body wood does matter

[Afc70]

Yeah, it is important to acknowledge that not everyone has the same level of hearing acuity. They literally might not be able to hear the difference.

I really believe you are correct- just as some people have poor vision/ near/farsightedness, are colorblind, i would surmise that physiologically speaking, people may actually hear things differently. When people say they cant hear a difference, I believe them, but I definitely can hear a difference, sometimes drastically, sometimes subtly.

 

[saabfender]

Someone might think, "Oh, [wood X] must be 'darker' or 'brighter'", but that doesn't mean it really is.

In the words of Groucho Marx, “Who are you going to believe: me or your lying eyes?”

 

[Afc70]

Three highly identical bases, same pickups, same brand new strings, same exact electronics and hardware, same type of swamp ash body wood, three different neck wood configurations. Three distinctly different tonalities. If you are in the NYC area come over and hear the difference for yourself.
View attachment 3136905 View attachment 3136906

Killer Dingwalls btw!

 

[Killed_by_Death]

did you play them through the same amp with the same settings?

Yes, a Fender Rumble 500 & I always set all the controls to noon, except the volume.

i do believe it makes some small difference.

It was a large difference in this case, which I don't believe is down to the capacitor or pot value tolerances.

But with only four samples I shouldn’t be too confident it’s true.

It's not the first time I've noticed it, but it was the most pronounced difference.

the issue would be how it impacts the bass' weight first. Regardless of how great a bass sounds, if it's too heavy it's off my radar.

I'm the same way, but the Alder bass was actually heavier.

wood that is so bad it renders all of those controls useless

I wasn't clear on that. They did make a difference, but it still sounded less lively than my previous ASAT bass.

 

[saabfender]

You can't prove a negative. You can prove that it makes a (real life) difference. People have claimed this is easy to prove thousands of times, but still noone actually proves it.

He not asking you to prove a negative. He’s asking you to prove equivalence, which is what you seem to be claiming.

 

[nilorius]

The body wood has 2 most specific nuanses - the sound and the weight. You must know what is more important for you and combine those two nuanses in wood world and choose the best option, the electronics comes later.

 

[xnewyorka]

Again: anecdotes are not evidence that it makes a (real life) difference. It might as well be difference in the pieces of wood, not the type of wood. Or something completely different.

Of course you are absolutely correct that the difference is in the piece of wood, not the type of wood. The sound doesn't know what type of wood it is, nor does it care. It is the physical properties of the wood that matter. Different species of wood exhibit different general characteristics, but those characteristics appear across a range of values, not a consistent exact specific value that is repeated for every piece of the same wood. So yes, it is the specific piece of wood that matters, not the species. But you must admit, it is much easier to talk about it in terms of the species, since that is something that is readily known and easily labeled and discussed. One species generally has a range of characteristics that may differentiate it from another species. You cannot talk easily about a piece of wood based on its density, specific gravity, number of grain lines per inch, grain straightness and angle with respect to the cut, etc., because those things, while important, are not readily measurable by the common person. So the wood species is used as a proxy to represent those things, and it is a broad generic stereotype, very much like cultural stereotypes. You can say all X people are X, but that is simply not true. You will find counter-examples very easily. And with that, I will exit this thread. Pointless argument anyway. Most of the tone is in the fingers of the player. Every time this argument comes up, wise people agree to disagree and walk away.

By the way, if anybody wants one of those three G&Ls shown above, I'm willing to part with any two out of the three. They are great basses, but I have many others and just don't need them all. Oddly enough, I acquired them because I wanted to see for myself how much difference the fingerboard material or weight would actually make. My curiosity has been satisfied.

 

[xnewyorka]

I wasn't clear on that. They did make a difference, but it still sounded less lively than my previous ASAT bass.

Word to the wise: When you find yourself using the words "not lively", it means you need to replace the dead component on the instrument, i.e. the strings.

 

[saabfender]

The idea that pickups matter more than the acoustic sound of the instrument doesn’t make a lot of sense. Wouldn’t that be analogous to saying the microphone makes more of a difference to a recorded piano sound than the piano itself?

 

[Killed_by_Death]

you need to replace the dead component on the instrument, i.e. the strings

Next time I'll demand they change the strings while I wait.

 

[Muddslide]

I can't believe this discussion never ends, and of course will never be resolved.

I am sure that every possible variable imaginable comes into play with regard to magical toney goodness, and wood is one of those variables.

What I don't understand is why this is such a major issue.

We aren't talking about finely crafted acoustic instruments played in acoustically miraculous concert venues.

We're talking about slabs of dead wood, metal hardware, strings, electronics and electricity itself.

Who here plays electric bass solely acoustically. Nobody? Not surprising.

No, instead everyone has something in their signal chain even if it is solely instrument > cable > amp.

We can talk about the fine nuances of this or that wood type, grain tightness, etc., all the live long day.

ALL of those alleged nuances can be completely overridden in about 1.5 seconds with the turn of a simple knob or an adjustment of EQ, not to mention altering of technique or hand placement, or replacing strings.

 

[mongo2]

The idea that pickups matter more than the acoustic sound of the instrument doesn’t make a lot of sense.

The pickups are transducers that filter the sound of the string according to the electronic characteristics of the pickup. If the frequency content doesn't exist in the strings, the pickups will not create it.

The frequency content in the strings is influenced by resonances, constructive and destructive interference as a result of the interaction of the vibrations with the inherent characteristics of the body, neck and hardware.

The timbre is in the timber.

 

[xnewyorka]

Next time I'll demand they change the strings while I wait.

I have done that twice at GC. They have no problem changing the strings if they can see that you are genuine about wanting to buy the bass if it comes to life with a string change. All you have to do is say I really like this bass a lot, and I would buy it if it sounds good. Right now, it sounds like crap, and I am expecting and hoping that it sounds like crap because the strings are dead. If you can replace the strings and it sounds good, I'll take it. If you need time to do that, let me know when I should come back. I will be happy to change the strings myself if you would allow me to do that.

I doubt they would let you change the strings, but it is worth asking. I did however, convince a GC salesman to let me adjust the truss rod on a StingRay once. Sure enough, the issue the bass had was due to the truss rod adjustment, and I walked out with the bass. If he had not let me adjust the truss rod, I would have never bought it, since I had no way to know if it would be able to play nice or not. I got a great deal on a great bass that they could not sell because it played like crap, and it turned out to be a total winner after simply making a full clockwise turn on the truss rod.

 

[foolforthecity]

I have to respectfully disagree. The amount of "stiffness" between types of wood is so small as to be irrelevant. If the components are strong enough to counteract the pull of the strings, then the mass is stiff enough to not be affected very much by the vibration of the strings. People go on and on about the wood of the body, neck, fingerboard, etc. but ignore the potential differences in electromagnetic components, which would have a much greater effect:

- Pickup windings (how many does it take to change the sound? Can you show two pickups are wound exactly the same?)
- Pickup height
- Quality of the solder joints
- Pot quality/cleanliness
- Shielding
- Strings in general (that's a hole with no bottom!)

Does a body made out of concrete, aluminum or legos really sound that much different than ash or alder, etc.? Could you tell the difference in a blindfold test? After all, the "stiffness" of these materials would vary greatly from any kind of wood. If you play a bass unplugged, are any differences clear-cut? I would think if the wood really mattered, then playing unamped would reveal a great deal of variation, since you've removed the electromagnetic forces completely.

As I've stated before, the idea that the wood imparts some contribution to the sound is partially based on the fact that it does affect the vibration of the air within an acoustic instrument; that can't be denied. But an electric instrument only superficially resembles an acoustic one. All that matters is the string vibration in a magnetic field; the wood has little or no effect on that (certainly less than the things I've listed); it seems counter-intuitive to many people, just like the idea that the Earth moves around the Sun does not appear to match what we see. But what we experience does not always conform to reality. It's the aural version of an optical illusion. Thinking the wood affects the sound affects how the sound is perceived.

I realize many people disagree with this. Vehemently. But with people having their own opinion on which wood sounds "brighter" or "darker", it points to being very subjective, not objective.

We all talk about tone until the cows come home, but I'd love to find a good baseband audio spectrum analyzer and get into listening while observing the various complex frequencies that build tone to gain a better audio/visual correlation and understanding of component relationships. Any suggestions from anyone to this end?

 

[cnltb]

body wood does matter
It does indeed

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I did however, convince a GC salesman to let me adjust the truss rod on a stingray once.

I asked them to take some of the relief out of the neck on mine before I'd buy it, just to make sure the TR worked.
The guy must have cranked it a full turn, because the strings were on the frets when I tried to check neck relief. Previously it had been probably more than 1/64" off the frets.
When I got it home I realized he hadn't slacked the strings either, because every string was sharp.

 

[Muddslide]

We all talk about tone until the cows come home, but I'd love to find a good baseband audio spectrum analyzer and get into listening while observing the various complex frequencies that build tone to gain a better audio/visual correlation and understanding of component relationships. Any suggestions from anyone to this end?

Yes. Just rake a sec to twiddle a knob on your amp instead, thus utterly wiping out the perceived subtle differences in tone between woods, put down the spectra analyzers, pick up your bass, play it and have fun instead.

 

[xnewyorka]

We all talk about tone until the cows come home, but I'd love to find a good baseband audio spectrum analyzer and get into listening while observing the various complex frequencies that build tone to gain a better audio/visual correlation and understanding of component relationships. Any suggestions from anyone to this end?

I found that link:


You can visually tell that each tonewood gives a different spectrum.

Here's the explanation:

guitarworks.thestrandbergs.com/2014/12/28/the-impact-of-wood-choice-in-an-electric-guitar/

 

[foolforthecity]

Yes. Just rake a sec to twiddle a knob on your amp instead, thus utterly wiping out the perceived subtle differences in tone between woods, put down the spectra analyzers, pick up your bass, play it and have fun instead.

My tapeworm geek controls me to continue the search for audio visual truth... I must comply

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Killer Dingwalls btw!

My eyes will never stop telling me those are equally space frets on a corkscrew neck