Club Sadowsky!!!

[deepestend]

Is Sadowsky making the SA-200 again? If so, what does it cost and how do you get one?

Yep, email [email protected] for more info and price on the amps.

 

[deepestend]

I always use a Sadowsky outboard DI. When I don't play a Sadowsky J or PJ, I normally use Fender P's, and then always use the DI with preamp engaged. I just turn off the preamp on the DI when using my Sadowsky basses.

I like the tone I get with the Sadowsky pre with the P. I'm not sure I would see much advantage in changing out the pickup however, for my purposes.

One interesting thing that I learned about the outboard pre/DI (which [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] after a while) is that the volume is actually an attenuator.

The "boost" of the preamp comes from the treble and bass controls while the volume knob just attenuates the signal from your instrument.

So, if you've got a passive bass, you likely want the volume all the way on. However, if you've got a hot bass or have to use one that is hot due to an onboard pre, you can turn the volume down so that the signal doesn't distort.

Once you've got the volume/level worked out so that it's not distorting, set the tone and bass knobs all the way off—which is the flat setting—and then adjust up from there to taste.

 

[bassnyc1]

This is a very interesting point about the outboard pre. I was using it with all my passive basses and while I definitely noticed a small volume boost and a much better tone overall, the volume was never enough. I never put the treble or bass past halfway because I never want my sound to be too scooped so it was frustrating. When I got my Valenti bass which has a Sadowsky onboard pre, I finally understood why this preamp is so good. It just seemed like there's a huge difference between onboard and outboard. Much more volume. A slight twist of either treble or bass makes a huge difference while maxing the knobs on the outboard did not do nearly as much. I guess I was expecting very little difference between the two but alas, that's not the case.

 

[Luckydog]

This is a very interesting point about the outboard pre. I was using it with all my passive basses and while I definitely noticed a small volume boost and a much better tone overall, the volume was never enough. I never put the treble or bass past halfway because I never want my sound to be too scooped so it was frustrating. When I got my Valenti bass which has a Sadowsky onboard pre, I finally understood why this preamp is so good. It just seemed like there's a huge difference between onboard and outboard. Much more volume. A slight twist of either treble or bass makes a huge difference while maxing the knobs on the outboard did not do nearly as much. I guess I was expecting very little difference between the two but alas, that's not the case.

This is curious. I believe I may have noticed the same volume difference between my Sadowsky onboards with my Sadowsky J and PJ, and outboard pre with my passive basses. I would like to understand the physics of this, if it can be explained simply. Anyone know?

 

[StayLow]

This is curious. I believe I may have noticed the same volume difference between my Sadowsky onboards with my Sadowsky J and PJ, and outboard pre with my passive basses. I would like to understand the physics of this, if it can be explained simply. Anyone know?

@deepestend explained it two posts above.

The volume is a passive attenuator, same as on your bass.

Basically, start with the volume on the outboard EQ cranked and if there's distortion back off the volume.

The outboard and onboard are, I believe in fact & design, and in my experience, the same.

 

[Luckydog]

I might not have been clear. With volume maxed on the outboard, I am not able to achieve same level of volume with passive bass, than when I use a Sadowsky bass with onboard pre. So something seems to be different in output levels between the onboard and outboard. Not tremendously hugely significant difference, but definitely easily noticeable.

Perhaps its attributable to the inherent pickup output level differences, I dont know.

 

[pickles]

Play the Sadowsky in passive mode vs the passive bass and see which is louder

 

[StayLow]

^ Many crucial variables. Different pickups, strings, setup...pots may have different values, etc. etc.

 

[deepestend]

This is a very interesting point about the outboard pre. I was using it with all my passive basses and while I definitely noticed a small volume boost and a much better tone overall, the volume was never enough. I never put the treble or bass past halfway because I never want my sound to be too scooped so it was frustrating. When I got my Valenti bass which has a Sadowsky onboard pre, I finally understood why this preamp is so good. It just seemed like there's a huge difference between onboard and outboard. Much more volume. A slight twist of either treble or bass makes a huge difference while maxing the knobs on the outboard did not do nearly as much. I guess I was expecting very little difference between the two but alas, that's not the case.

I checked in at the shop and got some answers. All good questions here and I think that they lead to a better understanding of the preamp, which helps everyone to use it as effectively as possible.

The only difference between the onboard and pedal version of the preamp is the attenuator/volume knob.

Basically, think of a bass with an onboard preamp as having two parts: 1) a passive section that includes a passive volume, a passive pan pot (or pickup selector), and a passive tone and 2) the active circuit. So, you have the entire first part of the circuit, which is passive, which feeds into the active part of the circuit.

The onboard preamp has an actual passive volume pot that does make the volume louder--but it's not an active boost, it's just your regular volume pot that you'd have on any bass making it louder.

The preamp pedal does not include the passive volume and tone—those are already on your bass, so no need to duplicate them. What it has is the attenuator/volume knob, which comes before your active treble/bass circuit. The attenuator is the first place that your signal hits and then it goes into the circuit so that you don't end up overloading/distorting your amp if you have a hot signal due to active pickups or a preamp in your bass that you cannot bypass.

Feel free to ask any other questions. Happy to help people to understand how to get the most out of their preamps.

 

[bucephylus]

One interesting thing that I learned about the outboard pre/DI (which [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] after a while) is that the volume is actually an attenuator.

The "boost" of the preamp comes from the treble and bass controls while the volume knob just attenuates the signal from your instrument.

So, if you've got a passive bass, you likely want the volume all the way on. However, if you've got a hot bass or have to use one that is hot due to an onboard pre, you can turn the volume down so that the signal doesn't distort.

Once you've got the volume/level worked out so that it's not distorting, set the tone and bass knobs all the way off—which is the flat setting—and then adjust up from there to taste.

That is fascinating. Many thanks. I was actually doing that, but wondering if there was something wrong with my unit.

 

[StayLow]

I checked in at the shop and got some answers. All good questions here and I think that they lead to a better understanding of the preamp, which helps everyone to use it as effectively as possible.

The only difference between the onboard and pedal version of the preamp is the attenuator/volume knob.

Basically, think of a bass with an onboard preamp as having two parts: 1) a passive section that includes a passive volume, a passive pan pot (or pickup selector), and a passive tone and 2) the active circuit. So, you have the entire first part of the circuit, which is passive, which feeds into the active part of the circuit.

The onboard preamp has an actual passive volume pot that does make the volume louder--but it's not an active boost, it's just your regular volume pot that you'd have on any bass making it louder.

The preamp pedal does not include the passive volume and tone—those are already on your bass, so no need to duplicate them. What it has is the attenuator/volume knob, which comes before your active treble/bass circuit. The attenuator is the first place that your signal hits and then it goes into the circuit so that you don't end up overloading/distorting your amp if you have a hot signal due to active pickups or a preamp in your bass that you cannot bypass.

Feel free to ask any other questions. Happy to help people to understand how to get the most out of their preamps.

How does a *passive* volume pot make anything louder?

 

[deepestend]

How does a *passive* volume pot make anything louder?

A passive volume pot doesn't "boost" the signal, it just regulates how much signal is coming out of your pickups. I was just trying to distinguish between the volume on your onboard preamp vs the volume/attenuator on the pedal/di.

When you raise the level of the volume on your onboard, the level increases because you are letting more pickup signal through.

On the pedal, the volume takes your overall signal from the bass and acts as a gatekeeper so that you can adjust how much comes through. It's not an actual volume.

Does that make sense?

 

[bucephylus]

I might not have been clear. With volume maxed on the outboard, I am not able to achieve same level of volume with passive bass, than when I use a Sadowsky bass with onboard pre. So something seems to be different in output levels between the onboard and outboard. Not tremendously hugely significant difference, but definitely easily noticeable.

Perhaps its attributable to the inherent pickup output level differences, I dont know.

J's also have crazy output sensitivity to pickup height, which is not easily adjusted. But, maybe, you already know that.

 

[deepestend]

J's also have crazy output sensitivity to pickup height, which is not easily adjusted. But, maybe, you already know that.

You'd have to do a scientific A/B test to see what's going on here. Could be a difference in the actual basses. If you were using two basses that were exactly the same in materials and setup but gave one an onboard and one a pedal pre, you'd have the same result.

 

[StayLow]

A passive volume pot doesn't "boost" the signal, it just regulates how much signal is coming out of your pickups. I was just trying to distinguish between the volume on your onboard preamp vs the volume/attenuator on the pedal/di.

When you raise the level of the volume on your onboard, the level increases because you are letting more pickup signal through.

Correct, which is why your posts may be causing, or seem to be causing, confusion.

"passive volume pot that does make the volume louder"

Passive attenuates.

Onboard with the volume full up you have 100% of your bass' volume going into the EQ section, and the signal then exits the bass.

Outboard with volume full up you have 100% of your bass' output going into the EQ section, and the signal then exits the outboard.

In both cases volume can only be boosted via the *active* EQ.

 

[bucephylus]

You'd have to do a scientific A/B test to see what's going on here. Could be a difference in the actual basses. If you were using two basses that were exactly the same in materials and setup but gave one an onboard and one a pedal pre, you'd have the same result.

Agreed. I just know from prior experience that when I have had your preamp in other basses (dare I say Fender?), that the performance differences were strongly related to setup, which your shop does to perfection. The other guys, not so much.

 

[deepestend]

Correct, which is why your posts may be causing, or seem to be causing, confusion.

"passive volume pot that does make the volume louder"

Onboard with the volume full up you have 100% of your bass' volume going into the active EQ.

Outboard with volume full up you have 100% of your bass' output going into the active EQ.

Good clarification.

 

[Luckydog]

Typically, if I'm using the outboard, The bass I am using is a 1966 P-Bass with original pickup, or a 79 P-Bass with Duncan SPB-1 pup. The Sadowsky basses are a 91 Jazz or a Metro PJ. With the Fender, I typically dime the volume on the bass, and the volume on the outboard is also dimed. With that setup, my volume is less than with either of the Sadowsky basses. Similar strings, amp and cabs. Fresh batteries in the outboard, as well as the Sadowsky basses.

 

[StayLow]

Thank you.

I made a couple edits to, I think, make my post even more clear.

 

[StayLow]

Typically, if I'm using the outboard, The bass I am using is a 1966 P-Bass with original pickup, or a 79 P-Bass with Duncan SPB-1 pup. The Sadowsky basses are a 91 Jazz or a Metro PJ. With the Fender, I typically dime the volume on the bass, and the volume on the outboard is also dimed. With that setup, my volume is less than with either of the Sadowsky basses. Similar strings, amp and cabs. Fresh batteries in the outboard, as well as the Sadowsky basses.

A radically different pickup, pickup type, pickup placement, and likely different setup (fractions of an inch between string and pickup can make big differences) will yield different results.