body wood does matter

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Indeed.

You know what really surprised me a year or so back (though this probably is no earthshaking revelation to most people)?

-- The effect different picks have on sound.

I'm talking more about guitar and acoustic guitar. I only use a pick maybe a quarter to a third of the time with bass, but I noticed it on bass too.

I was just really surprised how much of an impact pick thickness and pick material have on overall sound.

It was an easy test to discern too, as I was using the exact same instrument, amp settings (where applicable), etc. ; just different kinds of picks.

I now have a fairly impressive pick collection which I acquired without even intending to.

***Incidentally I do find these differences are more pronounced on my acoustic guitar than on my electric bass, but the differences are still obvious to my ears.

That is no joke. I sometimes wonder how many players who've tried a pick and hated it might feel differently if they had tried a different pick. The difference between a cheap Fender guitar pick you find in any guitar shop and the 3mm Dunlops I use is like night and day, and that's without a really major difference in material.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

My experience shows NO AUDIBLE DIFFERENCE in tone when the body wood is changed but everything else stays the same.

You're the only one so far that's reported swapping parts with bodies didn't change the timbre. The others who've reported similar activities concur that wood matters.
You're not using 250K Ohm pots on all these builds are you?

 

[jd56hawk]

That is no joke. I sometimes wonder how many players who've tried a pick and hated it might feel differently if they had tried a different pick. The difference between a cheap Fender guitar pick you find in any guitar shop and the 3mm Dunlops I use is like night and day, and that's without a really major difference in material.

Yes, and that's why I use a bass pick...night and day.

 

[hbarcat]

You're the only one so far that's reported swapping parts with bodies didn't change the timbre. The others who've reported similar activities concur that wood matters.

There are plenty of builders/luthiers who say the same thing I'm saying (that wood doesn't matter to tone) and there are numerous threads on this topic - probably too many. They all seem to devolve into the basic argument of one side says they don't hear a difference and the other side says they do hear a difference. I don't want to go down that road and I'm not denigrating anyone who disagrees with me. I'm just stating my opinion as someone who has experience swapping identical components into bodies made of different wood.

You're not using 250K Ohm pots on all these builds are you?

I always use the electronics that come in the box from the company when I buy the pickups. Often EMG's, but also Seymour Duncan, Fender, DiMarzio, etc.. .

 

[Killed_by_Death]

If you're using 250K Ohm pots you're draining out the top half of the timbre, which can make all the difference. I'd agree they'd all sound very similar with 250K Ohm pots.

I'd like to believe for every builder who believes there's no difference there are 10 who do.
Even in this thread there's 4 to 1 or maybe 5 to 1.

 

[hbarcat]

That is no joke. I sometimes wonder how many players who've tried a pick and hated it might feel differently if they had tried a different pick. The difference between a cheap Fender guitar pick you find in any guitar shop and the 3mm Dunlops I use is like night and day, and that's without a really major difference in material.

Have you ever tried a bronze pick? There are some available that are made from cracked cymbals. I sometimes use them and the attack has a noticeably higher harmonic content. Really "ringy".

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Have you ever tried a bronze pick? There are some available that are made from cracked cymbals. I sometimes use them and the attack has a noticeably higher harmonic content. Really "ringy".

No, never had the opportunity. It sounds interesting, but maybe brighter than I like; I go for the 3mms specifically because of the darker sound they have compared to other picks I've tried.

 

[hbarcat]

If you're using 250K Ohm pots you're draining out the top half of the timbre, which can make all the difference. I'd agree they'd all sound very similar with 250K Ohm pots.

That's not the case with my builds.

I'd like to believe for every builder who believes there's no difference there are 10 who do.
Even in this thread there's a 4 to 1 or maybe 5 to 1.

Fair enough. But the fact remains that every single person who is weighing in (including myself), is only providing their subjective opinion. No one has conducted a genuine double blind experiment with all variables controlled.

I've actually thought about doing that for awhile but have never gotten around to it. Frankly, it would be a lot of work and it would need a huge amount of preparation and set up time.

This thread is actually an incentive for me to actually do this. I'll design the experiment and then start a thread before running it. I can get input from you and other interested members.

 

[InternetAlias]

Metal picks absolutely destroy strings. Use with caution.

 

[hbarcat]

No, never had the opportunity. It sounds interesting, but maybe brighter than I like; I go for the 3mms specifically because of the darker sound they have compared to other picks I've tried.

It also "clicks" a little if you're too aggressive. And if you're not careful, the pick will scrape on the raised part of round wound strings and this doesn't sound very good.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

Metal picks absolutely destroy strings. Use with caution.

The ones that stood up to metal picks for me was cobalt flats.

Although, I don't think I tried with SS flats.

but you miss the RASP of roundwounds on a metal pick

 

[hbarcat]

Metal picks absolutely destroy strings. Use with caution.

Bronze picks are softer than stainless steel strings so they won't wear out. I suppose a steel pick with nickel strings would cause premature wear.

 

[InternetAlias]

Bronze picks are softer than stainless steel strings so they won't wear out. I suppose a steel pick with nickel strings would cause premature wear.

I use exclusively nickel strings, never steel, despite playing metal. I just feel steels are overly and unnecessarily harsh for me in general. Also even if bronze picks are softer than most metal alloys used for strings, they're still going to scrape strings much harder than a plastic pick, which will translate to faster damage over time anyways. Now, of course, if you regularly switch strings this won't mean anything.

 

[hbarcat]

I use exclusively nickel strings, never steel, despite playing metal. I just feel steels are overly and unnecessarily harsh for me in general. Also even if bronze picks are softer than most metal alloys used for strings, they're still going to scrape strings much harder than a plastic pick, which will translate to faster damage over time anyways. Now, of course, if you regularly switch strings this won't mean anything.

I would NEVER use any metal pick on flat wounds. They are supposed to set into their full sound potential after months of use and then last a lifetime. A metal pick really would destroy them.

 

[DigitalMan]

Fair enough. But the fact remains that every single person who is weighing in (including myself), is only providing their subjective opinion. No one has conducted a genuine double blind experiment with all variables controlled

I don’t think a double blind would solve it, because there is a feedback loop between the players brain and the sonic output. I think we could create dozens of double blind tests that people would fail repeatedly regardless of what sounds we are comparing.

I think a simple test would be to create a mechanism that acts like a clamp, with a single string on top and a plank of wood below. I would recommend an A string as a median choice. Replace the wood with a variety of densities and ensure the string is tuned the same and the clamps apply equal pressure. The goal is to produce the simplest possible mechanism that duplicated the tension and contact between string and body/neck, and to be able to change the wood quickly in order to repeat the tests under the most similar possible conditions. Then measure the frequency response of the string. Pluck it the same way 50-100 times and record and analyze the waveforms. The aggregate frequency response between plank A and plank B will either be identical or notably different. That will be your answer.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I suppose a steel pick with nickel strings would cause premature wear.

Nickel strings are also steel, so it depends on which type of steel.

 

[InternetAlias]

Nickel strings are also steel, so it depends on which type of steel.

True but they are much softer than strings branded as SS in general.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

It depends on what steel the pick is made from.

I would NEVER use any metal pick on flat wounds.

I don't, but not because I think it destroys them, but because you don't get that raspiness that you get from using metal on roundwounds.

 

[40Hz]

Why is it so hard to accept that the wood frame plays a part too?

I think you’re twisting several aspects of this discussion to suit your own argument a bit. You mention body frameworks and chambering whereas the discussion here revolves around slab type solidbody basses and the degree to which the wood that makes up said slab affects the tone and timbre of the instrument.

I don’t think too many would argue it has absolutely no effect whatsoever. What is being suggested by some is that it has a very minor to negligible effect compared to the pickups, strings, electronics, amp, and player.

 

[somebrains]

Chambering starts to introduce voodoo.
Best to really know what solid bodies are going to do before heading to the place where my coworkers cowshed many many many bodies back when we could get stacks of Boogie Bodies under $40.

The greybeard guys that taught us would do brace shaves on acoustices, work on hollow/semi hollow bug Jazz guitars, work on the doghouses. They'd crank out invoices as a CRAFT, not bolt together assumptions of science

It's a different thing, but if someone has the knack for it there's a lot of work out there bc no one is making a decent living at having Symphony contracts anymore.