Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 17)

[Vic]

Wanted to finish my thought. The warrant says indian law does not allow the export of hs4407 but does allow the export of hs4408. I can't confirm if that's true or not.

What Gibson imported was labelled as hs4408 while the assertion was that it was actually hs4407.

Not sure why the CEO did not address that directly. Seems to be a summation of the recent raid issue.

Honestly, I don't believe we'll find out the whole truth until it's fettered out in court... and depending on how much detail they choose to share, we may not even get it all then.

To me, it's moot. The REAL issue is the Lacy act. It's horrible. It's massively dangerous. It needs to be re-written immediately. My ultimate hope is that will be the net result of what shakes out of all this.

We'll see. Keep yer fingers crossed. It's never easy to take power away from those in power.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Vic,

I agree this will be interesting to see how it turns out. Gibson obviously seems to believe they are doing things by the books and the FWS believes Gibson is breaking the law. The outcome of this could impact the entire industry.

It would be interesting if someone like Jimmy or another builder who imports materials could expand on the particulars.

From what the Gibson CEO says it seems they import rough cut fingerboards, is that correct? And is that common or do others import logs instead?

 

[peterpalmieri]

Here is an article that seems to layout both sides of the debate pretty clearly

Why Gibson Guitar Was Raided By The Justice Department : The Record : NPR

 

[Vic]

From what the Gibson CEO says it seems they import rough cut fingerboards, is that correct?

I would assume it is unless he's lying, which I have no way to gauge.

Thing is, that could vary as well... especially for a shop their size...

And is that common or do others import logs instead?

I'm guessing all of the above depending on tooling at the shop using the wood, pricing, availability, etc.

I'm guessing Gibson is big enough they could probably take any wood in any form and make it work for whatever they needed, so I would think they just have to make the most economical purchasing decision based on all the variables for a given wood and its intended use.

 

[Chef]

Labor costs being what they are, it's likely cheaper to have them roughed overseas.

 

[Vic]

Here is an article that seems to layout both sides of the debate pretty clearly

Why Gibson Guitar Was Raided By The Justice Department : The Record : NPR

I strongly disagree it lays out BOTH sides clearly... it only lays out Gibson's clearly. I read that one before.

Problem is, again, that whole Madagascar thing is from the 2009 raid, which is still open. There's two separate issues here unless this recent raid was somehow related to that and not a separate new raid based on Indian law, but I haven't seen/heard of any authoritative data explaining all this, and neither has the Gibson CEO...

And herein lies the rub, and the reason I still maintain we don't know what the deal is, because even Juszkiewicz himself doesn't!

But Juszkiewicz says the government won't tell him exactly how — or if — his company has violated that law.

"We're in this really incredible situation. We have been implicated in wrongdoing and we haven't been charged with anything," he says. "Our business has been injured to millions of dollars. And we don't even have a court we can go to and say, 'Look, here's our position.'"

 

[peterpalmieri]

Your right Vic it doesn't make things clear I misspoke. It did however give opinions on others about the issue, Martin, vintage guitar guys and attorneys. Martin said they stopped buying from madigascar around 2009, they seemed to see an issue and made a business decision to stop. Martin also is in favor of the Lacey act. The vintage guitar guys seem to indicate they are working to change some language to not look backwards at vintage instruments, but see problems with the current language. All more then I realized before I read this one.

 

[Vic]

Your right Vic it doesn't make things clear I misspoke. It did however give opinions on others about the issue, Martin, vintage guitar guys and attorneys. Martin said they stopped buying from madigascar around 2009, they seemed to see an issue and made a business decision to stop. Martin also is in favor of the Lacey act. The vintage guitar guys seem to indicate they are working to change some language to not look backwards at vintage instruments, but see problems with the current language. All more then I realized before I read this one.

Also, just to make sure my position on the Lacy act is clear... I'm actually for it... at least what it's really intended to be used for. I'm only against its current language, because of the (mis)use it allows.

 

[peterpalmieri]

To get back to our regularly scheduled program. This all makes the LM5 an even more attractive bass, mostly American wood, the skunk strip could get me in trouble I guess. Anyone concerned with their dalbergia negra LG or KBP send it my way for safe keeping.

 

[Vic]

To get back to our regularly scheduled program. This all makes the LM5 an even more attractive bass, mostly American wood, the skunk strip could get me in trouble I guess. Anyone concerned with their dalbergia negra LG or KBP send it my way for safe keeping.

My LG5 Indian Rosewood. I better put it up for sale quick before the gov't takes it from me.

 

[Chef]

I hear black choppers....

 

[Vic]

I hear black choppers....

In that case, I suggest you post an ad for yours immediately!

 

[Chef]

Aw h*** no.
That bass stays.

I've gotten delerious and come close to flipping it once or twice, and immediately come back to consciousness when I picked it up.

 

[Vic]

Aw h*** no.
That bass stays.

I've gotten delerious and come close to flipping it once or twice, and immediately come back to consciousness when I picked it up.

LOL!

I'm sitting in for three gigs with a horn band that plays a buncha' oldies including stuff from the 60's. I'm gonna' be practicing the set list tonight. Care to guess which bass I'll be using? Yeah, I thought you could.

Actually, there will be two... the other one will be my "P".

Also, even better, the way things are working out with this band and my regular one, there's one weekend in October where I literally have 4 gigs in 3 days. Thursday, Friday, and 2x on Saturday. Cool.

 

[Chef]

You can cover dang near everything with those two, and En-joy Yo-sef while you do.
Awesome.

 

[svtb15]

Wow.. Thats like saying " she's only a little pregnant".

Spoken like a politician . First you were for it and now you are against it.. You should run for office.. Only messing with ya.

I'm actually for it... at least what it's really intended to be used for. I'm only against its current language, because of the (mis)use it allows.

 

[Vic]

Wow.. Thats like saying " she's only a little pregnant".

Spoken like a politician . First you were for it and now you are against it.. You should run for office.. Only messing with ya.

I know you're just funnin' me but really, I've been consistent on this. It only needs to be re-written to properly protect endangered natural resources, and state things in sensible enforceable ways. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the intent of this act... only the implementation, as allowed by it's poor construction.

 

[YCBass]

To get back to our regularly scheduled program. This all makes the LM5 an even more attractive bass, mostly American wood, the skunk strip could get me in trouble I guess. Anyone concerned with their dalbergia negra LG or KBP send it my way for safe keeping.

Not to worry Pete, the skunk stripe is Walnut!

One question I have in all this is what happens to completed instruments they seize or confiscate?
Is there an all FWS employee cover band rehearsing somewhere with their shiny new toys?

 

[Chef]

FWIW:
I've not heard of *any* individual musician's axe being confiscated, or even hassled.
I'm not the most connected guy in the world, but I'm not the least, either.

So for the time, that question seems to be very hypothetical.

 

[sps500]

On the Sadowsky website Roger has posted that Dalbergia Negra is not recommended to be used on basses for players that travel internationally!