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Blew my 12".....AGAIN!!!!!

#121
I posted earlier about using a labyrinth. This is the best way to get lows out of a small speaker. That's how Bose does it with that table top radio / CD player they sell...Build one that is tuned to do 40hz to 100hz and you will get your bottom end. But here's the catch - just like W cabinets the lows will happen away from the cabinet. If you want to hear them closer, then a larger box that is properly tuned will work better. A 12 can go that low, but it just doesn't move enough air to be heard. that was your problem to begin with - the cabinet you have can almost do it, but you were pushing it too hard to get it to levels where you could hear it. Been there, done that... If you want chest thumping lows fairly close to the box, then you will have to go to a group of larger speakers. My best sound rig for a 5 string was four 5 cubic foot boxes with a 15 in each box. Coupling is the key to that.

Trying to bi amp works great on paper, but for bass players, what works great on paper doesn't always work on stage.
I suppose you could build a tall rear loaded labyrinth, like as tall as the 8x8 and maybe 15" wide and 20" deep, with the 12 up high and the mouth of labyrinth on the bottom. The longer the labyrinth, the more lows you get. But even with a super efficient 12 and labyrinth, I doubt you'll get what you want out of just one 12". two probably.....
 
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#124
azureblue said:
I posted earlier about using a labyrinth. This is the best way to get lows out of a small speaker. That's how Bose does it with that table top radio / CD player they sell...Build one that is tuned to do 40hz to 100hz and you will get your bottom end. But here's the catch - just like W cabinets the lows will happen away from the cabinet. If you want to hear them closer, then a larger box that is properly tuned will work better. A 12 can go that low, but it just doesn't move enough air to be heard. that was your problem to begin with - the cabinet you have can almost do it, but you were pushing it too hard to get it to levels where you could hear it. Been there, done that... If you want chest thumping lows fairly close to the box, then you will have to go to a group of larger speakers. My best sound rig for a 5 string was four 5 cubic foot boxes with a 15 in each box. Coupling is the key to that.

Trying to bi amp works great on paper, but for bass players, what works great on paper doesn't always work on stage.
I suppose you could build a tall rear loaded labyrinth, like as tall as the 8x8 and maybe 15" wide and 20" deep, with the 12 up high and the mouth of labyrinth on the bottom. The longer the labyrinth, the more lows you get. But even with a super efficient 12 and labyrinth, I doubt you'll get what you want out of just one 12". two probably.....
Click to expand...
I tried bi-amping a long time ago with a Trace Elliot AH500X (that's a name I havn't heard on here) and it didn't turn me on. I think bi-amping has morphed itself into the 1 inch compression drivers that come in most cabs today.
 
#125
tfer said:
It was pointed out earlier that there are no single 10" cabinets. It's because that cabinet would be utterly useless.
Click to expand...
Single 10's come in alot of combos. People say the markbass is pretty good. Obviously not for gigs. I've been looking to try a SWR redhead with 2 10's. People say it's surprisingly loud. It would sit nicely ontop of one of my EV TL cabs.
 
#126
tfer said:
Exactly. It's about the amount of air you can move.

And given the same excursions, a larger driver will ALWAYS move more air, and will do so with more efficiency.
Click to expand...

Are you not accepting that a large driver with poor excursion will output less sound (have less displacement since that is what really matters) than a smaller driver with greater excursion in relation. Radius squared X pi doesn't move any air until that third part of the equation is taken into account. Hence; no blanket statements about size.
 
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#127
Bigbri said:
Single 10's come in alot of combos. People say the markbass is pretty good. Obviously not for gigs. I've been looking to try a SWR redhead with 2 10's. People say it's surprisingly loud. It would sit nicely ontop of one of my EV TL cabs.
Click to expand...
Sure. There are 8" combos available (I have the Ampeg version), but not as separate cabinets. They simply can't push enough air to be useful. I'm sure that at some point, an engineer will create a 10" driver with a long enough excursion to move enough air to be viable, but again if the same excursion is available to a 15" driver, the 15 will be louder, with better bass response.

2X10" cabs have almost the exact same surface area as a single 15".
 
#128
B-string said:
Are you not accepting that a large driver with poor excursion will output less sound (have less displacement since that is what really matters) than a smaller driver with greater excursion in relation. Radius squared X pi doesn't move any air until that third part of the equation is taken into account. Hence; no blanket statements about size.
Click to expand...
Not at all. I've stated multiple times that if the excursions are equal, the larger driver will ALWAYS be louder with better bass response.

By the same token, what you gain in bass response, you lose in transient response because smaller speakers have a higher transient attack.

There's a reason that subwoofers are large, and tweeters are small.

And from sales response, combinations of 10" drivers seem to be where most bassists are happiest. If you need more bass, at louder volumes, you simply add another pair of 10s.
 
#131
Selta said:
You do realize we're working with cones, not circles, right? You can't even make a blanket statement like you did here. I'm sorry, but you are pretty far off in all of the statement that you are presenting as facts. Please stop.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I passed high school math.

They are almost identical in surface area. But nice try.
 
#135
EV TL606 cab...i've got 2 with EV15L....but I tried a Peavey Scorpion and a generic import 15 with a 2 1/2" coil in one of the cabs and I thought they both sounded fine.

I mean there are lots of these EV cabs around but I always use 2 stacked on top of each other.

Probably I would try the 12" driver upgrade though for $189...if the gig pays anything at all it is worth a last ditch try.

Also be CAREFUL with your amp settings....use your ears and adjust to where it does not seem to be straining the driver...but hey, you are using a low B!! Adjust the EQ!
 
#138
No way??!?? Really?

Please...

I'm not going to post a resume here, but I have worked with some of the finest loudspeakers in the world - Bowers and Wilkins - and I know what I'm talking about.

But you just keep believing that you can use any driver you like.
 
#139
Yeah, there's a lot to it. I'm certainly no expert. But some of you guys are and I try to pay attention. I would say for example that multiple smaller speakers can have better power handing that one large speaker. And that tweeters are tiny because they simply don't need to be large to be loud, and that high frequencies are produced with better fidelity with a smaller, less massive driver.
 

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