Double Bass Convince me not to try out DB

[oomo]

More and more recently I've been getting drawn to the sound of double bass, especially for jazz.

Part of me wants to take the plunge, but a big part of me thinks it's a terrible idea:

1. I live in a small place in a big city - can imagine problems with noise and neighbours (I often play BG with headphones at home). Plus transporting a double bass on public transport doesn't look like fun (not to mentioning finding space for it at home).

2. I'm in my mid 40s, this seems pretty late to pick up an instrument that (from what I've read) takes a significant chunk of time to get competent with.

3. I'm a lefty. While it seems there are some lefty DBs out there, the overwhelming majority of things I've read have mostly suggested to suck it up and learn righty. I play guitar, bass and mandolin lefty, I'm not sure I could cope with rewiring my brain completely for just one stringed instrument.

4. It'd take time away from my BG playing. I'd consider myself intermediate there, and definitely making steady improvement in a lot of areas, I expect that would suffer as I'd be back to square one with DB (except for music theory knowledge).

5. I've suffered with forearm/tendon pains before, and always have to work to keep that under control (e.g. careful warmup, stretching, frequent breaks, etc.).

6. Weirdly (at least it seems that way to me), most the advanced/professional bassists that I know in person (as opposed to online) have gone the other way - i.e. started out on DB at school/music degree level, then ended up playing more BG (for gigs, session work, teaching, etc.). Maybe they're just going where the money/work is, but part of me wonders why they don't miss it more.

I guess on paper it looks like a big investment of time/money/inconvenience, just to satisfy an itch.

So anyone want to convince me it is/isn't a terrible route to go down, given all of the above? Anyone started in similar circumstances and stuck with it or abandoned it? Though maybe the latter won't be reading this forum

 

[bherman]

The two points that make me pause are 3. lefty- really hard to find decent lefty DB, I was going to suggest renting one for a few months to see how it works out, but likely to be close to impossible to find a rental lefty; and 5. tendon/forearm pains - I play both electric and DB and DB is much harder on your body. If you do give it a try, get some lessons to make sure your playing it properly.

 

[Lee Moses]

All your own points against are valid (not sure about #6--I've seen that one go both ways). So if those don't talk you out of it, maybe you should give it a try. But it's not an instrument that you can just dip your toes in the water with--you really need to commit to it for a good while.

 

[Anne Millington]

You might try renting one, and see if you can learn righty-mode. If you still like it after a couple of months, you can probably overcome all the other issues, with determination.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Well, the only reason to play DB is because that's the sound you HAVE to hear whenever you play music. Pretty much any reason based on a whim is going to make it Very Easy to give up. As you say, transportation is an issue, physical approach is an issue, building endurance/callouses/sound/etc. are issues. At some point, if you're doing this because you think you ought to or to get more gigs or because you think it looks cool or because you think you'll be taken more seriously, it's EASY to say shag this and walk away.

Having said that, pretty much every bassist in NYC (and I imagine in pretty much any major metropolitan area with a serious public transportation system) takes public transport. You get a couple of us on a subway car and it's like there's a convention in town. I lived in two different apartment buildings while I lived there, if you have cranky neighbors there are things you can do to address sound transmission. But there's a (relatively) strong union there and NYC legislation does support the rights of musicians to practice between (if I am remembering correctly) 10AM and 9PM. Additionally there are any number of rehearsal rooms available for hourly rental around the city and boroughs. I was lucky with my neighbors, they'd actually stop me in the elevator to ask me if anything was wrong if I hadn't been practicing. The only thing about taking up the instrument in your mid 40s is that you'll never be a 39 year old prodigy. Again, it's my first point - if it's something you HAVE TO DO, age isn't an issue. If it's for some other reason, at some point you'll bail.

All the folks that I've know personally or have read things they'd said about their practice routines tend to shed serially, not simultaneously. So if they have a bunch of BG gigs coming up, they shed BG, if DB, they shed DB. That being said, progress is contingent on time spent. So, especially with a new instrument, more time spent with DB will yield a quicker familiarity. As far as repercussions from bad physical approach, it's not so much about warmup and stretching etc. as it is developing a way to get a good projecting sound out of the instrument with a relaxed tension free approach. I can't emphasize how much a GOOD teacher can assist in this.

My experience is actually the opposite, the majority of double bassists I know (including myself) started on bass guitar ( a few on guitar) or another instrument (have you heard Mike Karn play tenor? He is a bad, bad man!) I doubled for a long time, but eventually came to hear double bass as what I wanted to sound like all the time in the music I was playing. I sold the last bass guitar I owned over 2 decades ago.

Ultimately YOU are the only one who can decide if this is necessity or passing fancy....

 

[Anne Millington]

I definitely concur with those advising you get a good human teacher to get you started.

 

[overit]

More and more recently I've been getting drawn to the sound of double bass, especially for jazz.

Part of me wants to take the plunge, but a big part of me thinks it's a terrible idea:

1. I live in a small place in a big city - can imagine problems with noise and neighbours (I often play BG with headphones at home). Plus transporting a double bass on public transport doesn't look like fun (not to mentioning finding space for it at home).

Pizzicato with a mute can be pretty low volume

2. I'm in my mid 40s, this seems pretty late to pick up an instrument that (from what I've read) takes a significant chunk of time to get competent with.

I traded for a poor upright in my mid 30s - the setup made me not want to play it. At 44, I moved to a new city and sold that upright, traded for another upright and was able to work on it myself (I'm not a luthier but am handy) and it turned out to be a very easy on the hands player (strung with lighter gut strings $$ - buy once, cry once). If you have the time and will, mid 40s isn't late. I also enjoy bowing which is something I never thought I'd get into.

3. I'm a lefty. While it seems there are some lefty DBs out there, the overwhelming majority of things I've read have mostly suggested to suck it up and learn righty. I play guitar, bass and mandolin lefty, I'm not sure I could cope with rewiring my brain completely for just one stringed instrument.

that's a tough one but the instrument is so different it might not be as hard a transition as you think

4. It'd take time away from my BG playing. I'd consider myself intermediate there, and definitely making steady improvement in a lot of areas, I expect that would suffer as I'd be back to square one with DB (except for music theory knowledge).

depends how much you can balance both and your goals

5. I've suffered with forearm/tendon pains before, and always have to work to keep that under control (e.g. careful warmup, stretching, frequent breaks, etc.).

i was self taught for 3-4 months before taking a lesson. I didn't have any pain but wasn't sure whether I was doing things right. I took approximately 3 months of lessons pre-Covid and my technique was decent but I got a ton of tips and exercises that last a lifetime. Going righty might also help your issues.

6. Weirdly (at least it seems that way to me), most the advanced/professional bassists that I know in person (as opposed to online) have gone the other way - i.e. started out on DB at school/music degree level, then ended up playing more BG (for gigs, session work, teaching, etc.). Maybe they're just going where the money/work is, but part of me wonders why they don't miss it more.

There have been times where I don't touch the DB for a week or so but I have it standing in the corner of my office and remind myself to stay conditioned so I'll play it for at least 10 minutes a couple time a week. Everytime I do that I remind myself why I fell in love with it - that sound - jazz w/ guts... Maybe those guys have played it so long they are burnt out or perhaps it was just for money - noone knows, you'll only know what it does for you.

I guess on paper it looks like a big investment of time/money/inconvenience, just to satisfy an itch.

[/b]If it's a recent itch, probably not a good idea financially. If it's something you always felt, than I'd say yeah.[/b]

So anyone want to convince me it is/isn't a terrible route to go down, given all of the above? Anyone started in similar circumstances and stuck with it or abandoned it? Though maybe the latter won't be reading this forum

Gave my opinions above, if they may be of help.

I can relate starting DB at an older age but I always liked DB since I started electric bass in the late 80s, I just found it intimidating. Like when I transferred high schools and didn't sign up for jazz band because I knew the bass player was a DB player even though I was in the jazz band at my previous school on electric bass.

 

[ClusterFlux]

I'm older than you, and started learning DB recently. I wish I'd started 20 years ago. That said...

If you really want to get competent at DB, it's a long-term commitment. I may be wrong, but my guess is it'll take at least a year of lessons and consistent practice just to get your intonation solid enough not to embarrass yourself and/or piss off the horns.

DB and EB do have some overlap, but are fundamentally different instruments. Every hour you spend on DB is an hour you aren't practicing EB.

My impression is DB is still where it's at in terms of playing most types of live jazz... and that live jazz doesn't pay. So yes, if you're trying to earn a buck playing bass (hah!!!) and aren't regularly passed up on paying gigs because you are EB-only, then DB is probably not the way to go.

If you're learning proper technique, you shouldn't have any serious hand or arm issues. That means you will need to take lessons.

People have learned, practiced and played DB in tiny NYC apartments for a few decades. Unless your walls are super thin and/or you are super loud, your neighbors are unlikely to hear pizzicato. I make sure not to play arco too late in the evening.

All that being said... If you really want to do it, stop making excuses and start learning.

 

[BobDeRosa]

I started on DB at 42, never even having played BG before, and it's been fine. I know I probably won't ever be playing Carnegie Hall, but I sure play lots of fun places (maybe even more fun than Carnegie).

I really like Anne's idea in #4 above. Renting a bass will be an excellent test of lots of things.

Just be aware that the one differentiating factor between DB and BG is that to maintain great intonation on the upright, you really need to practice every day. There's no getting around that. Just being able to develop the muscle memory to find the notes once isn't enough because the little suckers seem to move around the fingerboard. The more days of practice you miss, the longer it will take to get good intonation back. As long as you're cool with that life sentence, give it a shot. It's a great instrument.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Buy an EUB & string it lefty, low action for pizz.

- a very cost effective entry point, esp for a lefty.

- Virtually silent practice day or night. Solves the noise/neighbors issue. You’ll have to use headphones or amplification to hear yourself.

- You can use very light gauge strings to solve tendinitis problem.

- easy to transport, easy to store it.


I sold my DB after I bought & got used to a Rob Allen Mouse 30” Fretless piezo bass.
- No pain in arm/neck.
- Great for pizz playing in Jazz/acoustic gigs.
- No amplification or feedback issues live.
- Silent practice at home.
- Easy to carry & store in my 3rd floor apartment (no elevator!).
* You’ll get most of these benefits from an EUB too.

 

[StyleOverShow]

Ditto on the many fine points above: you’re never too old; it takes a commitment; take lessons; careful the DB can hurt you; and it takes a while.

I bought a Chinese 1/2 size to start, graduated to a big boy several months later. I play 90% electric professionally and would play more upright but there are few jazz bands in my small city and the others that might use a DB like bluegrass/string/etc, I’m not interested in.

can’t speak to the lefty except, can’t you just turn the bridge and nut 180 degrees and restring it? Good luck.

 

[oomo]

Thanks for the advice all. It sounds like I'd definitely want to find a teacher to avoid any injury and learn correct technique.

I'd never considered renting an instrument, that's a fantastic idea. I'm thinking maybe I should start there, find a good teacher, then see about maybe renting an instrument (probably a righty). Then that'd help me figure out whether I got on with it at all.

It sounds like it's different enough from BG that starting again on a right-handed instrument wouldn't be a complete setback, and spending some time on that might give me a feel for whether it'd be worth the trouble trying to track down a lefty instrument in the long term without spending a ton up front (fwiw, I'd definitely class myself as very left handed, I write, play golf, shoot, play instruments, drink beer etc. left handed - I'm even left footed when playing football ).

EUB isn't something I'd really considered, but could be an option (though I think I'd be more tempted to go straight into DB to dive in and deal with all the difficulties that go with it). Definitely sounds like someting I might try after at least seeing how I get on with a DB.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

can’t speak to the lefty except, can’t you just turn the bridge and nut 180 degrees and restring it? Good luck.

Not really, the internal construction puts the bass bar under the "bass" side and the soundpost under the treble foot of the bridge. If all you do is reverse the bridge and the stringing, you compromise the ability of the instrument to sound.

 

[Stewie]

I played EB for for more than forty years before our drummer started saying”Buy an upright “ every time we played. I did. I really love playing my fretless Fender, but it’s dang near impossible to put down the upright. Transportation is a pain, and I have a truck. It takes a lot of space and is more delicate than your EB. If you are going to use an amp, it is another whole ballgame to get a good sound.
If you go DB, you won’t want to go back to slabs. Choose wisely.

 

[bassdude51]

Looks like you've already stated all the reasons why you should not get a stand-up bass. I guess that you shouldn't get one.

 

[Jefenator]

Maybe start a parallel thread in the bass guitar forum if you really want to get talked out of double bass.
My experience is a little different from what your local peers have encountered. My mentor told me I'd get more work if I took up the double bass, and based on my gigs over the next 26 years, he didn't lie! At least half of my clients want upright. I might have still had some of that work if I only played electric, but not all of it. (It's almost annoying sometimes - especially when I feel like they're making me squeeze that doghouse onto a cramped stage mostly for visual reasons...)
Another odd thing: I actually solo better on double bass than I do on electric. The greater physical demands seem to channel my focus in ways that yield better ideas & cleaner execution. Nothing a bunch more guitar woodshed time wouldn't fix, but there you have it.
You do have to be careful with the hands, but good technique and a proper setup should mitigate that. (Also: gut strings.)
Transport, I don't know what to say. I'd be a liar if I said DB isn't a pain in the butt sometimes. But I can't quite imagine life without it.
Probably not what you were wanting to hear - sorry...

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

I'm in a similar situation except I'm right handed w/ no injuries (as of now), and in my early 40's (will be 43 soon).

I'd rule out reason #6 (doesn't make a good reason IMO). I'd add #7: while I like jazz, I'm not much of a jazz person. What do I do?

 

[Cal03]

This thread has actually been very inspiring! I've dreamed of playing DB since high school but I resigned myself to being a layperson for the longest time, for many of the same reasons you listed. Since I started playing BG a few years ago, the old dream has been rekindled. I'm still in no position to start learning (living space, work and financial conditions), but maybe I can warm up to it with an EUB (and lessons!) in the meantime...

-Cal.

 

[Evan Carley]

EUB isn't something I'd really considered, but could be an option (though I think I'd be more tempted to go straight into DB to dive in and deal with all the difficulties that go with it).

Rent, don't go down the EUB route. EUBs are not a proper substitute for the real thing, and create as many problems as they solve. Like Ed said, you should venture into upright because you can't see yourself making music without it. If you really want to play upright, the concerns of storage space, transportation, etc. will sort themselves out.

 

[Carl Hillman]

Convince me not to try out DB

I'll defer to Boromir:

But seriously, a "life sentence" is an accurate description of the commitment necessary to play in tune with a good sound. Any chops you build up can, and will, go away if you don't practice.