Apparently yes. Otherwise this would be garden variety trolling, having nothing to do with the actual topic..
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Bugera Veyron Now Available
- Thread starter Acoustic356
- Start date
Apparently yes. Otherwise this would be garden variety trolling, having nothing to do with the actual topic..
To me it's about honesty. Uli-watts are only part of the deception.This obsession is real. It seems that for some, actual performance is trumped by written specs... they don't care how loud or clean an amp gets, if they think the spec is bogus they can't like what they hear. It's as if they've never heard amps with "better" reputations come up short against amps with bogus ratings. To the point where I've seen people who were otherwise happy with their gear become disenchanted over the specs. Or state that until someone slaps a lab coat on and provides charts they won't touch it. Must make for some fun non-gigs.
Does anyone have a functional 20 year old Uli-amp? A 10 year old Uli-amp? Crap quality IME.
I have some amps that are pretty old, still supported, and most likely will outlast me. I feel sorry for new fellas to bass gear that fall for the Uli-BS. Everyone should know they are buying form a liar before they pull the trigger.
Sorry Brad... love you bro. But cheap is what cheap is.
So your Veyron broke? Neither of mine did.
Love ya too. Does anyone have a 20 year old Bergantino amp?
BTW I've seen ten year old Behringer amps still working. But it makes for a good rant to assume otherwise. And I guess it would be stating the obvious but products can improve. Compare Kias and Hyundais from ten to fifteen years ago with now.
No sir, but the "Professional" Behringer mixer lasted 3 or 4 months though. I bought that before I knew about the deceptive practices. I don't care to deal with liars or thieves, much less one who is both. I don't doubt the Veyron has been great for you and others. I wouldn't buy one for a buck. Money comes pretty easy, my sole is worth more than money.So your Veyron broke? Neither of mine did.
Love ya too. Does anyone have a 20 year old Bergantino amp?
While there is definitely more of a difference in the quality of those vehicles from 10 to 15 years ago to the current offerings, I suggest that you don't even have to go back that far. Compare a Kia Sorento from 2012 to one of the current Sorento models. Same with the Hyundai....
Surprised Munjibunga didn't comment on your typo... he's into that sort of thing.
I can honestly say that my soul isn't tied to any gear I purchase or use. Sounds exhausting.
I can honestly say that my soul isn't tied to any gear I purchase or use. Sounds exhausting.
My main complaints with the Veyron are firstly they copied Genz's format down to the typeface in places,
and they couldn't even come up with a name of their own.
and they couldn't even come up with a name of their own.
Neither did Bugatti: the car's name was an homage to a racing (and test) driver of the past.
"Veyron: not just a river in Switzerland."
Well crap. I guess this means I need to throw away my jazz bass copy and my Kiesel Vanquish.
I'm not so sure this line of reasoning is the silver bullet that you think it is.
This obsession is real. It seems that for some, actual performance is trumped by written specs... they don't care how loud or clean an amp gets, if they think the spec is bogus they can't like what they hear. It's as if they've never heard amps with "better" reputations come up short against amps with bogus ratings. To the point where I've seen people who were otherwise happy with their gear become disenchanted over the specs. Or state that until someone slaps a lab coat on and provides charts they won't touch it. Must make for some fun non-gigs.
Exactly...and I have no illusions when it comes to their inflated power ratings...and as far what they really might be, I really don't care...it's way more than I need. And when i am asked how many watts...I just say alot. The number doesn't matter.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,656
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Is it ok with you guys to hold different companies and different price points to the same standard or are different standards acceptable?
Standard might not be the best word, because I definitely do hold products at different price points to different standards (think Ford vs. Ferrari), but I do personally expect companies to produce respectable products and not attempt to mislead consumers. Some of that might be in the eye of the beholder, so I try very hard (and largely succeed) to not pass judgement on others for their preferences, but I know where I stand in terms of my own views of certain companies and products themselves.
With that being said, this thread speaks for itself.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,656
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
When one company states their rated power in RMS terms while another company uses another term (say peak or undefined) resulting in a much higher published number (unrelated to actual performance) that a customer may base a purchasing decision on.
There have been several discussions on TB about holding all manufacturers to the same standards, but this doesn't appear (from this thread) to be as important to some of you guys under some (convenient) circumstances.
Ok, I think I understand your point and I’ll try my best to provide my humble perspective.
First, is there an agreed upon standard for the rating of amp specifications in the industry? My understanding is that there isn’t. I do know that the RMS rating is widely accepted but there seems to be some question about whether or not that standard is the best way to give an indication of how a bass amp should perform. If what I’ve said thus far is reasonably correct, I honestly feel that there needs to be an industry wide standard that governs how all amp specifications should be described. If that was in place, then each manufacturer should be held to the same standards, regardless of price, in my opinion.
Now for the second part. I don’t feel that most of the guys in this thread think that amp specs are unimportant. The way that I interpret what is being said is that they value the real world performance of the product more than the specs. Let me try to explain. Say that you have two amps that are rated at 500 watts RMS but there is clearly a difference in how one of the amps performs in comparison to the other. That amp just doesn’t seem to be as powerful and responsive as the other. I may not be doing the best job of explaining this but in the scenario that I just described the specs, while helpful, really wouldn’t be the best indicator of amp performance. In other words, on paper the amps appear to be the same. When in use, there’s a significant difference. Am I making sense?
If I have misrepresented anyone’s thoughts on the matter, please feel free to clear me up….
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Here's the issue as I see it. The argument has been made here that users use their ears or know the difference in specs, so they don't matter.
If that's the case, then why wouldn't the manufacturer use more industry standard (even if not formal) ratings so that less techicaly proficient or inexperienced consumers can do more apples to apples comparisons? I'd argue there's only one reason to use peak numbers as the primary power listing: to mislead.
Amp quality and actual performance aside, I do take issue with misleading marketing, and do my best to not support companies that I feel are trying to go that route. That goes for any product category.
My point is that some manufacturers don't feel that RMS is the thing. Isn't it based more on being able to provide constant power? Bass playing is peaky though. It's not just Music Group offerings that are using what is perceived as vague ratings. I've owned some amps that just simply state the power as _____ watts. Is that RMS, Peak or something else? Come together and agree on a standard then hold each manufacturer accountable. Also, I say again. I don't feel that most feel that specs don't matter. I think they feel they are are only a piece of the puzzle when considering an amp....
One more thing. In the scenario that I described previously regarding the two 500 watt RMS amps, if those amps have a significant difference in performance would it truly be an apples to apples comparison based on the specs?
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