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Buzz Feiten Tuning System - I don't understand.
- Thread starter t77mackie
- Start date
It's accurate.
Barnum is also falsely credited with saying, "a fool and his money are soon parted". This was a malicious lie by a newspaper reporter who was jacked because he couldn't get free tickets to the circus.
/derail.
Barnum is also falsely credited with saying, "a fool and his money are soon parted". This was a malicious lie by a newspaper reporter who was jacked because he couldn't get free tickets to the circus.
/derail.
Nobody understands irony or satire these days. I call it Internet age literary device challenged.
OT, the buzz system is great if you buy it installed on a bass. If not, don't bothers.
OT, the buzz system is great if you buy it installed on a bass. If not, don't bothers.
About 10 years ago, I traveled from Columbus, MS to a shop in Birmingham, AL to have my Hartke XL bass reworked for the BF system. 2 hour drive later, I bring the bass in to the BF guy who I spoke with on the phone. He then proceeds to talk me out of the whole deal over the next half hour.
I haven't looked back since.
Well, until now : )
I haven't looked back since.
Well, until now : )
It is a compromise. Standard tuning works like this (a paraphrase):
Tune so the open string is on pitch and adjust the intonation at the saddle so the 12th fret harmonic is the same (but a higher octave). The issue is that the first fret will be sharp when you fret it because you are stretching the string, the second fret is less so because the stretching is less and so forth.
Buzz Feiten tuning works like this (a paraphrase):
The first fret is "shortened" by moving the nut so worst-offending first fret is not as sharp. In addition, BFTS uses non-standard tuning (you need a special tuner). The tuning is adjusted by a few cents (a small enough amount that most people would not notice it) such that on average the pitch of all fretted notes are closer to their theoretical correct pitch than when using standard tuning.
This is reminiscent of the tempered tuning used in a piano.
Is it worth it? For bass, I would say it is nice to have but not necessary. Personally, I would be willing to pay an extra $50-75 to have BFTS on any bass or guitar, which is a likely price or value on a new instrument that includes it. Unfortunately, to do it aftermarket the price is something like $200+.
Wouldn't a intrument that uses a zero fret instead of a nut eliminate this problem just as well?
No because the extra stiffness in this spot comes from the proximity of the end of the string. A fret 0 is just the same as a nut.
The Buzz Feiten arrangement does wonders when you play chords. Cool on a guitar. On bass, it doesn't hurt but it's not very useful either.
The Buzz Feiten arrangement does wonders when you play chords. Cool on a guitar. On bass, it doesn't hurt but it's not very useful either.
A nut is the same as a zero fret when they are set at the same height.
I've never played a Buzz Feiten system guitar but I have installed about a dozen "brand name here" compensated top nuts on various electric and acoustic guitars including a 12 string. I must say that they definitely help chords sound more in tune, especially those made in the first 5 frets and for all positions for anything with an un-wound G string. The biggest difference made is where the string height at the top nut is left high on purpose to give the ability to bend strings in the first few frets for R&R on electric or for flat pickers on acoustic.
On guitars where the top nut height is set the same as I would for most bass players, fret height + a few thousandths, a compensated top nut does not make a very noticeable difference.
I highly recommend a compensated top nut for R&R guitar or flat pickers, but don't think it's worth it for bass unless the string height at the top nut must be high for the style of the player.
mech
Did I miss something in this thread? I thought that moving the nut closer compensates for the extra tension on a string closer to the nut (bridge too, but that's another thread)... pushing a string 5mm out of the path at the 12th fret, easy; pushing a string 5mm out at the 1st, not so much, and it makes the string go sharp. And yeah, a zero fret would help a lot (always loved the concept and have wondered why so few manufacturers use it - go Mike Tobias!)...
...so does anyone know the magic measurement that the nut is moved? Seems like an easy mod...
...so does anyone know the magic measurement that the nut is moved? Seems like an easy mod...
although I doubt it has much REAL value in most bass playing situations there is a lot of truth to the whole premise - please do a little reading, a little education goes a LONG way in life (and music)
if you're playing funk or rock or pop it's really sort of a luxury for a bass and nobody cares
however, if you played a lot of chordal stuff or serious ensemble things with other serious players it can make a difference especially harmonically
I first learned about this 40+ yrs ago - my grandfather sold & tuned pianos - he showed me that he could use a pitchfork or strobe tuner (old school) and tune an instrument perfectly - string by string - they were perfectly to pitch
but, play a chord - it was awful - just nasty - it's similar to perfect pitch as opposed to 'relative' pitch - a piano tuner tunes to pitch and then 'cheats' the tuning, ever so slightly, a few cents as mentioned above to get the instrument to harmonize properly
hence the 'well tempered' clavier concept - tempered meaning nudged into tune with itself - it's physics really - the science of frequencies etc
if you're playing funk or rock or pop it's really sort of a luxury for a bass and nobody cares
however, if you played a lot of chordal stuff or serious ensemble things with other serious players it can make a difference especially harmonically
I first learned about this 40+ yrs ago - my grandfather sold & tuned pianos - he showed me that he could use a pitchfork or strobe tuner (old school) and tune an instrument perfectly - string by string - they were perfectly to pitch
but, play a chord - it was awful - just nasty - it's similar to perfect pitch as opposed to 'relative' pitch - a piano tuner tunes to pitch and then 'cheats' the tuning, ever so slightly, a few cents as mentioned above to get the instrument to harmonize properly
hence the 'well tempered' clavier concept - tempered meaning nudged into tune with itself - it's physics really - the science of frequencies etc
oh, and BTW, somebody built a guitar or bass - I forget which - that actually had compensating frets - meaning located by string to get the best relative pitch position by position
it was crazy - the frets staggered under each string to try and correct for sharpness or flatness - butt ugly
it was crazy - the frets staggered under each string to try and correct for sharpness or flatness - butt ugly
I saw that Henrik from Dirty Loops had a bass built like that. He's a special talent; I hope he can hear the difference (and I hope I can too!)...
Zombie Resurrect: I know this is five years old, but I have an odd predicament. I'm a left handed bass player but I restring the bass right handed. Low E on bottom. So I flip the nut or buy a right handed nut and readjust the bridge to the new right handed string nut. I'm not very scientific, I can hear the two octaves of notes and when I use harmonics and they match the notes darn near spot on for me.
So here's my issue: I found an MTD bass that is nearly everything I want out of a bass. It's a lefty, right color, maple fretboard, MM pickup, active electronics with V/B/M/T. But it has the BF system on it! I wonder if I could pull that nut off and just put a standard 38mm or 41mm nut on there and shape/carve it to fit the action to the first fret, then adjust the bridge to the standard nut? I hope someone out there has an idea for me. Here's the bass I really like, it's an MTD Kingston bass.
Thanks for anyone who cares to answer!
So here's my issue: I found an MTD bass that is nearly everything I want out of a bass. It's a lefty, right color, maple fretboard, MM pickup, active electronics with V/B/M/T. But it has the BF system on it! I wonder if I could pull that nut off and just put a standard 38mm or 41mm nut on there and shape/carve it to fit the action to the first fret, then adjust the bridge to the standard nut? I hope someone out there has an idea for me. Here's the bass I really like, it's an MTD Kingston bass.
Thanks for anyone who cares to answer!
To De-Buzz an instrument, you need to move the new nut back (toward the headstock) by 0.030". You can use a 0.030" thick shim between the end of the fingerboard and the nut, or you can seat the nut against the fingerboard and trim the front face back on an angle or a step. As long as the witness points (the front edges of the slots) end up 0.030" past the end of the fingerboard, it will be back to normal. Don't move the bridge or anything else, just reset the intonation as normal.
One note: If that MTD came from the factory with the Buzz system installed, then you may want to check the installation carefully. I believe some factory installations used a special nut which slightly overhangs the end of the fingerboard. That allowed them to use the same fingerboard and slotting for Buzz and Non-Buzz instruments, and easily be able to switch them. If it looks like the nut is overhanging the fingerboard by 0.030", then you can pop it off of there and put a standard nut in its place.
One note: If that MTD came from the factory with the Buzz system installed, then you may want to check the installation carefully. I believe some factory installations used a special nut which slightly overhangs the end of the fingerboard. That allowed them to use the same fingerboard and slotting for Buzz and Non-Buzz instruments, and easily be able to switch them. If it looks like the nut is overhanging the fingerboard by 0.030", then you can pop it off of there and put a standard nut in its place.
I believe the MTD Kingston Artist model uses a zero fret which pretty much takes the nut out of contention.
Riis
Turnaround
Commercial User
Fussing about exact intonation intonation is an exercise in futility. For instance, did you know that E in the key of C is not the same pitch as E in the key of F? And that G# and Ab are different pitches depending on the key? it's a bit tricky but to understand it you need to get a grasp on the structure of our 12-tone scale and the physics of the harmonic series. Fascinating study, and if you are OCD it may drive you away from music entirely.
