Combo that can keep up with MB D-800/Berg REF210?

[pepj]

Not sure what a combo would being.
I'd get an Eich T900 head and a Vanderkley 210.
The footprint would be as good and small as any combo I can think off if you were running at 4ohms, and at around 600w, you'd need 2 chassis anyway.
The VD 210MNT is very very compact...and capable sound and volume wise

 

[TheDuff]

I just got a Markbass CMD 102P V combo. Very compact, versatile and powerful with nooks and crannies to store things away for transportation. Perfect as a stage monitor with XLR out to FOH. I had one before and the current model is a few pounds lighter. It's probably about 6-8 pounds heavier than the custom GR Bass Aerotech 212 Slim combos which are very powerful and are slightly warmer than the 212 Slim cabinet by itself.

View attachment 7389380

Nice little amp.

 

[tradernick]

Not trying to being snarky here, but I’m trying to understand why a combo is preferable to separate head and cab — especially if there’s no price break?

Not at all, it's a fair question. I need a certain bare minimum of stuff on a gig, like spare cables, my little repair kit, and a few other things. I can fill the pockets of my gig bag with all that but there won't be room for a small head. I'd love to have just two pieces - gig bag and amp.

 

[tradernick]

Same here...I can't say enough great things about the Rumbles. I was skeptical because of all the yakety-yak here on Tb

I'm sure I have some sort of bad attitude about Rumbles because I see them as somehow not for pros. Which is obviously not logical. I've heard the smaller ones and they sound quite nice. I'll have to give them a look.

 

[tradernick]

I power it with a Mesa 800D (the new tube hybrid)

Definitely want to hear this little hybrid! I wasn't aware they were making it. Pricing seems quite reasonable as well.

 

[tradernick]

Genzler Magellan 350 combo is cheaper than the head/cab separately as well. Back ordered, though, so an academic distinction.

Curious about the Magellan 350 Combo but apparently there's no dealer in Toronto, which seems odd.

 

[TheDuff]

Not at all, it's a fair question. I need a certain bare minimum of stuff on a gig, like spare cables, my little repair kit, and a few other things. I can fill the pockets of my gig bag with all that but there won't be room for a small head. I'd love to have just two pieces - gig bag and amp.

The size consideration in this situation would be both smaller and lighter, plus still be a 2 easily carryable pieces at the same time.

Lighter and smaller than the combo option it might easily and inexpensively be to:

Get a Warwick Gnome mini bass head and a neomydium 12” or even 15” neomydium cabinet.

The Warwck Gnome bass head is about 190mm wide, 45mm tall including feet, and 120mm deep. 10 millimeters (mm) equals 3/8 of an inch approximately. 10 mm = 3/8” +/-. As you can see this great 200 watt mini bass head is cool and useful. It also sounds great for a nice foundation sound.

The Gnome head is smaller than most multieffects pedals and will fit in the gig bag.

The single neo speaker csbinet in the other hand might be a lot lighter than the combo you have in mind.

I think you could benefit from small form factor technology in this regard. Small, light, and good.

 

[BAG]

Not trying to being snarky here, but I’m trying to understand why a combo is preferable to separate head and cab — especially if there’s no price break?

Here in NZ when I bought my GK MB212 around 5 years ago it cost $1999.
At the same time the equivalent GK head was $1799 and a 2x10 GK cab cost around $1400. That's a huge saving buying the combo.

 

[BAG]

And a quick look at Sweetwater shows that at the current prices of GK gear in the US for a separate head and cab you'll pay around 150-180% more than an equivalent combo.

 

[Nebadon2000]

Not at all, it's a fair question. I need a certain bare minimum of stuff on a gig, like spare cables, my little repair kit, and a few other things. I can fill the pockets of my gig bag with all that but there won't be room for a small head. I'd love to have just two pieces - gig bag and amp.

Also usually need to add bar mat or similar to accessories to keep lightweight modern Heads from moving on Cab

 

[TheDuff]

I like the idea of the gig bag and a single good neo 10” cabinet that has a usable and durable handle and steel grill mesh for protection during movements.

Weight and mobility, ergonomics, would be my primary focus. The volume demand in this situation should be able to handle a 10” bass speaker. But a mini lightweight rig might not be powerful enough.

For special events bigger stuff can be substituted, if the small rig proves to be workable for ordinary needs.

Carrying around heavy or bulky gear would turn me off.

My 50 watt Ampeg rocket bass combo sounds great and is so light it feels like a basketball. It wants to literally float away if you know what I mean… But I don’t think it’s powerful enough or appropriate for stage use in even a minimally demanding room for performance.

 

[Nebadon2000]

And a quick look at Sweetwater shows that at the current prices of GK gear in the US for a separate head and cab you'll pay around 150-180% more than an equivalent combo.

GK separate Legacy 800 watt head and Neo 112 cost $1800 the combo version of exact amp cab cost $1500

 

[mikeynets]

It really comes down to what SPL you need for a given event.

I would say in most cases, most people over estimate the amount needed to be heard appropriately.

I used this Invalid Link Removed and plugged in some specs from my very portable, but surprisingly loud and nice sounding rig — Quilter Interbass (33W @ 8ohm) into a Barefaced One10 — and then a few other wattage scenarios. The Barefaced One10 is not the most efficient box, so finding something with higher sensitivity would yield a little higher SPL while still using a small, light, less powerful head. See the screen grabs below.

Per my understanding, every +3db increase is perceived as a doubling in volume.

Here's another interesting data point from another website:

I haven't seen Soulfly in something like 20 years, but they are definitely a heavy band that plays at volumes you'd expect for the genre. I'm surprised by the info shared here — I thought they'd be in the mid to high 120s. Who knows how accurate this persons meter was, but the point is, this is a band that always has PA support and if this reading is even remotely accurate, I'd say it's safe to assume your requirements of a small and light rig probably don't limit you too much if you're trying to carry smallish rooms. Once you need more than ~110 SPL, you're probably already into PA support.



The rig I described above is not what I usually take to the shows I play, rather it's what I typically use to practice at home with. But I shared the specs as it's so small and light and sounds great and could be 100% serviceable for some gigs. All depends on what YOU need.

Good luck.

 

[Wasnex]

Per my understanding, every +3db increase is perceived as a doubling in volume.

Doubling the usable power gives you +3dB. AFAIK doubling the perceived volume is +10dB.

FYI You get +10dB from raising the power by a factor of 10. I.E. raising the power from:

• 1W to 10W = +10dB
• 10W to 100W = +10dB
• 100W to 1000W = +10dB
• 1000W to 10000 = +10dB

I thought they'd be in the mid to high 120s.

AFAIK SPL measurements usually consider more of a long term value. AFAIK bass typically has something like a 12dB crest factor. Crest factor is the ratio between the peak value and the long term value. So if the measured SPL is 116dB, your max SPL is 125dB and your peak SPL is a 128dB.

If your running a cab with a 100db 1W/1m Sensitivity rating, you need about 40W RMS for 116dB. This is the long term power. You need about 316W RMS to cover the transients at 125dB. The instantaneous power is about 632W peak for 128dB peak. For a sine wave, 316W RMS = 632W peak. Different ways of measuring the same value.

Amps are usually rated using RMS. 400W RMS = 800W peak.

 

[mikeynets]

Doubling the usable power gives you +3dB. AFAIK doubling the perceived volume is +10dB.

FYI You get +10dB from raising the power by a factor of 10. I.E. raising the power from:

• 1W to 10W = +10dB
• 10W to 100W = +10dB
• 100W to 1000W = +10dB
• 1000W to 10000 = +10dB

AFAIK SPL measurements usually consider more of a long term value. AFAIK bass typically has something like a 12dB crest factor. Crest factor is the ratio between the peak value and the long term value. So if the measured SPL is 116dB, your max SPL is 125dB and your peak SPL is a 128dB.

If your running a cab with a 100db 1W/1m Sensitivity rating, you need about 40W RMS for 116dB. This is the long term power. You need about 316W RMS to cover the transients at 125dB. The instantaneous power is about 632W peak for 128dB peak. For a sine wave, 316W RMS = 632W peak. Different ways of measuring the same value.

Amps are usually rated using RMS. 400W RMS = 800W peak.

Thank you @Wasnex for chiming in. I had a feeling I got something wrong. You’re way more knowledgeable on this than I am. Understatement of the year right there ; )

 

[Wasnex]

View attachment 7394758

Let's explore what this means.

An important question: Where was the reading taken.

There are different ways that sound decays. The direct sound drops of by 6dB for each doubling of distance. On the other hand, sound that bounces around the room can build up and form a diffuse field which has uniform SPL everywhere. The reading picked up by the meter will include both direct sound and indirect sound. I really don't know how to deal with indirect sound. But ideally the direct sound should be louder than the indirect sound, otherwise what you hear will be a diffuse, muddy mess.

For speaker specs, we normally consider the SPL measured at 1 meter. If the sound travels 3 meters before it reaches the first audience, the direct sounds drops off by 20Log(3/1) = ~9.5dB So if the SPL is 109.8 at 3m from the rig, then the SPL at 1m from the rig is ~119.3dB.

If you want 109.8 at 5 meters the required SPL at 1 meter is ~123.8dB

Here's the math:

• 20Log(5/1) = ~14dB. This is how much the SPL drops off traveling from 1 to 5 meters.
• ~14 + 109.8 = ~123.8dB This is the calculated SPL required a 1m to read 109.8dB at 5 meters.

Keep in mind 123.8dB is a long term value. If we use the assumed 12dB crest factor, the Max SPL at 1m is ~132.8dB and the peak SPL is ~135.8dB. Good chance you won't be relying on a 110 combo to produce these levels.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

You could just consider looking for a lighter and more compact cab to pair with the D-800. Cab tech has improved a lot in terms of what you can get in a smaller and lighter footprint these days, IMO, particularly when you start including neo speakers.

My Markbass neo 4x10s are under 50 lbs each for a 4x10, and two of them stacked together have smaller dimensions than my old Carvin stack, which was just a 2x10 and 1x15. They sound huge as well, together or separately.

Was going to say the exact same thing. I have one of the new Markbass 4x10’s that I pair with my Mesa D800 and it sounds phenomenal. The cab is 35.5lbs and honestly feels like nothing when you pick it up.

 

[agedhorse]

Beware of very misleading info when assuming that you understand the results.

1. The sensitivity at 1 watt does not hold true linearly as power is added. At rated mechanical power, the reference value must be reduced by between 3 and 6dB to account for thermal and electrodynamic power compression.

2. Sensitivity values are generally provided as a half-space specification, so you need to know how the calculator accounts for the reference value versus the calculated value. For example, in post #53 the initial sensitivity is 2/2- space, the calculated sensitivity is 1/4-space and of they assumed the sensitivity is full space, the calculation maybe as much as 12dB overstated.

3. Some of these calculators include a room or cavity gain factor which generally doesn’t apply in many cases. This too will result in an error, maybe a big one.

 

[Balog]

As long as you’re ok with it not being a perfect rectangle you can always just mechanically fasten the amp to the cab.