Combo that can keep up with MB D-800/Berg REF210?

[tradernick]

I think they're not seeing it because the value you've written about above is from your perspective as an end user.
If there was enough value in it from their perspective as manufacturers, I think they'd be all over it.
From my perspective as an end-user, I have no need for a combo.
My TT-800 weighs just a smidge over 7 pounds and the cabs are 43 and 38. So around 88 pounds total, but obviously modular.
The last combo I gigged with weighed 80 pounds (SWR Redhead - original).
I think that coming up with combos that enough people are going to prefer over today's lightweight amps and cabs is a big enough ask under any circumstances, let alone keeping them at any kind of competitive price point.

My comment re: their perceived value was in response to @gtirard's suggestion that they don't see value in it because the market is too small. In truth I have no idea why they don't make more combos but lack of demand is a decent guess. I suspect that Berg/MB aren't interested in 'price point' offerings to cater to those on smaller budgets or students. Still it's interesting to speculate about why they might not see value in it from their perspective.

To be clear, for me personally the value in a combo from either company would be - meet or exceed the performance I can get out of my D-800/REF210 rig in a smaller package that's lighter, price isn't really a concern.

But I'm sure your last comment re: the big ask in competing with modular setups is probably right.

I well remember the SWR Redhead, I used to see them on gigs where backline was provided. Didn't they all come on wheels? 88 pounds? Yep, those days are gone for me.

 

[tradernick]

Worth noting GR has a natural fiber option of the combo as well, NF 210V 800. Not sure if issues are isolated to the carbon fiber units, but they offer both.

Just in case anyone is wondering or finds this thread. The NF 201V 800 does not appear when you search 'combos' at the GR site but it is there, scroll all the way down the page for the AT210 V page and you'll see it. GR support responded quickly. Now I'll as them about the difference between carbon fiber and 'natural fiber'.

 

[agedhorse]

Appreciate you putting that together, it's helpful. Re: keeping up, it's weird, I am always getting told to turn up when gigging. I mean, I don't push the D-800/REF210 rig to its limits very often. The calculated SPL numbers for the GR cabs is instructive. I'm definitely going up to their AD here in Mississauga to play through them. I'll try to keep my mind open about carbon fiber.

Try tilting the cabinet back a little or raising it up to help you hear the mids better, that might help.

If your 210 is 8 ohms, there’s no problem turning it up. The master limit LED can flash about 25% of the time without worry, this just means the output tube emulation circuitry is working.

If the cabinet is 4 ohms, I would be careful of overpowering the cabinet when the limit light flashes, because you are approaching 800 watts rms and no 210 is able to handle this amount of power safely. Don’t want to see you unintentionally damage it.

 

[agedhorse]

My comment re: their perceived value was in response to @gtirard's suggestion that they don't see value in it because the market is too small. In truth I have no idea why they don't make more combos but lack of demand is a decent guess. I suspect that Berg/MB aren't interested in 'price point' offerings to cater to those on smaller budgets or students. Still it's interesting to speculate about why they might not see value in it from their perspective.

To be clear, for me personally the value in a combo from either company would be - meet or exceed the performance I can get out of my D-800/REF210 rig in a smaller package that's lighter, price isn't really a concern.

But I'm sure your last comment re: the big ask in competing with modular setups is probably right.

I well remember the SWR Redhead, I used to see them on gigs where backline was provided. Didn't they all come on wheels? 88 pounds? Yep, those days are gone for me.

There have been a few discussions here on TB regarding high powered, high cost combos. IME, and based on these discussions, the market for $2k+ combos is very small.

 

[gtirard]

Just in case anyone is wondering or finds this thread. The NF 201V 800 does not appear when you search 'combos' at the GR site but it is there, scroll all the way down the page for the AT210 V page and you'll see it. GR support responded quickly. Now I'll as them about the difference between carbon fiber and 'natural fiber'.

I've had a NF210V cab. Sound excatly the same as the carbon fiber version (that's what they told me)

But it doesn't look at all like the photos (or 3D imagery) they show on the website. I told them. The admitted that the photos were misleading, they told me they would fix it, they didn't. It was more than 2 year ago.

On the left: my cab - On the right: the product shot on their website.

On their website, the cab looks straw yellow, but in reality it's brown—it's completely different.

If you don't believe my photos, search Google Image for Natural Fiber cabs: you will instantly recognize the 3D images that are provided by GR Bass, and photos of real products.

GR Bass also exagerate their specifications quite a bit IMHO.

Appart from that, it sounds great: very detailed and articulate, deep and clear sounding.

I will never buy again a carbon fiber or natural fiber cab for the reasons I already explained in my first comment, but I would buy one of their wood combos easily. Even the wooden cabs and combos from GR Bass are much lighter than most competitors, without the structural fragility of carbon fiber.

 

[bherman]

I have a pair of RevSound RS112 cabinets, they weigh 21 lbs each and sound massive. I typically only use one (like 99% of the time) , its plenty for most all gigs inside , outside with FOH support. I power it with a Mesa 800D (the new tube hybrid) but have also done so with a D800. My solution for easy load in is: speaker cab in one hand, bass in a gig band in the other, and a tomtoc backpack that holds the amp head and all cables, etc on my back. I looked at combos when trying to lessen the load and decided not to go that route - this gives me more flexibility and if I ever need more volume, I can bring the second cab - but when I do, my drummer always tells me to turn down!

P.S. I have one of the GR carbon fiber cabs, like others I have had trouble with vibration. I would look elsewhere in the future, its too hard dealing with a company that is EU-based when service is needed

 

[Nebadon2000]

There have been a few discussions here on TB regarding high powered, high cost combos. IME, and based on these discussions, the market for $2k+ combos is very small.

GK has 6 Combo's from $1700 to $2400 not sure how they sale; same with GR Bass some up near 2K

BUT If Mesa B-800D in 1x15 and/or 2x12 Combo in 2K range well..... At least would get rid of needing a Bar Mat

 

[agedhorse]

GK has 6 Combo's from $1700 to $2400 not sure how they sale; same with GR Bass some up near 2K

BUT If Mesa B-800D in 1x15 and/or 2x12 Combo in 2K range well..... At least would get rid of needing a Bar Mat

I think it would end up being around $2.5k which is rarified territory for sure.

 

[SJan3]

I share your desire for a giggable combo. The candidates to consider are MarkBass, GK, Darkglass, Trickfish, EICH, GR.
All offer hi powered combos in various speaker configurations. I just put a deposit on a MarkBass CMD121p as companies like Aguilar and Mesa won't step up to the plate.

 

[mikeynets]

I share your desire for a giggable combo. The candidates to consider are MarkBass, GK, Darkglass, Trickfish, EICH, GR.
All offer hi powered combos in various speaker configurations. I just put a deposit on a MarkBass CMD121p as companies like Aguilar and Mesa won't step up to the plate.

Not trying to being snarky here, but I’m trying to understand why a combo is preferable to separate head and cab — especially if there’s no price break?

I get that load in could be easier, but with the size of modern powerful heads that can sometimes fit in a gig bag pocket or add on like the mono tick, load in could actually be harder with a combo.

I do really like what quilter and gentler do with their head/cab attachment options.

 

[SJan3]

Not trying to being snarky here, but I’m trying to understand why a combo is preferable to separate head and cab — especially if there’s no price break?

I get that load in could be easier, but with the size of modern powerful heads that can sometimes fit in a gig bag pocket or add on like the mono tick, load in could actually be harder with a combo.

I do really like what quilter and gentler do with their head/cab attachment options.

Good call on Quilter and Genzler. Please don't consider my list exhaustive. To answer your question, there is Indeed a $$$ savings in the case of MarkBass, for example.
And if you're 70 like me, a light weight grab n go option is very attractive. The light weight of class D amp allows for a miniscule addition of weight.
This is all subject to personal preference and I own separates as well. But in a pinch or for certain situations a combo is most convenient, IMHO.

 

[Lo_Basserson]

Not trying to being snarky here, but I’m trying to understand why a combo is preferable to separate head and cab — especially if there’s no price break?

I have a GK legacy 115 combo and it was about $400 less than the separate head and cab. It’s essentially a Neo IV 115 cab with an 800 watt legacy amp built into the back. (400 normally through the combo plus an extension.) Only real difference is that the combo doesn’t have a tuner out plug.

If I had it to do over again I would seriously consider the separate head and cab. Just so I could take a 112 to smaller gigs. If you really want to tap the full 800 watts, the 212 combo uses all 800 watts without an extension, but still has a Speakon out if you want to add a cab to push more air..

 

[mikeynets]

I have a GK legacy 115 combo and it was about $400 less than the separate head and cab. It’s essentially a Neo IV 115 cab with an 800 watt legacy amp built into the back. (400 normally through the combo plus an extension.) Only real difference is that the combo doesn’t have a tuner out plug.

If I had it to do over again I would seriously consider the separate head and cab. Just so I could take a 112 to smaller gigs. If you really want to tap the full 800 watts, the 212 combo uses all 800 watts without an extension, but still has a Speakon out if you want to add a cab to push more air..

Good points on the $ difference @Lo_Basserson and @Sanj — I didn't think it was that significant!

With pretty much anything gear related, there are always trade offs. While I'm pretty well set in the separates camp, the combos that have matching extension cabs are probably the most appealing to me if I were to go the combo route.

 

[Murv M]

I have a Fender Rumble 800 combo that has two 10" Neo speakers. It puts out about half the 800 watts with the enclosed speakers and the full 800 watts with an ext cabinet. It really pumps a lot of volume with just the internal speakers. It also has a pre-post direct out XLR for FOH. It's small to carry and only weighs 29 lbs. I downsized from a combo and it does all I need. Price new around $890.

 

[InkCow]

Genzler Magellan 350 combo is cheaper than the head/cab separately as well. Back ordered, though, so an academic distinction.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Not trying to being snarky here, but I’m trying to understand why a combo is preferable to separate head and cab — especially if there’s no price break?

I get that load in could be easier, but with the size of modern powerful heads that can sometimes fit in a gig bag pocket or add on like the mono tick, load in could actually be harder with a combo.

I do really like what quilter and gentler do with their head/cab attachment options.

I can't speak for others, but for me, just having a quicker setup and tear down. Easier to load in the car. Easier to stack (in the car - if it's square or rectangular). I am also carrying the PA and all the cables, so anything that simplifies the setup for me is an added bonus and I am always looking for ways to make it quicker, easier and lighter.

I have an Genzler MG-800 and Fearless F112 and it sounds great, but a Traynor SB112 gets more gig time because of its size and weight and is sufficient for my volume requirements in the venues I play most often.

 

[ryco]

Love my GK Fusion 800 2x10 combo. Weighs 40 pounds.
Plenty LOUD. Lots of tones available with voicing options for rotary 4 band EQ.
Little tube pre-amp which allows a nice gritty overdrive channel, or a more clean channel option.

I also have an older 8Ω Neo 410MBE cab that is about 40 pounds if I ever need more volume, but haven't needed to use an ext cab yet -- not even outside gigs. Has speaker cab switch options for 8Ω, 4Ω, and 8+4Ω = pretty dang versatle.

 

[dune]

I've had a NF210V cab. Sound excatly the same as the carbon fiber version (that's what they told me)

But it doesn't look at all like the photos (or 3D imagery) they show on the website. I told them. The admitted that the photos were misleading, they told me they would fix it, they didn't. It was more than 2 year ago.

On the left: my cab - On the right: the product shot on their website.

On their website, the cab looks straw yellow, but in reality it's brown—it's completely different.

View attachment 7389632
If you don't believe my photos, search Google Image for Natural Fiber cabs: you will instantly recognize the 3D images that are provided by GR Bass, and photos of real products.

GR Bass also exagerate their specifications quite a bit IMHO.

Appart from that, it sounds great: very detailed and articulate, deep and clear sounding.

I will never buy again a carbon fiber or natural fiber cab for the reasons I already explained in my first comment, but I would buy one of their wood combos easily. Even the wooden cabs and combos from GR Bass are much lighter than most competitors, without the structural fragility of carbon fiber.

Never cool for them to depict something that different of course, but for what's it's worth, I vastly prefer the one on the left.

 

[pyrat56host]

I have a Fender Rumble 800 combo that has two 10" Neo speakers. It puts out about half the 800 watts with the enclosed speakers and the full 800 watts with an ext cabinet. It really pumps a lot of volume with just the internal speakers. It also has a pre-post direct out XLR for FOH. It's small to carry and only weighs 29 lbs. I downsized from a combo and it does all I need. Price new around $890.

Same here...I can't say enough great things about the Rumbles. I was skeptical because of all the yakety-yak here on Tb but every time I heard one live it sounded great! I took a chance w/ a largeish gift card and was happy to discover that my ears weren't as bad as 50 years of gigging should have made them. The Rumble has all the features I need for any gig and by adding the ext cab it has plenty of volume (rehearsal w/ my loudest group was easily handled w/ Gain @ 11 o'clock and Master @ 10/11). All the knobs are functional so there are loads of tonal options and the neo speakers in the combo are really nice, the ceramic in the ext cab add a nice balance and the horns are decent (if needed) as well. As a side note...the simplicity combined w/ the ease of movement and smallish footprint have brought an element of JOY back to playing...I plug in and there's my sound, wonderful!

 

[BAG]

The GK MB212ii is a monstrous beast of an amp that just looks like an uncool unassuming nothing.
But it's a monstrous beast I tell you, a MONSTROUS BEAST.

I agree... you get the full 500w without the need for an extension cab to unleash all the amps power and it's only 41lbs..... and sounds great!