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Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 12!!!)

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#622
peterpalmieri said:
Didn't spend a ton of time but I am really digging it. I was afraid this bass was going to be a sizzly brightmare and it's just about the opposite. Fairly polite but very clear and articulate. As I would have it I have a bright LG (Honduran board) and a warm LM. There are some similarities but the mids are very different and it's pretty cool.

I have a friend of mines Marcus Miller 4 in the basement (a great one) and that is a fun comparison. The Marcus bass is heavier then the LM by a decent margin and it's a 4. The Marcus is much brighter with more bight, to achieve a similar tone with the LM I am pumping about 40% treble boost and rolling off the tone 20%. It's the perfect fingerstyle tone thus far with those settings. Great warm and clear slap tone with the treble flat no tone rolled off with 20% bass boost.

I'm sure my opinions will change a few times as my ear get's used to it. It's amazing that the majority of ash/maple J basses I've played just feel a little bit tighter then a 60s spec. Maybe tight isn't the right term but that's the best I can come up with.
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It's always amazing to me that, in spite of all the blah blah blah of you need a bass of this weight to sound like this, or you need this wood to sound like that, etc. etc., that in reality every piece of wood and combinations of pieces of wood with electronics sounds different. Heavy basses sounding bright and skanky, light basses sounding bright and skanky, 70's style instruments sounding a bit dark and warm, 60's style instruments sounding bright and aggressive.

It's not that simple, and every build results in its own magic... sometimes quite unexpected:)
 
#624
Chef said:
concur, totally.

there's a "range of expected norms" I think, but, it sure does all add up with great variance.
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Sorry you are on the road to somewhere else when I'm on the road and playing in your home town. Bummer. Maybe a hang next time!

I have an UGLY early flight tomorrow morning... not sure why I'm still up! Long client meeting during the day for my day gig, and then a big fancy schmancy gig at the Missouri Athletic Club tomorrow night... then off to Columbia on Saturday for a LONG gig (one of those wedding things where I'm playing the ceremony, the cocktail hour, and the dance gig.... 6 hours of tunes!). It will be a Markbass/Epifani/LM weekend!
 
#628
KJung said:
I've become a bit of a Bertantino AE fanboy, but my old trusty 410UL with the F500 TOTALLY does the job. Nice rig, and a really nice matchup with the LM, which kind of likes that open, airy Epifani UL voicing.
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the AEs are a little too sterile for my sound (which we've already established will NEVER be your sound haha) but the Epifani/Markbass combo REALLY suits the AC's for sure....and you gotta love those 6 hour wedding gigs!
 
#629
KJung said:
It's always amazing to me that, in spite of all the blah blah blah of you need a bass of this weight to sound like this, or you need this wood to sound like that, etc. etc., that in reality every piece of wood and combinations of pieces of wood with electronics sounds different. Heavy basses sounding bright and skanky, light basses sounding bright and skanky, 70's style instruments sounding a bit dark and warm, 60's style instruments sounding bright and aggressive.

It's not that simple, and every build results in its own magic... sometimes quite unexpected:)
Click to expand...

the weight is for the impact and attack, not necessarily the brightness. id be curious to see the variation in his pickup winding. hotter pickups in a heavy ash maple bass is going to shift the tone profile. theres a 66 jazz on the bay right now with pickups that are wound in the 6k range. my 66 jazz had pickups that were 10k and 9k. the difference in sound between those two basses is going to be primarily the pickups and not the differences in the alder.
 
#631
I know this is all a moving target as I am getting used to the new bass...

The Wood:
The bass seems to be producing everything I'd want from it when it's not pluged in, bright punchy, clear and articulate.

The Electronics:
I still really like the treble boosted 40-50%, bass about 15% and the VTC backed off about 20%. It sounds just perfect finger style, but it is a little clanky when slapping with not enough meat. I am sure I will stumble onto a happy medium. For slap the standard 15% bass boost sounds pretty sweet I need to spend more time dialing in that tone.

EDIT: 6/14 I'm backing away from the excessive treble boost. It does help to elulate that MM bass but generally I like the bass with just a little bass boost...

I've been so used to the highs being there without any preamp help on both the LG and my UV70. I think this actually works out pretty nice, I could remove the treble boost on my LG it really serves no function.

The pickups:
When I got my LG I spent weeks making slight adjustments to the pickup height to get it exactly where I wanted it. I am guessing I will start doing that a week in or so on the LM to get it dialed in where I want it.

I know there has been some talk from Kirk about a "70s wind" Jimmy is working on but these are the standard pickups. That may also be playing into the difference in what I expected to hear.

The neck profile:
Bouncing back and forth from the LG to LM I can really notice the slimness of the LG and that fat/chunky almost P bass shape back in first position. It doesn't bother me in the slightest but it does change the overall feel of the bass from the other ACs I've experienced.

Tone:
You can almost feel the weight of the notes attributed to the fairly heavy ash body and the 1 piece maple neck the notes just pop off the board in a way that kicks you in the butt especially with a little left hand muting. I think what I am missing without boosting the treble is being able to hear the SS windings on the frets. On my LG or any of the Sadowsky's I've played boosting that treble brings out a harshness that is not musical, and on rare occassions helpful in a bad room. With this LM boosting the treble pulls the windings and frets into the forefront.

Other stuff:
In a very strange way for those of you who have played an old 51' P bass there always seems to be a pop (on the low mids) and clarity to the notes that has some striking similarities to this LM. I may attribute that to the thicker neck profile or the 1 piece neck. I'm really guessing on that one though.
 
#632
peterpalmieri said:
...the difference in what I expected to hear...
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You've mentioned this a couple times now, but I haven't really seen you quantify this. Could you explain what it is that you expected to hear that you're not hearing, or what you're hearing that you didn't expect?
 
#633
Vic said:
You've mentioned this a couple times now, but I haven't really seen you quantify this. Could you explain what it is that you expected to hear that you're not hearing, or what you're hearing that you didn't expect?
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I will do my best but I ain't no literary scholar:D

My experience with late 70s jazz basses is limited to probably less then a dozen basses I've spent significant time with over the years, some modified, some not. Some great basses and some not so good. Also a handful of Marcus Miller signature basses, one friends in particular which kills (although the lack of VTC) limits the tonal options. I also owned a '73 for a long time. Never any luck with a 5 string I'd consider on par.

The ones that I really liked in many cases had a treble response that was almost a beast that needed to be tamed. A bass that if played with poor technique sounded like a mess of fret noise but when finessed properly sings. The good ones were not over the top and also had a nice pronounced low end that was like a bell, no woofyness to the notes. The mids very clear with little growl to them.

This bass is so new that it's hard to pass to much judgement and I'm trying to call it as I hear it. That treble response that I associate with these basses is more tame. What I would expect to hear from the hi beams in that range is almost as if the strings were very old or had properties of flat wounds (very slightly). It still has that bell like tone to the bottom of the note that you'd expect. Not much lower mid growl that I associate and would expect from an LG type instrument, again what I'd expect from this instrument. There is no blanket over the tone it is very clear and prounced just not aggressive up top.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing just different then I expected. I think there will be a lot of clarity and smoothness in the middle of the notes playing with a band with what seems to be the standard 10% bass boost. In cases where I might normally roll back the tone I am guessing I won't have to with this bass. When I want to get my ganky aggressive tone I will dial it in.

In short I guess what I expected was more ganky agressiveness that I would have to dial out when I wanted to sit back and provide round clear notes. It seems this bass is already providing that and the ganky aggressiveness needs to be dialed in.

EDIT: what I am referring to as treble I may be mistaking for the upper limits of the mids
 
#634
peterpalmieri said:
This bass is so new that it's hard to pass to much judgement and I'm trying to call it as I hear it. That treble response that I associate with these basses is more tame. What I would expect to hear from the hi beams in that range is almost as if the strings were very old or had properties of flat wounds (very slightly). It still has that bell like tone to the bottom of the note that you'd expect. Not much lower mid growl that I associate and would expect from an LG type instrument, again what I'd expect from this instrument. There is no blanket over the tone it is very clear and prounced just not aggressive up top.
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FWIW, this is somewhat similar to what I experienced with that LM4 Deluxe I had a short while back. It was not nearly as bright as my '73 Jazz (or other ash/maple J-basses in my arsenal, like my Skyline DJ4), at least not in passive mode. You could certainly dial that in with the preamp, but I do like to play in passive mode sometimes. I wish I would have been able to directly compare the LM4 Deluxe to my '08 LG4 Classic, but the LG4 seems to be brighter and more clear (but still with that lovely alder/rosewood authority through the mids) than the LM4.

I will say this, though, about that LM4 Deluxe, it was more full and rich in the lower mids than I normally expect from an ash/maple J-bass, and it did nail the "growliness" I expect from a '70s style Jazz. But like you, I guess it did vary from my expectations a little bit, at least with regard to the high end.

Tom.
 
#635
peterpalmieri said:
I will do my best but I ain't no literary scholar:D

Not much lower mid growl that I associate and would expect from an LG type instrument, again what I'd expect from this instrument. There is no blanket over the tone it is very clear and prounced just not aggressive up top.


In short I guess what I expected was more ganky agressiveness that I would have to dial out when I wanted to sit back and provide round clear notes. It seems this bass is already providing that and the ganky aggressiveness needs to be dialed in.
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Hello Peter ,

Funny that you mention this .

I must admit that i had the same (first) experience regarding the lower mid growl on my LM 5 . The lower mid growl is kind of 'tame'.

But maybe the bass is too new and should be played for a while or so.

But overall its a great bass with a very "round musical open tone ".
 
#637
tombowlus said:
FWIW, this is somewhat similar to what I experienced with that LM4 Deluxe I had a short while back. It was not nearly as bright as my '73 Jazz (or other ash/maple J-basses in my arsenal, like my Skyline DJ4), at least not in passive mode. You could certainly dial that in with the preamp, but I do like to play in passive mode sometimes. I wish I would have been able to directly compare the LM4 Deluxe to my '08 LG4 Classic, but the LG4 seems to be brighter and more clear (but still with that lovely alder/rosewood authority through the mids) than the LM4.
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Wow.

I have to say this is quite surprising, and Peter's apparent surprise also really makes sense to me now. I wonder if Jimmy changed his pickup winds at some point? I mean, even with my LG, I pretty much never need to boost highs, and it's plenty bright for me... I could see MAYBE boosting the highs a little in some cases, but not typically. This also doesn't at least seem to be the case with the clips of Ken's LM, and also doesn't seem like what I recall from the LM I had shortly a while ago.

Anyway, very interesting...
 
#638
Vic said:
Wow.

I have to say this is quite surprising, and Peter's apparent surprise also really makes sense to me now. I wonder if Jimmy changed his pickup winds at some point? I mean, even with my LG, I pretty much never need to boost highs, and it's plenty bright for me... I could see MAYBE boosting the highs a little in some cases, but not typically. This also doesn't at least seem to be the case with the clips of Ken's LM, and also doesn't seem like what I recall from the LM I had shortly a while ago.

Anyway, very interesting...
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+1
 
#639
On my LG5, I run treble boost up 20-30% a lot, but, when I do, I trim passive tone by that much or more.
I also tend to run bass boost up 15%-ish.
 
#640
Vic said:
Wow.

I have to say this is quite surprising, and Peter's apparent surprise also really makes sense to me now. I wonder if Jimmy changed his pickup winds at some point? I mean, even with my LG, I pretty much never need to boost highs, and it's plenty bright for me... I could see MAYBE boosting the highs a little in some cases, but not typically. This also doesn't at least seem to be the case with the clips of Ken's LM, and also doesn't seem like what I recall from the LM I had shortly a while ago.

Anyway, very interesting...
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I concur. It would be a very rare set of stage circustance where I'd use significant active treble boost on my LG5. My LM5 seems to be different from Ken's in the upper region but shares some similarities to Tom and Bacco. The good news is that the 40% treble boost puts this bass pretty close to what I hear from Ken's clips.

Unplugged it's all there (I think) which leads me to believe the difference lies somewhere in the pickup winding .

Jason (vision) no need to start freaking out it's a great bass...
 
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