 

[corinpills]

The Who hired Kenny Jones.

Gotta say: Kenney Jones made total sense on paper: drummer with the other big London mod band, totally part of their social scene as a friend, had played drums on several cuts on the Quadrophenia soundtrack, no longer in the Faces who had been as big a concert draw as the Who for a few years. Listen to his drumming on this and anybody would have thought him the right man for the gig: