Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 12!!!)

[YCBass]

+1 to Vic's last post also...

I really need to time the next completed LM5 at the shop so I can check one out again and really decide if I will follow through with the Rosewood board order. I happened to be on vacation in Miami last week when Pete's was done. I've been thinking more and more about it and feel like I should stay truer to what is a typical 70's J. I say truer because Rosewood was offered and made but not as common it seems. And I say typical as in it's what most of us think about first.

Also, if I go with Maple I will most likely lose the blocks and binding... And less cash will leave my pocket, sounds kinda nice.

 

[narud]

How would you characterize the difference in tone as the K's go up from 6K to 10K?

the less amount of turns on the bobbin gives you an airier, more extended treble sound thats very wide range. the 9k range pickups are grindier in the upper mids, more aggressive (whatever aggressive means) but sacrifices upper treble sheen and string noise for that.

a 60's jazz could have pickups that are wound anywhere. thats one of the thing that makes them a crapshoot. ive posted this before that my own 62 slab has a neck pickup thats wound to 5.3k and a bridge pickup thats 8.6k. the lower wind neck pickup thinned out the tone. i replaced the neck pickup with a duncan antiquity 1 thats wound to the same range as the bridge and that bass is a beast. sounds like some larry graham ****.

on the other hand, a 70 jazz is going to have pickups that are wound in the 7k range. the variation isnt there like it was in the 60's. thats why those basses have that upper treble sheen passive.

 

[narud]

FWIW, this is somewhat similar to what I experienced with that LM4 Deluxe I had a short while back. It was not nearly as bright as my '73 Jazz (or other ash/maple J-basses in my arsenal, like my Skyline DJ4), at least not in passive mode. You could certainly dial that in with the preamp, but I do like to play in passive mode sometimes.

when i was considering buying one of jimmys basses this was an issue i talked about with him regarding the lm's. i a/b'd basses with my 78 jazz and told him i was looking for a 70's style 5 that had the type of high end my fender did. i wanted pickups that had that sound to begin with rather than trying to dial it in with the pre because imo, adding the highs in with the pre starts sounding electronic or processed.

 

[Chef]

This fits with my G&L experiences; the early G&L single coil J pups that look kinda like Nord Big Singles are wound to about that 8.3kohms range.
The early G&L L1000 and L2000 pickups are wound to nearly 9kohms. Big, hot, grindy=awesome.
The SD SCPB-3 that was in my 51 reissue P bass was in that mid-8 range, and that's also what I had Carey wind the custom pups for my 51P5.
They have beef, punch, grind, and-at least for me-plenty of "hear the rounds bounce of the board" top end.

My LG is great at that as well. I have no idea what those are wound to.

the less amount of turns on the bobbin gives you an airier, more extended treble sound thats very wide range. the 9k range pickups are grindier in the upper mids, more aggressive (whatever aggressive means) but sacrifices upper treble sheen and string noise for that.

a 60's jazz could have pickups that are wound anywhere. thats one of the thing that makes them a crapshoot. ive posted this before that my own 62 slab has a neck pickup thats wound to 5.3k and a bridge pickup thats 8.6k. the lower wind neck pickup thinned out the tone. i replaced the neck pickup with a duncan antiquity 1 thats wound to the same range as the bridge and that bass is a beast. sounds like some larry graham ****.

on the other hand, a 70 jazz is going to have pickups that are wound in the 7k range. the variation isnt there like it was in the 60's. thats why those basses have that upper treble sheen passive.

 

[narud]

I know this is all a moving target as I am getting used to the new bass...

The Wood:
The bass seems to be producing everything I'd want from it when it's not pluged in, bright punchy, clear and articulate.

i had a mia 75 ri jazz that was like this and was what made me start investigating pickups. it was bright acoustically, but the stock pickups and the majority of the replacements i was putting in all sounded dark and didnt match what i was hearing acoustically. then i bought some 70's gray bottoms and there was the sound. matched my 78 jazz in frequency response. i then bought a multimeter and started taking readings on all the pickups. i vow to never geek out that hard again

 

[Vic]

At some point, I'm gonna' measure my LG's pickups. Not sure exactly when, but I definitely will. I'm really curious now.

Peter, could you measure your LM's pickups? I'm also very curious about those. Maybe we could compare notes based on Joe's input?

 

[jonno1707]

I have a set of original 1977 Grey bottom J pickups that measure 7.02K and 7.5K sounds like they should kill in my Marcus Miller 4...

 

[narud]

I have a set of original 1977 Grey bottom J pickups that measure 7.02K and 7.5K sounds like they should kill in my Marcus Miller 4...

the only problem is that matching pickups wound that low up with a preamp doesnt sound that great. without the loading of a passive system, the onboard pre makes things really hitech sounding, almost brittle. theres a sweetspot that really works with a pre. in the 75ri i had, i put one of jimmy's pres in it and it sounded like hell. if youre using an onboard pre, you need the pickups a little hotter than that.

i hate to admit this amount of geekness, but my favorite tone with my 78 jazz involves using an oldschool coil cable for its high capicitance running from the bass to an outboard pre.

 

[Chef]

don't be a hate-ah

thx for sharing!
(I still have the coil cable that came with my 1972P...)

 

[svtb15]

Dont forget there is more to pickups sound than just DC resistance.. there is inductance , capacitance stuff etc.

At some point, I'm gonna' measure my LG's pickups. Not sure exactly when, but I definitely will. I'm really curious now.

Peter, could you measure your LM's pickups? I'm also very curious about those. Maybe we could compare notes based on Joe's input?

 

[Boombass76]

I am finally the very proud owner of an Alleva Coppolo LM5 Deluxe

I have had it for a couple of weeks, and so far, I have brought it along on two gigs. Initially, I found that it was VERY differently voiced compared to my Celinder J-Update (my main bass for years), so I needed to tweak quite a bit on the amp (Markbass F500 -> Epi UL410) to get the sound I was after. In fact, I never really got it that first time...

However, I did notice right away that this bass has the best B-string I have ever tried (and I have tried a lot!). It felt like the most natural extension of the E-string! Very impressive - and it's a 34"!!!

Then, I messed with my rig at home and found that I needed to bump the low mids and cut slightly in the high-mids. When in active mode and only boosting the low and high bands by approx. 5%, the result was no less than a punchy and clear 'Marcus' kinda sound. Only, this bass nailed it on the B-string as well! I had a MM V for a while, and though the E-G string sounded nice, the B-string was really crappy...

So, for now I have very high hopes that this bass is the one that will, eventually, kill all future GAS attacks ... OK, that may never happen, but it's a really, really great bass that just oozes quality and great craftmanship in both looks, feel, tone and playability!

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[narud]

Dont forget there is more to pickups sound than just DC resistance.. there is inductance , capacitance stuff etc.

absolutely, but being everyone is essentially doing the same thing with the same materials, its still is a relatively decent measure. i know pickup guys like jason lollar will tell you to not base too much off of resistance alone, but with all the pickups ive tried, its worked ok to make some generalizations.

so low inductance give a brighter pickup? well the pickups with lower winds and lower dc resistance also have the lower inductance ratings too. i havent seen anyones published specs on jazz bass pickups have a high dc resistance rating and a low inductance rating yet.

 

[peterpalmieri]

At some point, I'm gonna' measure my LG's pickups. Not sure exactly when, but I definitely will. I'm really curious now.

Peter, could you measure your LM's pickups? I'm also very curious about those. Maybe we could compare notes based on Joe's input?

I don't know how to but if someone can point me in the right direction I'd be willing to do it. I think I have a multimeter that will work.

In any case it sounds to me like Jimmy winds all his pickups to the same specs so I'd guess there is not a lot of variation.

It makes me feel better that others have a similar experience with their LMs. When boosting the treble and backing off the VTC it doesn't sound processed playing fingerstyle but it's a little to cruching slapping. Hopefully over the weekend I'll find a happy medium. I'd like to do the best dialing in I can from the bass and leave the amp out of the equation if possible.

 

[narud]

I don't know how to but if someone can point me in the right direction I'd be willing to do it. I think I have a multimeter that will work.

In any case it sounds to me like Jimmy winds all his pickups to the same specs so I'd guess there is not a lot of variation.

It makes me feel better that others have a similar experience with their LMs. When boosting the treble and backing off the VTC it doesn't sound processed playing fingerstyle but it's a little to cruching slapping. Hopefully over the weekend I'll find a happy medium. I'd like to do the best dialing in I can from the bass and leave the amp out of the equation if possible.

variation happens. even with the mass produced machine wound pickups. ive got a set of fender custom shop 60's that has a neck pickup that reads out at 6.8k. their published spec is 7.1 or something like that. i bought a set of nj4's and the neck pickup reads out between 8.6 and 8.7k. the last neck pickup read out at 8.3k. they all sound slightly different.

 

[Vic]

Dont forget there is more to pickups sound than just DC resistance.. there is inductance , capacitance stuff etc.

I haven't forgotten. Just trying to look at one thing at a time, is all.

 

[peterpalmieri]

when i was considering buying one of jimmys basses this was an issue i talked about with him regarding the lm's. i a/b'd basses with my 78 jazz and told him i was looking for a 70's style 5 that had the type of high end my fender did. i wanted pickups that had that sound to begin with rather than trying to dial it in with the pre because imo, adding the highs in with the pre starts sounding electronic or processed.

For the record it sounds to me like this is the answer to Vic's question about the difference between what I expected to hear and what I am hearing. It does make me wonder why Ken's bass "may" be a an acception to the rule...

 

[jonno1707]

For comparison sake I would love to hear an LM wired up with a passive Vol-Vol-Tone circuit from a 70's jazz...

 

[Vic]

In any case it sounds to me like Jimmy winds all his pickups to the same specs so I'd guess there is not a lot of variation.

Does he? I'm not so sure this is the case... at least with the varying results posted here, though Joe is correct, even with the same spec there can be some variation. However, I wouldn't expect it to be as significant as it sounds like yours could be from mine... at least based on our impressions.

 

[vision]

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Nice!!!

 

[Vic]

For the record it sounds to me like this is the answer to Vic's question about the difference between what I expected to hear and what I am hearing. It does make me wonder why Ken's bass "may" be a an acception to the rule...

But that's just it... at least to me, Ken's sounds pretty much just like the one I had and the ones I played at NAMM. That's why I'm a little confused. Your description of a more tamed high end is not what I experienced across several basses that were, at least supposedly, the same spec. I would imagine this jibes with your previous experiences as well, hence your stated surprise.