Club Alleva Coppolo (Part 7)

[narud]

When was the last time you slept.......(LOL).......?....

its like 10pm over here....its still early

 

[KJung]

i think there's a certain degree of custom spec'ing that just happens from either curiosity, listening to other peoples theories of what things "should" sound like over internet, and just gas that can cause the disappointing result. you know theres guys that order **** just to order it rather than need and their ears arent happening enough to tell the difference anyway. if you tell me that your atelier z with 60's spacing sounds exactly like your late 70's jazz, i know that i dont have to listen to your evaluations anymore


part of the issue is consistency. little things can make a big difference in tone. ive been through about 5 different sets of antiquity 2's recently. youd be hard pressed to say theres a definitive antiquity 2 sound because theyre all wound to different dc ratings. because of this, they all sounded different and made my 75 ri sound like a different bass depending on what set was in there. through two independent sets, i was able to determine that if the neck pickup was wound to around 8k and the bridge was wound to a little over mid 8k than i was going to have a set that was going to be gold for me. the only problem is some of the sets occasionally have pickups that are a lot hotter and sound different. probably one of the reasons different people will have completely different descriptions of the same model pickup. you could spec antiquity 2's in your build and not got what you expected at all. or you could spec duncans in your fodera and get aeros and always wonder why you bass doesnt sound the way you expected


if everyone just played an instrument and either dug it or not, certain developments might never have happened. to me, the take it or leave it is going to cost you more money. that 75 ri i bought from ace is a sick playing bass. amazing neck profile, great fretwork, totally solid build quality and i didnt like the sound of the stock pickups at all. should i totally ignore everything that the bass has going for it because i hate the stock sound and go and spend triple on a boutique version? i spent a couple hundred bucks on pickups and have exactly what i wanted tonally. i knew that the weight would give me part of what i was looking for. i just hadnt quite understood pickups enough yet to realize what it was going to take to get it there.

the boutique stuff isnt any different imo. if a luthiers vision encompasses 90% of what im going for and the builder is willing to change the other 10% to fulfill my need, than lets do it. if theyre not willing to compromise what they do or think im full of it, thats cool too






its funny, ive been pretty happy with a 4 string and a dtuner lately i know that ill get a 5 worked out some day, but the experimentation i did on the guts of this 75ri really helped me understand the effect different pickups and preamps have on each other.

+1 to most the above. No two basses will ever sound alike, even if spec'd as identically as possible. It's just the nature of the beast.

And, per your last point, while I'm sure your experimentation was fun and that you learned a lot, the bad news is that all those pickups might sound quite different interacting with another bass compared to the 75ri you used as a test bed. The inherent 'voicing' of the wood interacts with the voicing of the pickups. Of course, that's pretty subtle, but if you are really listening as close as you do to those 'micro differences' in tone, you can quickly go insane trying to control for the hundreds of interactions that make up an instruments tonal voice.

Luckily, if you do a general spec of, for example, a '70's type J bass tone', you will usually get well within that universe of tone. However, as we've discussed, getting one Fender to sound exactly like another, or any two Alleva's (Coppolo's... OK, Jimmy, I'll start calling them Coppolo's!) to sound the same, or any Alleva to exactly match one particular Fender is a little bit of a 'fools errand'.

And finally, per your comment about a particular Atelier with 60's spacing compared to a particular 78 Fender J, my guess is if you go through enough of each of them, you will find two that do sound quite similar. Sometimes it's best to listen with your ears and not with your eyes. As you are finding out, there are variations (some subtle and some huge) within each line of basses (77 Fenders or 2007 Pedulla's, whatever), and within different pieces of the same species of wood, and even various executions of the same pickups. If you go into this with a mindset of giving one particular design feature of a bass an 'overweighting' regarding its impact on the inherent voice of the instrument (like the subtle difference in pickup position between 60's and 70's era Fenders, or feeling that a certain weight is necessary, etc.), you again will quickly go insane, and IMO often 'miss the forest for the trees'.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Hey Dan,
I'm glad you're diggin the bass, Enjoy! Thank you for refering to the new owners as Coppolo owners . I still can't get used to people refering to the instruments I build as Alleva's. But as I said before in one of these threads I am glad they are refering to them at all.
-Jimmy

Following your lead from months back I thought I was being politcially correct by referring to them as "A-Cs"

 

[Vic]

...or any two Alleva's (Coppolo's... OK, Jimmy, I'll start calling them Coppolo's!) to sound the same, or any Alleva to...

YOU DID IT AGAIN... RIGHT after you said you'd follow suit! YOU IDIOT!

I just call them "AC's". That's safe.

Thing is, I never really thought of it before, but it's true... his name is just Coppolo, so that would sound strange to him, but it's also understandable how some of us ended up calling it by just the first name.

 

[Vic]

Following your lead from months back I thought I was being politcially correct by referring to them as "A-Cs"

FWIW, I think so. It's just those tools that keep calling them Alleva's, that have a problem. Not us. We're ok. It's THEM.




(just razzin' ya Ken...)

 

[KJung]

YOU DID IT AGAIN... RIGHT after you said you'd follow suit! YOU IDIOT!

I just call them "AC's". That's safe.

Thing is, I never really thought of it before, but it's true... his name is just Coppolo, so that would sound strange to him, but it's also understandable how some of us ended up calling it by just the first name.

They will always be Alleva's to me

Now what would be really bad is if many started to think Jimmy's first name was really Alleva.... e.g., that Al Coppolo makes some kick **s basses!

 

[Tom7]

Hey Dan,
I'm glad you're diggin the bass, Enjoy! Thank you for refering to the new owners as Coppolo owners . I still can't get used to people refering to the instruments I build as Alleva's. But as I said before in one of these threads I am glad they are refering to them at all.
-Jimmy

When I was considering buying Jason's bass, he usually referred to them as "Alleva Coppolos," but occasionally called them "Coppolos" for short. Knowing how close you and he are, I've always thought that's how we refer to them.

In the forums I have seen people use "A-Cs" which I've personally disliked because "AC" is an actual F-Bass model (Alain Caron) and I like to avoid confusion where possible.

Hopefully, now that we've all read what your preferences are, everyone here can standardize on "Alleva Coppolos" or "Coppolos" for short.

By the way, whenever Jason talked about this specific bass, he referred to it as the "Heart Breaker." Nevertheless, I was surprised to find it literally had "The Heart Breaker!" etched into the serial number plate when it arrived.

I thought that was VERY cool!

BTW, the more time I spend with this bass, the more in love I become. Thanks for the WONDERFUL job you do.

 

[Vic]

They will always be Alleva's to me

Now what would be really bad is if many started to think Jimmy's first name was really Alleva.... e.g., that Al Coppolo makes some kick **s basses!

GAHHHH, and you just opened the door to it. YOU JERK!

Besides, didn't he get put in prison for tax evasion?

 

[Vic]

BTW, the more time I spend with this bass, the more in love I become. Thanks for the WONDERFUL job you do.

+1

I'm an official addict at this point. It'll still be a while before I "risk" playing another LM, but at some point, I'm gonna' do that, and I'm guessing that'll mean only one thing... yep, you got it...

 

[peterpalmieri]

+1

I'm an official addict at this point. It'll still be a while before I "risk" playing another LM, but at some point, I'm gonna' do that, and I'm guessing that'll mean only one thing... yep, you got it...

I am seriously trying to pull back from ordering an LM5, the temptation is very high though. That Marcus lookin' bass with the natural body, blocks and bindings is just screaming to me. If my wife wasn't 6 months pregnant and if I wasn't in the middle of a pretty hefty kitchen remodel I'd probably have placed an order already.

BTW my DN nitro KBP is such a great feeling bass, it doesn't get allot of gigs but at home it is my number one for practicing. The LG is usually a better fit for most of the diverse gigs that I do.

 

[Vic]

I am seriously trying to pull back from ordering an LM5, the temptation is very high though. That Marcus lookin' bass with the natural body, blocks and bindings is just screaming to me. If my wife wasn't 6 months pregnant and if I wasn't in the middle of a pretty hefty kitchen remodel I'd probably have placed an order already.

I TOTALLY understand... we're currently doing a bunch of stuff around the house as well. *sigh*

BTW my DN nitro KBP is such a great feeling bass, it doesn't get allot of gigs but at home it is my number one for practicing. The LG is usually a better fit for most of the diverse gigs that I do.

I tried hard to get into the P thing... especially after hearing a buddy play one and just really diggin' how it sat in the mix. BUT, I'm just too much of a J guy. I had a really great P (nuthin' like that amazing AC of yours(!!), but really a very nice one), but I just kept missing that sound I needed. Oh well. My LG is definitely becoming a go-to bass, tho. It's gonna' get a lot of air time. That's fo-sho!

 

[KJung]

And... our TB and Alleva (I mean Coppolo) buddy Vic did a very nice review of a top of the line LG in the new Bass Gear Magazine issue. It's well worth checking out, and the on-line version is free (although the $30 is well worth the price for the beautiful hard copy).

Nice job Vic!

 

[narud]

And, per your last point, while I'm sure your experimentation was fun and that you learned a lot, the bad news is that all those pickups might sound quite different interacting with another bass compared to the 75ri you used as a test bed. The inherent 'voicing' of the wood interacts with the voicing of the pickups. Of course, that's pretty subtle, but if you are really listening as close as you do to those 'micro differences' in tone, you can quickly go insane trying to control for the hundreds of interactions that make up an instruments tonal voice.

when evaluating pickups, i can differentiate between the inherent voicing of the pickup and what its doing with the wood. i was putting those same sets of antiquities in my 62 as well. the character of the pickup was the same regardless of bass. amount of low end, top end extension, amount of grind, etc.

Luckily, if you do a general spec of, for example, a '70's type J bass tone', you will usually get well within that universe of tone. However, as we've discussed, getting one Fender to sound exactly like another, or any two Alleva's (Coppolo's... OK, Jimmy, I'll start calling them Coppolo's!) to sound the same, or any Alleva to exactly match one particular Fender is a little bit of a 'fools errand'.

i really believe a ball park match can be made. the 75 ri sounds a lot more like my 78 than any of the ac's ive played. the weight is there and and the electronics aspect is there. not exactly difficult. when i first got that bass with the stock singles, it was closer to what the ac's sound like.

And finally, per your comment about a particular Atelier with 60's spacing compared to a particular 78 Fender J, my guess is if you go through enough of each of them, you will find two that do sound quite similar. Sometimes it's best to listen with your ears and not with your eyes. As you are finding out, there are variations (some subtle and some huge) within each line of basses (77 Fenders or 2007 Pedulla's, whatever), and within different pieces of the same species of wood, and even various executions of the same pickups. If you go into this with a mindset of giving one particular design feature of a bass an 'overweighting' regarding its impact on the inherent voice of the instrument (like the subtle difference in pickup position between 60's and 70's era Fenders, or feeling that a certain weight is necessary, etc.), you again will quickly go insane, and IMO often 'miss the forest for the trees'.

late 70's fenders are pretty consistently heavy, have pickups that are pretty consistently wound compared to pre cbs fenders, and with a new set of strings sound pretty much the same. if you feel like a daryll jones with aeros sounds like a 70's jazz or if someone else thinks an atelier sounds exactly like a 70's jazz, great for you guys. in my experience they dont. to me its just like someone telling you an mtd gets a great marcus miller sound. we've been through that aspect of the discussion and probably wont ever agree

 

[KJung]

when evaluating pickups, i can differentiate between the inherent voicing of the pickup and what its doing with the wood. i was putting those same sets of antiquities in my 62 as well. the character of the pickup was the same regardless of bass. amount of low end, top end extension, amount of grind, etc.


i really believe a ball park match can be made. the 75 ri sounds a lot more like my 78 than any of the ac's ive played. the weight is there and and the electronics aspect is there. not exactly difficult. when i first got that bass with the stock singles, it was closer to what the ac's sound like.



late 70's fenders are pretty consistently heavy, have pickups that are pretty consistently wound compared to pre cbs fenders, and with a new set of strings sound pretty much the same. if you feel like a daryll jones with aeros sounds like a 70's jazz or if someone else thinks an atelier sounds exactly like a 70's jazz, great for you guys. in my experience they dont. to me its just like someone telling you an mtd gets a great marcus miller sound. we've been through that aspect of the discussion and probably wont ever agree

+1 again. I think we agree a lot more than disagree. I was just pointing out how complicated the interactions can be, and even with pickups, it's VERY difficult to isolate the true tone of a pickup when A/Bing in just one bass. If a piece of wood (i.e., a bass) has an inherent tonal hole where one pickup also has a weakness, that can really impact what our ear hears with that particular pickup, which might sound much more balanced attached to a different piece of wood IMO and IME. There are interactions, but I agree, they are minor.

Also, +1 on your 'Marcus tone from an MTD' that I use all the time as an example of being too loose with descriptions... it all depends on how exact you are using the term 'sounds like'. I agree totally! I guess I'm one who is still puzzled by your belief that late 70's J basses are consistent in tone. That is FAR from what I've experienced with the 30 or 40 I've played from that mid to late 70's era. I guess we are all 'differentially picky' about certain aspects of tone.

 

[Vic]

And... our TB and Alleva (I mean Coppolo) buddy Vic did a very nice review of a top of the line LG in the new Bass Gear Magazine issue. It's well worth checking out, and the on-line version is free (although the $30 is well worth the price for the beautiful hard copy).

Nice job Vic!

Thanks, Ken. Coming from you in particular, that means a lot!

 

[sps500]

Need to get my copy!!!

 

[RS]

late 70's fenders are pretty consistently heavy, have pickups that are pretty consistently wound compared to pre cbs fenders, and with a new set of strings sound pretty much the same. if you feel like a daryll jones with aeros sounds like a 70's jazz or if someone else thinks an atelier sounds exactly like a 70's jazz, great for you guys. in my experience they dont. to me its just like someone telling you an mtd gets a great marcus miller sound. we've been through that aspect of the discussion and probably wont ever agree

Most late 70s Fenders are all over the place tonally, IME. A few sound good, most play and/or sound so-so.

 

[NYJimmy]

Following your lead from months back I thought I was being politcially correct by referring to them as "A-Cs"

You can call it anything you want, A-C's is a fine term though... as lonag as the hyphen is there . Tom 7 mentioned that the Alain Coron F bass is also know as an AC model. I definately wouldn't want to cause any confusion .
Thank you for humoring me .
-Jimmy

 

[NYJimmy]

They will always be Alleva's to me

Now what would be really bad is if many started to think Jimmy's first name was really Alleva.... e.g., that Al Coppolo makes some kick **s basses!

Hey Ken,
Like I said you can call them whatever you prefer as long as you call them... Oh, but let's not mention my "God Father", Al Coppolo ... He's been, well let's just say out of town for a little while and is due back real soon. I promosed I'd keep this on the DL and wouldn't want to show any disrespect, Cahpeeeshh?
-Jimmy

 

[CelinderMotoMan]

Here you go...

This is the one I ordered, but returned it in favor of a 4 string. I almost got the same color as this but decided to go with rootbeer instead.