Go ahead, test it and prove that it matters for the sound of a finished bass, all things else being equal.
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body wood does matter
- Thread starter Killed_by_Death
- Start date
I think body wood is one of the things that makse a difference for sure.
But I seriously don't think it's ONLY thing in this case.
I habe literally played hundreds of basses. I used to work at a store thay stocked 40+ at any given time. I have owned a few dozen myself. I have played plenty if basses that didn't resonate. I have played plenty of L-2000 basses.
There's no such thing as a peice of wood that is so bad it renders all of those controls useless. Something else contributed to the problem.
But I seriously don't think it's ONLY thing in this case.
I habe literally played hundreds of basses. I used to work at a store thay stocked 40+ at any given time. I have owned a few dozen myself. I have played plenty if basses that didn't resonate. I have played plenty of L-2000 basses.
There's no such thing as a peice of wood that is so bad it renders all of those controls useless. Something else contributed to the problem.
Oh believe me, there are such pieces of wood. Or, more so, combinations of body and neck that just don't gel and make the guitar sound dead for some reason, both acoustically and electronically, and nothing you do will change it. Nobody has yet found an explanation for why this happens, just that it happens, I hope somebody can explain this phenomena during my lifetime, including how to circumvent it other than changing the body/neck.
So, you're telling me thay you have played multiple guitars and basses that had such "bad wood" that no tone controls made any difference in the sound whatsoever?
I don't buy that for a minute. Different kinds if "bad" being produced by knob tweeks and switch flipping? I'll buy that. But wood so "bad" that it rendors tone controls useless is simply not true. The L-2000 will go from dub like all sub bass pillowy lows to highs that sound like a .22 rifle every time you hit a note. You can't "undo" all of thay through wood.
I would go so far as to say you could install those electronics in concrete and you could at least get a difference in tone by tweeking the knobs and switches.
If one species of wood is specially stiffer than the other and stiffness affects sound then the two species will sound different from one another. That's a pretty straightforward tautology you constructed yet spend half a page trying to talk your way out of.
What is it with tonewood (shorthand for "wood-makes-a-difference") deniers anyway? What is the value in asserting the type of wood used for an electric guitar is irrelevant? Before I came to internet, I had never crossed paths with any musicians who: A. Had this belief and B. Were so militant in its expression.
With the obviousness of the fact that a slab of one kind of wood vibrates differently from another, it seems logical that the onus for explaining their views falls to the deniers.
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Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
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It's physics, not magic. Yes, explanations exist: some in this thread, in fact.
Fellow Scandinavian Johan Segeborn has tested out this kind of thing ad nauseum. Why don't you do some work and watch an hour or so to find out about the subject? It takes no effort on your part to sit back with arms folded and demand others "prove it."
Everything makes a difference, the argument is really over relative percentage of effect. I happen to believe, with no scientific evidence whatsoever (which is what everybody has to support their opinions, apparently) that’s it’s something like 80% electronics, 15% neck, and 5% body. If this was so easy to prove one way or the other, somebody would have done it. There are a few videos out there showing necks and electronics bolted to wood planks of various species, purporting to demonstrate different tonal qualities, but since every piece of wood is unique, really only demonstrates that two pieces of wood sound different. The idea that you can assemble a “recipe” of woods chosen to produce a specific tone is highly suspect to me. The only basses I’ve ever played that sounded identical bass to bass were the original design Steinberger L2’s, not surprising, since all were made of materials of virtually identical stiffness, weight, density, etc.
Well there you go folks! From a non-experiment with a sample size of just two basses, we finally have all the scientific proof we need.
Did you know talkbass keeps tigers away? You are looking at talkbass right now and you dont see any tigers do you? Much larger sample size than OP so much more scientific.
Means2nEnd
Supporting Member
Well I don't know about backing my opinion up with science about wood in an instrument in terms of what it can do to the tone any more than I care what a group of people think. I base my opinion on my experience and research.
I think one thing can be proven with science and math. More people here and on YouTube who have little to no experience building anything tell people who do build instruments that they for certain know way more about wood blah blah blah than people like Bruce Johnson who have built instruments for a living, for decades, with almost every combination of wood and hardware imaginable, who is an engineer that he doesn’t know what he is talking about. I find that incredibly entertaining and I can prove it. I keep reading posts like this and laughing so it must be funny see I can prove it.
I think one thing can be proven with science and math. More people here and on YouTube who have little to no experience building anything tell people who do build instruments that they for certain know way more about wood blah blah blah than people like Bruce Johnson who have built instruments for a living, for decades, with almost every combination of wood and hardware imaginable, who is an engineer that he doesn’t know what he is talking about. I find that incredibly entertaining and I can prove it. I keep reading posts like this and laughing so it must be funny see I can prove it.
Wow. You know so much about everyone else's level of experience, knowledge and capability.
I think one of the reasons I never heard anyone arguing against the obvious before the internet is its echo-chamber-like nature. It's very tribal and really easy for people with wacko ideas to congregate and reinforce their message. As a group they are harder to dismiss than some guy in a tin foil hat on the sidewalk.
The OP said nothing about "proof."
I would NOT make that assumption
differing body chemistry from even a handfull of folks can drastically impact the strings......especially if you are unsure of the gauge and manufacturer (you are assuming they are the same but dont know for sure)
Strings can certainly have the biggest impact on the differences...I would not just write that off....YMMV
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Well, I watched this video from Johan:
The only variations I hear are from his playing. It's not a particularly "scientific" experiment, because it's (again) subjective. Someone might think, "Oh, [wood X] must be 'darker' or 'brighter'", but that doesn't mean it really is. The vibration imparted from strings to wood is a minuscule force compared to the mass required of the body to resist the string tension. Plus this "vibrational force" is dampened by the body being in contact with the player, making it even less likely to have an audible impact on the electromagnetic properties of the string vibrating between nut/fret and bridge in a magnetic field.
As I said, many people disagree strongly about this, but there's certainly no clear-cut evidence to support wood matters, at least in this video.
I understand why you'd think this, but I've encountered showroom basses with dead strings, and it's frustrating because you can't get a good sense of the tone.
For example, a couple of years ago I encountered a new American Pro Fender P and a new G&L LB-100 in a GC. The G&L positively destroyed the Fender for tone, with more punch, clarity, etc., but I realized the Fender's strings weren't fresh so I couldn't be sure. A few months later, I found the same pair in another GC, but both had fresh strings, and while the G&L had slightly stronger output they otherwise sounded almost identical.
So, I wouldn't be surprised if strings influenced your perception here, but FWIW I do think body wood can make a difference.
Did you know talkbass keeps tigers away? You are looking at talkbass right now and you dont see any tigers do you? Much larger sample size than OP so much more scientific.
First it would be necessary to establish there actually were tigers there before.
But either way you can’t prove a negative. Just because something “is not” doesn’t establish correlation nor show cause and effect.
However, TB exists on the web. So it’s a virtual construct that doesn’t occupy a physical space. The web is paradoxically everywhere - yet nowhere.
Hmm…
So maybe it’s keeping virtual tigers away?
Oops!…guess not.
Have you seen the threads on string installs, and how improper installation can deaden a string? (which could be in play here for the OP's observations).
Exactly right. On a G&L, if there is enough battery power to power the preamp circuit, it still works. But as soon as the battery drops below a threshold voltage, the output goes to zero in active mode. The bass still works perfectly fine in passive mode even with a dead battery or no battery.
I don't know why the OP was fiddling with the preamp if he wants to only play in passive mode. But regardless, on any type of bass, when you find that the treble control doesn't seem to have much effect, it can mean that there is no treble in the signal to boost or cut because the string is dead. This can make you feel sure that there is something wrong with the electronics when in fact it is just the strings. The electronics cannot fabricate signal that is not there in the first place.
I recently experienced this same thing when I received a used Ken Smith Bass from the classifieds and was very concerned that the tone controls weren't working. I replaced the battery and they were still dead. I replaced the strings, and the problem was solved. The tone controls suddenly had a massive effect, and the base itself completely came alive overall. Listening to it before and after, you would not even believe it was the same base. The strings looked dull but OK, but had obviously been sitting on the bass for a long, long time and had oxidized so much there was no treble coming out of them.
Yes body wood makes a difference, and the neck wood makes a lot of difference as well. But IMHO, the most dominant factor in the sound of a note on any electric guitar is the string type and condition and the way (how and where) it is plucked.
