Billy Sheehan in the Winery Dogs

[ProgRocker]

All I'm going to say about ADD anymore is this:

http://www.worldpublicunion.org/201...f-adhd-says-adhd-is-a-fictitious-disease.html

Do with that information what you will. I, OTOH, will continue to eat as organically as I possibly can, regardless of what it costs. You're either worth it or you're not, that's how I look at it.

It's not quite that simple for everyone Jimmy. If buying organic is going to cut into something of equal or greater importance (like gas money that gets me to and from work), I'll settle for non-organic, reasonably priced food.

I'm no more conviced organic food will make any difference than you are that ADHD is a legitimate disorder. Anorexia and bulimia are from the last 40 or so years, are they fabricated or the results of "non-organic" food too?

Can we get back on topic now?

 

[DrayMiles]

I dig Ritchie Kotzen. Anybody remember Vertu the band he had with Stanley Clarke and Lennt White?

I'll always remember seeing them at soundcheck at the Royal Festival hall, and seeing Stan rip the entire band (except Lenny) a new *******. It was a fluke I thought, then I saw him a year later at Ronnie's from around noonish 'til the concert that night. He was still.. Tyrannical...

He was a hero, but I don't dwell on stan anymore. Sometimes it's best to not meet your idols IMO.

 

[cnltb]

It's not quite that simple for everyone Jimmy. If buying organic is going to cut into something of equal or greater importance (like gas money that gets me to and from work), I'll settle for non-organic, reasonably priced food.

I'm no more conviced organic food will make any difference than you are that ADHD is a legitimate disorder. Anorexia and bulimia are from the last 40 or so years, are they fabricated or the results of "non-organic" food too?

Can we get back on topic now?

Agreed.
I think cutting junk food and sugar from ones diet will make a difference though.
As to winery dogs...
I listened to all 13 tracks but was really bored after the 7th.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, it's likely the junk food and sugar since GMO's weren't around when ADHD was first invente...er...discovered. But pesticides and Roundup certainly do nothing for your system.

 

[ProgRocker]

Ya, it's likely the junk food and sugar since GMO's weren't around when ADHD was first invente...er...discovered. But pesticides and Roundup certainly do nothing for your system.

If you're so interested in discussing this topic, why not start a new thread about it instead of hijacking this one?

It takes more than one man's claim to disprove what is accepted in by Neurologists as legitimate. Having been in the care of Neurologists since I was barely a year old, I've learned a few things over the years.

I've undergone extensive neurological testing due to Epilepsy, learning disorders, and over the last 15 years, for ADHD. I was skeptical too, but I've got a documented history that goes back over 30 years, detailing the issues that were later defined as ADHD.

Regardless of what you claim the origins of the term are, the conditions are real. I also have medical records that clearly point to causes that are not chemical in nature. There are many things that can and do cause neurological disorders.

Some are due to chemical exposure, many are not. Seriously, if you want to discuss this further, start a new thread or PM me. I came to this thread because I'm a huge fan of Billy Sheehan.

My opinions on the neurological issues are based on my life long struggles with epilepsy, learning disorders, and what after extensive testing my Neurologist calls ADHD. Other than that one link, what evidence / experience are you bringing to the table?

I haven't merely read about these things, I've lived with them for 40 years, 35 of which I remember with crystal clarity. Can you see why your opinion on the matter rings hollow to me? When you can speak from actual experience, or you have more than one link to support your opinion, I'll be happy to consider it.

Can we get back on topic now?

 

[JimmyM]

Suit yourself. But when the guy who first came up with the ADHD diagnosis says it's bunk, I tend to believe him.

 

[callofcthulhu]

All I'm going to say about ADD anymore is this:

http://www.worldpublicunion.org/201...f-adhd-says-adhd-is-a-fictitious-disease.html

Do with that information what you will. I, OTOH, will continue to eat as organically as I possibly can, regardless of what it costs. You're either worth it or you're not, that's how I look at it.

Yo, Jimbo, I agree with you that the agro-industrial and pharmo-industrial complexes are jointly responsible for many of the horrors in our society. I'm a lifetime X-Files fan, and a self-described conspiracy theorist.

But I would hesitate to link to such a National Enquirer-y site to try and prove a point in any straight faced argument.

Unless you think Bat Boy is in on the conspiracy, too.

 

[ProgRocker]

Suit yourself. But when the guy who first came up with the ADHD diagnosis says it's bunk, I tend to believe him.

I'd be more inclined to believe him if it had been published in Neurology Today or the New England Journal of Medicine.

Present a reputable source, recognized by at least the Medical Community in general, or if you really want to convince me, the Neurological community specifically.

Show me an article supporting your claim published in a Medical Journal or similarly credible source. Can you do that? If not, your so called evidence is "bunk" as you like to say.

I tend to believe Neurologists with 30yrs experience, or credible, verifiable sources. When you can support your argument with something that can withstand scrutiny, I'll be waiting.

 

[JimmyM]

Couldn't find a link, but the interview with Dr. Eisenberg was printed in Der Spiegel on Feb 2, 2012, which is a respected German magazine. Not trying to change anyone's minds here, anyway. I'm just saying what I believe. You believe what you want, and I will, too.

 

[bassthumpersf]

Anyone else see the irony of this thread being derailed by ADD?

 

[lbbc]

Hijacking this thread is ridiculous....Sheehan is amazing and I wish I could play like him. I've been a fan for years and can't wait for the Winery Dogs release. Of course, Kotzen and Portnoy are equally amazing!

 

[callofcthulhu]

Couldn't find a link, but the interview with Dr. Eisenberg was printed in Der Spiegel on Feb 2, 2012, which is a respected German magazine. Not trying to change anyone's minds here, anyway. I'm just saying what I believe. You believe what you want, and I will, too.

This snopes article suggests that the phrase "fictitious disease" was the result of a software translation. Here's Invalid Link Removed

Google translates the phrase as a "fabricated disease," which seems to (again, according to snopes) be closer to the original intent of the German, which is to say that while it's a real condition, its prevalence is vastly overstated by pill pushing doctors. The second interview linked from snopes is also worth noting - something like 10% of ADHD diagnoses are the genuine article.

So it seems like everybody wins - Jimmy is right that the culture of Western medicine is inherently biased towards big pharm-co's bottom line, and everyone else is right that ADHD is a real thing that really happens to people.

TO THE TOPIC:

Why do such amazing musicians insist on making such over-produced, shmarmy music? Sheehan is such a beast, and a huge influence of mine, but I have yet to hear him in a band that isn't making pointless pop (irony being that this kind of music isn't even popular). Similarly Portnoy - easily one of the top 10 drummers of all time IMO and he is totally wasting his talent on these completely vapid songs.

 

[JimmyM]

Sometimes great musicians write the worst songs

I don't know...I enjoyed Billy in David Lee Roth's band. But it was mostly Dave that I enjoyed. Steve Vai to a lesser extent, too.

 

[ProgRocker]

Sometimes great musicians write the worst songs

I don't know...I enjoyed Billy in David Lee Roth's band. But it was mostly Dave that I enjoyed. Steve Vai to a lesser extent, too.

Just my opinion, but to me David Lee Roth has always been the weakest link in any band he's in (including the DLR band). Steve Vai, IMO is one of the most prolific, most talented guitarists of the last 50 years.

I've seen Billy and Steve live multiple times with different bands. I've never been disappointed. Quality of songwriting is largely a matter of personal taste.

Your preferences listed speak volumes about your opinions on song writing. Let's just say we disagree, and leave it at that.

 

[blue4]

I hope this CD is good. I guess its out on Jul. 23rd? These supergroups have a tendency to be big letdowns sometimes.

 

[JimmyM]

Just my opinion, but to me David Lee Roth has always been the weakest link in any band he's in (including the DLR band). Steve Vai, IMO is one of the most prolific, most talented guitarists of the last 50 years.

I've seen Billy and Steve live multiple times with different bands. I've never been disappointed. Quality of songwriting is largely a matter of personal taste.

Your preferences listed speak volumes about your opinions on song writing. Let's just say we disagree, and leave it at that.

It's never meant as a compliment when someone says, "Your _____ speaks volumes." But I do like your method of internet discussion...trash someone else for their opinion, then try to leave it at that so you don't get an earful after insulting the person you disagree with. Lame. Very.

Sorry, I like songs that move me emotionally over awesome displays of musicianship. Whaddaya you want for nothin'? A rubber biscuit?

 

[ProgRocker]

It's never meant as a compliment when someone says, "Your _____ speaks volumes."

That's your interpretation of it. I use it matter of factly, as in "it tells a great deal about your reasoning". I'm not one to be coy, if I wanted to insult you I'd make it blatantly obvious.

But I do like your method of internet discussion...trash someone else for their opinion, then try to leave it at that so you don't get an earful after insulting the person you disagree with. Lame. Very.

Sarcasm makes for a weak argument. My intent wasn't to trash your opinion. Sorry you can't tell the difference. You have one opinion, I have another. They don't agree. Once that's established, where's the merit in continuing that particular discussion? There's nothing left to say on that particular subject.

I don't know you from Adam, I honestly don't care if you did give me an ear full. The internet is full of people like you. Have at it. Say your piece. I'm certainly not worried about what some person I don't know on an internet forum has to say. Try to leave? Please! It's an internet forum. All I was "trying" to do was end a conversation that had nothing left to discuss.

I didn't think I would have to explain that.:scowl:

Sorry, I like songs that move me emotionally over awesome displays of musicianship. Whaddaya you want for nothin'? A rubber biscuit?

Like I said, what qualifies as quality songwriting is a matter of opinion. You have yours, I have mine. No such thing as a wrong opinion, especially in music. Do you not understand that?

 

[corinpills]

Just curious, which vapid songs are you referring to? I haven't followed either of those guys' careers super closely, but I kind of feel like they have both alternated between more technique-oriented projects and song- based things. It might be one of those things where they genuinely enjoy playing in a variety of settings.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

Why do such amazing musicians insist on making such over-produced, shmarmy music? Sheehan is such a beast, and a huge influence of mine, but I have yet to hear him in a band that isn't making pointless pop (irony being that this kind of music isn't even popular). Similarly Portnoy - easily one of the top 10 drummers of all time IMO and he is totally wasting his talent on these completely vapid songs.

so if its not a complete technical shred fest its not good music?

you completely miss the point of what sheehan does. no matter how much he can shred, hes always said its about the song, all the way back to his bar band days, keep the people dancing. its doesnt matte how many notes you can play if you dont connect with the crowd. even billy says a bass players job %99.9 of the time is to lay back and groove and support the song. thats what portnoy is doing here too.

if hes such a huge influence on you maybe you listen to a few things he says and not just what you see him play in solos.

 

[E.J. T.N.T.]

Couldn't find a link, but the interview with Dr. Eisenberg was printed in Der Spiegel on Feb 2, 2012, which is a respected German magazine. Not trying to change anyone's minds here, anyway. I'm just saying what I believe. You believe what you want, and I will, too.

Der Spiegel is a respectable German magazine !?!?!?!
That was a good one...

Even though I do not fully agree with either side, I think that ADD really exists but there is a lot of people misdiagnosed therefore ruining it for all the people that actually do have it and leading it to their condition not to be taken seriously...