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Boom Bass Cabinets?

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#121
slade said:
only peer review I would care about is from players that I respect, that I know have tons of stage experience, have toured tons of rigs on all kinds of stages (which it sounds like Spaceman has) . Once they've played one I'll listen. Of course, in the real world, everything has limits- including two 12" speakers. Physics does trump enthusiasm in all cases. Get your cabs into a bunch of players hands and encourage them to review them and compare them to other rigs. Much more useful than sitting here getting offended by people questioning your claims right? Sounds like you knew that CLPeavey was going to give you a hard time (which anyone here would know)- why are you so pissed about it? It's a no brainer. Be proud of your product, get it out there, and let it stand on it's merits!!
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Once again, I'm neither pissed off nor offended. I can't control what tone you choose to overlay on my words.

Maybe you missed it, we are getting these cabs into players hands. Maybe you missed the reception Ian's review got? Of course not.

Yes, I knew certain folk would do what they have done in the past. Yes, I did request that they man up should they find they are wrong... again. No, I don't expect that to happen... it hasn't happened here with their assumptions about what's been written in very plain English.

Physic based on partial information, ignoring the unpredictable, doesn't trump anything. I'd personally be embarrassed to stick my neck out as far as some have, clearly knowing what they don't know but hey... that's just me.

Read my words in a robotic voice, in context. If if still seems that I'm pissed off, cool. Considering I've now explained this more than once, run with it. I have nothing to be pissed off about, far from it. I've come across another great piece of kit AND it's local to me and I've been involved in its development. I love this stuff, warts and all.

I've been called names before in an extremely similar situation and the only thing that bothered me about that was that it was allowed. I expected the usual negative reaction to happen with the usual naysayers, I said as much very early on the thread. Now I'm just enjoying the show.
:D

BTW every gear recommendation I've made on TB in the 14+ years I've been here has stood the test of time. Every one. I only recommend gear that performs well above average. I know some will completely ignore that and I'm cool with that. Far more get where I'm coming from and that is why I'm here.
 
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#122
So for perspective- which pieces of gear are you referencing? That would help paint a clear picture of your likes, dislikes, and standards-
I've gotten super frustrated here before with a few members, and honestly I'm in your camp with regards to "hear it before you bash it" mentality.
Either way- best of luck with the new cabs.
 
#126
slade said:
So for perspective- which pieces of gear are you referencing? That would help paint a clear picture of your likes, dislikes, and standards-
I've gotten super frustrated here before with a few members, and honestly I'm in your camp with regards to "hear it before you bash it" mentality.
Either way- best of luck with the new cabs.
Click to expand...

In over 14 years there have been a lot of recommendations. I've been recommending Brubakers since I bought my first one, used, here on TB maybe 12 or 13 years ago. In addition, off the top of my head...

Bag End (;))
Nahas cabs
Tobias
Amplified Music Products
Thunderfunk
Michael Pope Designs preamps
Yamaha PB1 preamps
Bartolini electronics
Zon fretlesses
Ken Smith fretlesses*
Elrick
Acoustic Image
Walter Woods*
Avalon
Eden
Aguilar
Guild Hartke
Roscoe
Fender
Kustom KXB500 amp
SWR Triad cab
Marleaux basses
Fodera
R Bass
Yancey basses
Surine basses
Stambaugh basses
Ristola basses*
F Bass
A Basses
Bone basses
Crown amps
Glasstone cabs and basses
Genz Benz
Markbass
Boss multi effects units.

There's more. With the exception of those with asterisks, I've owned sometimes multiples of the items I've listed.


In most cases long before these items caught on/became mainstream. So far I've only been accused of shilling for Markbass and Glasstone. My "compensation" from both brands has been zero :D.

I tell others about stuff I like because maybe it might work for them too. That's all. Because of my travels I've been able to try out everything I've recommended. In many cases I own what I'm talking about and have gigging experience. Everything I'd recommend has to be giggable.


I don't pop in making recommendations like I'm just throwing them against the wall to see if they'll stick. In the last few years I've really cut back because I get tired of the negative push back I get from people who don't know me. Then again, I'm not the one who's new here ;)

I'm more than happy to help the folks who want it, now if I could just get the ones who don't to leave me alone...
:D
 
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#129
I guess the question I would have is will they perform as well out front as on stage for the price. Many don't have PA support and can ill afford an expensive cab that only performs well slightly off stage? I personally don't see how the design can come close to the transfer efficiency of horn loading which is still under 10%? Where does the efficiency fall, in the bass reflex range for lows without the frequency peaks?
 
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#132
Brad Johnson said:
@B String: At this point how could that be proven?
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Which question? I have not fallowed the throng so I may have missed empirical data on projection (please give me a post number if it has been offered). Has the question of low end smooth response (sealed cab) with reinforcement found in ported cabs been addressed? I will admit to not reading through all the banter and just asking a "fresh" question for someone new to the thread.
 
#133
B-string said:
Which question? I have not fallowed the throng so I may have missed empirical data on projection (please give me a post number if it has been offered). Has the question of low end smooth response (sealed cab) with reinforcement found in ported cabs been addressed? I will admit to not reading through all the banter and just asking a "fresh" question for someone new to the thread.
Click to expand...


I'm wondering how projection can be addressed minus the actual experience of those who've heard the cabs? How do other manufacturers address this? I can't recall seeing projection figures in any of the major players' specs. For example, here are Aguilar's performance specs on a DB112 cab:

Power Handling: 300 watts RMS
Frequency Response: 42 Hz - 16 kHz
Sensitivity: 95 dB 1W 1M
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 14" H, 19" W, 19" D
Weight: 45 lbs
 
#134
On the peer review, how the measurements relates to actual double blind listening tests is all peer reviewed. Many times. A good start is AES. Here's one peer reviewed paper Invalid Link Removed

Sean Olive states
"From the perceptual data, a set of acoustical loudspeaker measurements has been identified from which we can model and predict listeners' loudspeaker preference ratings with about 86% accuracy."

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-relationship-between-perception-and.html

The acoustical loudspeaker measurements aren't a secret.

The measurements can reliably predict the listener preferences.

Now, It could happen that an individual reviewer could get 99% accuracy all the time. That would sure beat the measurements. It could happen. :)
 
#135
Brad Johnson said:
I'm wondering how projection can be addressed minus the actual experience of those who've heard the cabs? How do other manufacturers address this? I can't recall seeing projection figures in any of the major players' specs. For example, here are Aguilar's performance specs on a DB112 cab:

Power Handling: 300 watts RMS
Frequency Response: 42 Hz - 16 kHz
Sensitivity: 95 dB 1W 1M
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 14" H, 19" W, 19" D
Weight: 45 lbs
Click to expand...

Would not be that hard these days, very fast RTAs exist. Measure a respected "production" cab at 12 to 15 feet out and a respective cab from this builder. Same amp, same settings just switch cabs using a controlled source. If you want to "break ground", break it all the way. Yes, no?
 
#136
No offense, this really does not seem to resemble reality. Let's check with other companies and find out how they sat a peer panel and the results of their double blind testing.

And testing for listeners' preferences? I guess I'm old school... I need to actual hear any gear in question to determine how well it fits what I want. And preferably in the mix.
:)
 
#138
B-string said:
Would not be that hard these days, very fast RTAs exist. Measure a respected "production" cab at 12 to 15 feet out and a respective cab from this builder. Same amp, same settings just switch cabs using a controlled source. If you want to "break ground", break it all the way. Yes, no?
Click to expand...

We already broke ground with the cabs;). I respect the suggestion, who else is doing this? The cab I quoted does nothing close to this... and that's not a criticism of Aguilar.

Here's my experience with this sort of thing: no matter how well intentioned or well controlled you perform tests like these, someone will call "BS". Because you really can't factor everything into a test like that and at best it is a tiny snapshot of performance with way too many variables.

Tl:dr - a general waste of time.

We are producing sound for an electrical musical instrument. That generally differs from accurate reproduction of music. So a lot of what we'd look for in one isn't all that relevant in the other. And IME the section of the buying public that wants two pages of detailed specs is very small. People can look at specs and get a preconceived notion of what a cab sounds like and easily be quite wrong.
 
#139
slade said:
Yeah, I've only been a member since 2001. Newbie for sure :thumbsup:
Nice list of stuff- most I have little to no experience with. Thanks for listing though.
Click to expand...
MuthaFunk said:
Win! I hate to draw off point but this post is one of those rare moments of brilliance that really shouldn't just slip by with only a couple "likes"
Click to expand...


Yep... I made the robotic voice suggestion (I've done that before for folks who "hear" what I'm writing) and someone follows through and assigns a robotic voice. That's comedy gold, Jerry!
:D


Don't worry... I'm just angry I didn't do it.
:mad:
 
#140
Brad Johnson said:
We already broke ground with the cabs;). I respect the suggestion, who else is doing this? The cab I quoted does nothing close to this... and that's not a criticism of Aguilar.

Here's my experience with this sort of thing: no matter how well intentioned or well controlled you perform tests like these, someone will call "BS". Because you really can't factor everything into a test like that and at best it is a tiny snapshot of performance with way too many variables.

Tl:dr - a general waste of time.

We are producing sound for an electrical musical instrument. That generally differs from accurate reproduction of music. So a lot of what we'd look for in one isn't all that relevant in the other. And IME the section of the buying public that wants two pages of detailed specs is very small. People can look at specs and get a preconceived notion of what a cab sounds like and easily be quite wrong.
Click to expand...

I sure don't plan a trip to your area any time soon and not willing to lay money out on what could be a splash in the pan that doesn't pan out. OTHER side of the coin.
Because no one else does it, does not instill confidence to me personally? You are correct, you can present data only to have people discount it. I believe only a portion of the specs "provided" by others myself. It is not held as gospel, even the observations of those respected during a honeymoon period are subject to (obvious if you read these boards) scrutiny?
 
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