Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 12!!!)

[tombowlus]

Sorry, reposted with better image quality.

No worries! Especially when it's a bass as good-looking as that one! Nice!

 

[peterpalmieri]

+1 I can honestly say that I've yet to touch the treble boost control on either my LG or LM in the years I've owned them. Both those basses sound reasonably 'period legit' to my ear (close enough in a mix anyway) in passive mode, and as you've heard in my clips, the only difference in active mode is the classic buffering effect you get with any active circuit (a bit more deep low end and a bit more sparkle way up high).

Seems like Jimmy revoiced the LM's quite a bit from the New York shop days based on Tom and Peter's comments. I guess that isn't good nor bad, but I like that very pronounced upper mid grind that, to me, defines the 70's sound. There still seems to be some confusion by some thinking that LG's somehow don't have treble extension. If anything, they can sound more 'sparkly' up top, since they don't have that strong upper mid grind that masks the top end sizzle a bit. However, dialing in an active treble control ain't gonna do it for most. Like you say, artificial and 'electronic' sounding. Again, the 70's thing to my ear is all about upper mid and lower treble grind, not pure upper treble sizzle.

As I've commented a zillion times before, the top end of my LG, if anything, has more pure upper treble sparkle than my LM... it's that brightness and grind in the LM's upper mid/lower treble that just kills in a more aggressive pop/funk setting.

That being said, I've played so many 70's J's, and they all sound quite different. I've played ones that sounded close to Marcus Miller's active tone in stock 'off the shelf' passive configuration, and I've played others that were quite dark, and had more mid punch and less grind.

Wood and its interaction with electronics is a funny thing and is quite hard to predict given spec only info.

That being said, Jimmy obviously changed his approach and spec and voicing on the LM's since mine was made in New York. I guess only the individual player can decide if that was a move in the positive direction.

In addition to the Marcus bass I had at the house last week, a friend also came by with a '78 last night. They both sound a little bit different then the LM, while also sounding different from one another. The '78 being all passive, but sounding "active".

Without those basses around to A/B it is harder to hear the difference in the upper mids/lower highs. My LM just sings and without those basses to directly compare to I doubt I would have made the comments I did about the tonal difference.

It's also worth noting Jimmy's pickups and preamps have not changed from his NYC days. I traded emails with Jimmy and he says any tonal difference would be associated with the wood only. My body is the same as any NYC the neck however is a little thicker in the lower positions and of course is a one piece (fingerboard and neck are the same piece of wood not two pieces glued together), I believe but am not quite sure that the headstock may be a touch larger. The body could be considered moderate weight, it's not super heavy as was both Fenders I referenced and not light like Ken's bass or the Sadowsky UV70 I had.

I don't want anyone to take my comments the wrong way, I totally love the sound and feel of this bass and was only attempting to call it as I hear it vs. the other basses I was able to get my hands on at the time.

I consider myself very fortunate to have what might be the ultimate 60s and 70s fenders in their modern 5 string form...

 

[KJung]

In addition to the Marcus bass I had at the house last week, a friend also came by with a '78 last night. They both sound a little bit different then the LM, while also sounding different from one another. The '78 being all passive, but sounding "active".

Without those basses around to A/B it is harder to hear the difference in the upper mids/lower highs. My LM just sings and without those basses to directly compare to I doubt I would have made the comments I did about the tonal difference.

It's also worth noting Jimmy's pickups and preamps have not changed from his NYC days. I traded emails with Jimmy and he says any tonal difference would be associated with the wood only. My body is the same as any NYC the neck however is a little thicker in the lower positions and of course is a one piece (fingerboard and neck are the same piece of wood not two pieces glued together), I believe but am not quite sure that the headstock may be a touch larger. The body could be considered moderate weight, it's not super heavy as was both Fenders I referenced and not light like Ken's bass or the Sadowsky UV70 I had.

I don't want anyone to take my comments the wrong way, I totally love the sound and feel of this bass and was only attempting to call it as I hear it vs. the other basses I was able to get my hands on at the time.

I consider myself very fortunate to have what might be the ultimate 60s and 70s fenders in their modern 5 string form...

+1 Every bass sounds quite different, even with the same electronics and spec'd similarly/identically. I had two Celinder Udates spec'd virtually identically (one was about a pound lighter than the other). One was the literal definition of 'Marcus Miller on Steroids' active J bass tone... massive low end, MASSIVE sizzle up top. The other one was low mid punchy, grindy in the upper mids, and a bit polite in the upper treble region. Go figure

My LM, as you can hear on the clips, is, as Narud describes, a bit more 'airy' sounding than some of the old late 70's J's I've played... nice low end punch but not massive down there, and a very present upper mid/lower treble grind and a very nice extended top end. I use about a 10% bass boost and that's it.

 

[Chef]

Lichtaffen;
Labella 760FL are much more motown that chromes.

 

[Boombass76]

+1 Every bass sounds quite different, even with the same electronics and spec'd similarly/identically. I had two Celinder Udates spec'd virtually identically (one was about a pound lighter than the other). One was the literal definition of 'Marcus Miller on Steroids' active J bass tone... massive low end, MASSIVE sizzle up top. The other one was low mid punchy, grindy in the upper mids, and a bit polite in the upper treble region. Go figure

+1 I have a 72 J (alder/maple, 70's spacing - the RA5 specs) that sounds VERY different from my 79 J. And my LM5 sounds very different from both of them, even thuogh it's actually closer to the 72 than the 79.

Ken, you mentioned the Celinder J-Update. How would you compare the sound of that bass to your LM5? I have both an LM5 and a J-Update 5 right now, and they sound like night and day (EXTREMELY DIFFERENT) even though they both seek to mimic a late 70's ash/maple bass with 70's spacing.

Both of them sound fantastic, but in unique ways, so they actually complement each other quite well. The natural sound of my Celinder is much less pleasing at first, but it sits in the mix like no other bass I own (or have owned). The LM5 sounds better on its own, but I need to work a little harder to find the perfect balance (probably due to that fact that I have only had it for a few weeks...).

BTW, the same goes for Precisions. I have owned/own 5 different P basses form the mid to late 70's, and all of them sounded different... Even the ones that were close in both manufacturing years and serial numbers. I think the 70's was quite an inconsistent century for Fender in terms of build procedures and quality. Some of the best basses I have ever played are 70's models - as is some of the worst...

 

[KJung]

+1 I have a 72 J (alder/maple, 70's spacing - the RA5 specs) that sounds VERY different from my 79 J. And my LM5 sounds very different from both of them, even thuogh it's actually closer to the 72 than the 79.

Ken, you mentioned the Celinder J-Update. How would you compare the sound of that bass to your LM5? I have both an LM5 and a J-Update 5 right now, and they sound like night and day (EXTREMELY DIFFERENT) even though they both seek to mimic a late 70's ash/maple bass with 70's spacing.

Both of them sound fantastic, but in unique ways, so they actually complement each other quite well. The natural sound of my Celinder is much less pleasing at first, but it sits in the mix like no other bass I own (or have owned). The LM5 sounds better on its own, but I need to work a little harder to find the perfect balance (probably due to that fact that I have only had it for a few weeks...).

BTW, the same goes for Precisions. I have owned/own 5 different P basses form the mid to late 70's, and all of them sounded different... Even the ones that were close in both manufacturing years and serial numbers. I think the 70's was quite an inconsistent century for Fender in terms of build procedures and quality. Some of the best basses I have ever played are 70's models - as is some of the worst...

My blue update was a Marcus Miller sizzle machine... HUGE low end, super juiced, massive 8K+ treble... grindy way up in the treble region, aggressive, etc. I LOVED it at home, but unless I was slapping on the gig, it just didn't have enough presence/punch in the mixes I perform in.

My LM is much tighter, more mid punch, and much more upper mid/lower treble grind than the super sizzle of my blue Celinder.

My natural Celinder Update (Vic owned it for a while as did Vision) was closer to my LM... more mids, not quite as juiced in the deep lows and upper treble... I prefer that '70's voicing (more grindy and punchy) to the over the top 'on steriods active sounding thing'.

Like you say, they all sounded different (Celinders use those Armstrong HC pickups, which is probably why my LM grinds more with true singles). My particular LM speaks to me like no other bass ever has, so I'm lucky there. I don't think it is because it is such a special bass or anything (although literally everyone that has played it has been pretty blown away), but rather that it just perfectly fits my tone goals, and does that in a very, very lightweight package (probably about 8.5-9 pounds or so... not sure... it is lighter than my Sadowsky Vintage).

Edit: Per your mention of the RA type spec, the A-C RA I had for a while was closer to my Blue Celinder... polite in the upper mids (not much lower treble grind, which I MUST have in a 70's spec), but VERY extended into the sizzle region, and not as punchy as my LM... smoother down low... more 'modern and active' sounding to me... a bit of scoop, and a lot of sizzle. All quite different. I assume that was due to the unique combination of alder body and gloss maple board (i.e., smooth, round and warm down low, and sizzly and upper treble extended up top).

There is a clip of my RA on my iComposition home page... link is in my profile. When you compare that to the LM/LG clip on iComposition, it tells the story pretty clearly. The RA clip is quite similar to the sound of my old, heavy, Blue Celinder Update.

 

[Lichtaffen]

Lichtaffen;
Labella 760FL are much more motown that chromes.

Thanks Chef. I tried those a while ago on another P bass and they felt way too stiff. Do they have lower gauge versions? The Chromes I have on the KBP are .45-.105 and they feel just right.

 

[Chef]

FL are the light gauge. They only get bigger from there.

 

[tombowlus]

I had my LG4 Classic out on its first gig this past weekend. With those other three "hippie sandwich" basses, I had to bring something with a more vintage vibe, eh?

It killed, of course!

 

[Lichtaffen]

^That's a beautiful LG, nice grain on the headstock.^

"Hippie Sandwich" - hahahahaha!

 

[lullbass]

f/s only
2008 LG5 alder / rosewood
Black nitrotrose w matching headstock
hip shot quick release bridge / clover leaf tuners
$4000.00

This is an amazing bass that sounds like the best 60's jazz bass I've ever played.....
The tone of this bass is unreal and it records like crazy. warm and punchy yet articulate and clear.
I hate to let this bass get away but unfortunately the 19mm spacing in too much for me.

 

[Baccomang]

f/s only
2008 LG5 alder / rosewood

I hate to let this bass get away but unfortunately the 19mm spacing in too much for me.
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Hello Lullbass ,

Nice LG 5 , is the 19 mm spacing due to the Hipshot bridge?

 

[LiF]

By the way, if you use the full word form for "I'm" and "Lovin", then "I'm Lovin' It" is a palindrome for "Ailing Vomit".

Incorrect. A palindrome, is a word, phrase or sequence which reads the same forwards or backwards, such as bob, nun, deed, madam etc.

 

[jonno1707]

I hate to let this bass get away but unfortunately the 19mm spacing in too much for me.
Nice LG 5 , is the 19 mm spacing due to the Hipshot bridge?

All Jimmy's basses are 19mm spacing...Do you have a custom bridge on your LM?

 

[Baccomang]

All Jimmy's basses are 19mm spacing...Do you have a custom bridge on your LM?

Hey Jonno ,

I dont have a custom bridge on my LM , but today i checked the Hipshot website and it seems they have different spacings ( but i guess Jimmy only uses the 19 mm spacing).

"Hipshot Style B Bass bridges are available in a wide variety of string spacing; in your choice of aluminum or brass. Type B saddles feature solid brass barrel saddles and quick release string loading. All Hipshot bridges are CNC machined from solid aluminum or brass billet. Precision side-to-side saddle fit provides maximum support for superb tone and rattle free performance

 

[KJung]

Hey Jonno ,

I dont have a custom bridge on my LM , but today i checked the Hipshot website and it seems they have different spacings ( but i guess Jimmy only uses the 19 mm spacing).

"Hipshot Style B Bass bridges are available in a wide variety of string spacing; in your choice of aluminum or brass. Type B saddles feature solid brass barrel saddles and quick release string loading. All Hipshot bridges are CNC machined from solid aluminum or brass billet. Precision side-to-side saddle fit provides maximum support for superb tone and rattle free performance

Most 5 strings have 19mm spacing, since that results in a 'between string' feel that is similar to the classic 4 string spacing. So, most boutique J's (virtually all) have the 'standard' 19mm spacing.

I guess if you are used to narrow spacing (like the Music Man 5 strings), or are a new 5 string user, the neck can feel pretty wide and big. However, with a little bit of time, most can adjust with no problem.

However, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. Also, remember that nut width can really make a difference in the feel of the 'size' of the neck independent of the bridge spacing. I love the more standard 1 7/8's nut spacing on J's like the Alleva and Sadowsky (I think that's the measurement). However, the 1 3/4" nut spacing of, for example, the FBass J Bass model makes that neck feel much smaller, even though the bridge spacing is still 19mm.

 

[Baccomang]

Most 5 strings have 19mm spacing, since that results in a 'between string' feel that is similar to the classic 4 string spacing. So, most boutique J's (virtually all) have the 'standard' 19mm spacing.

I guess if you are used to narrow spacing (like the Music Man 5 strings), or are a new 5 string user, the neck can feel pretty wide and big. However, with a little bit of time, most can adjust with no problem.

However, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. Also, remember that nut width can really make a difference in the feel of the 'size' of the neck independent of the bridge spacing.

Thanks Kjung ,

For the record : I am fine with my LM and 19 mm spacing .
Unfourtunately LullBass is not, its a pity its a great LG 5 he has got there.

 

[jonno1707]

Also, remember that nut width can really make a difference in the feel of the 'size' of the neck independent of the bridge spacing.

Very very true...If your used to a more narrow spacing you may want Jimmy to do a 1 3/4 nut width for you instead of his standard 1 7/8...

 

[KJung]

Thanks Kjung ,

For the record : I am fine with my LM and 19 mm spacing .
Unfourtunately LullBass is not, its a pity its a great LG 5 he has got there.

Yeah, that's a beautiful bass!

 

[Lichtaffen]

I wish I could justify buying another bass that costs more than the value of my car. That's a real beauty... wait, which Alleva Coppolo isn't absolutely beautiful? Good luck with the sale, I'm sure it will go quickly.