Cop Stop....Yet Again....

[PerlNinja]

"He also said that being seen loading thousands in gear made me a great car-jack target for the next stop light". I am white, and I find this is a strange thing for the cop to say I think any race of people would be a target in that situation!

I think the cop was more indicating that *anyone* (regardless of race) being seen loading a couple thousand worth of gear would be a nice target.

I can't really contribute much else, I spent a few months living in the USA in the 90's and got pulled over twice; once for doing 80 in a 55, which admittedly came about because I was under the distinct impression that 80 kmh was perfectly fine except for that whole thing of it being mph... and it was 2am so not much traffic on the road to clue me in to the fact I was going a heck of a lot faster than I was supposed to be going.

Got off with a good talking to on that.

Second time was in a little teeny-weeny town in Ohio where I wasn't just "a foreigner", I was "the foreigner" - the reason for getting pulled over by the cop was a busted tail light, and some serious curiosity as to why a Dutch guy would end up living in a town that had (at the time) 3000 residents or so.

Both times the cops in question were polite, obviously still keeping their eyes open and such. Can't really say whether things have changed over the years, I'd still trade any US cop for the local yokels we have here.

Getting pulled over in Indonesia doesn't really require any reason beyond the cop wanting to be paid his $5 to let you off, they'll find some reason and proceed to convince you that going to court etc. etc. is a pain and that the fine can be paid on the spot if you so desire.

 

[phillybass101]

Happens to me all the time when driving home after a gig. I'll have a drink or two just before the first set, and then I'd done. I'm sober for the drive home. You can pretty much count on being pulled over at 2:30/3AM

 

[KGarrett]

I've gotten the ole' 'yea, you were swerving, or that turn didn't look %100 smooth' stops a fews times at night, I've even been given the breathalyzer once, blew a 0.00 :\

One time I got pulled over late at night coming home from a rehearsal on an empty parkway. I was sober and driving as straight as humanly possible within my lane. I'm being followed by a state trooper with no lights on for a while, then for no reason whatsoever I'm pulled over.

Officer One approaches my driver's side window and tells me I was swerving, Officer Two is walking up on my passenger's side. Officer One decided I need to follow his pen with my eyes, no problem really, except I'm still sitting in my car, he's holding the pen like 3 feet from the driver's window and told me he couldn't see me good enough, that I had to lean my head out of the window. He tells me multiple times to lean further and further out of my car, so I've got my head and almost my shoulders literally sticking out the window, using my palms on top of the door support my weight...

while this is going on, Union-Jag-off #2 OPENS my passenger side door(puts his hands on my car door and OPENS IT), he sticks his stupid bald head and flashlight in my car looks around inside, makes the most audible sniffing noise I've ever heard and reports back to Do-nut Inhaler #1 that he smells nothing.

I had had enough of the moron telling me stick my head farther out of the car, it must have been a comical sight if were any third party around. The officer knew this wasn't working, I was completely off balance, he couldn't tell whether I was performing well enough at his test, he looked confused and like he really didn't know how to proceed with his pen trick(this wasn't a young guy either, this was just a guy with no problem solving skills I guess), I suggested to this genius who's forcing me to do an isometric exercise in my car that the follow-the-pen-with-eyes game would work a lot better for both of us if I was standing up. He agrees, I get out, we walk in front of their headlights, I follow his pen with my eyes no problem and the officers let me go home. All that BS, and I had to help the guy do his frickin' job.

Roadblocks and checkpoints are one thing, but randomly stopping people and fabricating probable cause is corrupt, bullying, and lying.

 

[Gaius46]

I've gotten the ole' 'yea, you were swerving, or that turn didn't look %100 smooth' stops a fews times at night, I've even been given the breathalyzer once, blew a 0.00 :\

One time I got pulled over late at night coming home from a rehearsal on an empty parkway. I was sober and driving as straight as humanly possible within my lane. I'm being followed by a state trooper with no lights on for a while, then for no reason whatsoever I'm pulled over.

Officer One approaches my driver's side window and tells me I was swerving, Officer Two is walking up on my passenger's side. Officer One decided I need to follow his pen with my eyes, no problem really, except I'm still sitting in my car, he's holding the pen like 3 feet from the driver's window and told me he couldn't see me good enough, that I had to lean my head out of the window. He tells me multiple times to lean further and further out of my car, so I've got my head and almost my shoulders literally sticking out the window, using my palms on top of the door support my weight...

while this is going on, Union-Jag-off #2 OPENS my passenger side door(puts his hands on my car door and OPENS IT), he sticks his stupid bald head and flashlight in my car looks around inside, makes the most audible sniffing noise I've ever heard and reports back to Do-nut Inhaler #1 that he smells nothing.

I had had enough of the moron telling me stick my head farther out of the car, it must have been a comical sight if were any third party around. The officer knew this wasn't working, I was completely off balance, he couldn't tell whether I was performing well enough at his test, he looked confused and like he really didn't know how to proceed with his pen trick(this wasn't a young guy either, this was just a guy with no problem solving skills I guess), I suggested to this genius who's forcing me to do an isometric exercise in my car that the follow-the-pen-with-eyes game would work a lot better for both of us if I was standing up. He agrees, I get out, we walk in front of their headlights, I follow his pen with my eyes no problem and the officers let me go home. All that BS, and I had to help the guy do his frickin' job.

Roadblocks and checkpoints are one thing, but randomly stopping people and fabricating probable cause is corrupt, bullying, and lying.

I got pulled over for "swerving", in the middle of the afternoon, a couple of months ago and got a ticket for tinted windows. The swerve was to avoid a pot hole that the cop himself must have hit, he was right behind me at the time, and I didn't cross the lane boundary Swerving isn't even defined under NY law as far as I can tell let alone a violation of it.

It felt like a fishing expedition and I am going to fight if only to ask the officer exactly what his justification was.

On the tinted windows the car came to me from the liquidation of my uncle's estate. My uncle was a Florida resident where tinted windows are legal. Never had a car with them and didn't even know it was illegal in NY - the shop that did the safety inspection didn't say anything about them either. Tint was removed that afternoon.

 

[Biggbass]

I have a cousin who is a Dallas PD officer and patrolled the overnights for many years. He once told me that the officers cruising on the overnight shifts assume that if you are on the road between 1am and 4am the chances are 50/50 that you've either been drinking or are up to no good.

 

[kcole4001]

I have a cousin who is a Dallas PD officer and patrolled the overnights for many years. He once told me that the officers cruising on the overnight shifts assume that if you are on the road between 1am and 4am the chances are 50/50 that you've either been drinking or are up to no good.

Happens here all the time too, though they usually know our band vehicles pretty well, except for the new officers (some of whom are d!<&s).
The older guys know who to stop and who to leave alone (our guitar player owns the truck, co-owns the PA, and is always the driver, and he's never drank or smoked in his life and everyone knows this).

Honestly, I'm glad they're at least trying to do their job and get the drunks off the roads.

 

[bryan gibson]

Originally Posted by Biggbass

I have a cousin who is a Dallas PD officer and patrolled the overnights for many years. He once told me that the officers cruising on the overnight shifts assume that if you are on the road between 1am and 4am the chances are 50/50 that you've either been drinking or are up to no good.

Yup, and according to EVERY cop I've ever know (including my late pop) they can tell within 5 seconds whether your (basically) sober or not. Stopped for a malfunctioning light bulb? Ok, I can buy that excuse. Once you suss out that I'm one of the unfortunate 50% that just has a crappy work schedule, and get a return that my record is beyond clean, then there is NO NEED WHATSOVER to demand a search of my vehicle and play the "20 questions so the perp will say something wrong" game. That in a nutshell was the whole fricking point of my original post.

 

[Munjibunga]

DONT EVER GIVE CONSENT TO SEARCH YOUR VEHICLE. NEVER. EVER.

Why? That's dumb. If you tell them no, they're just going to bring out a dog and search it anyway. Declining just means you're going to be there a long time.

 

[Gaius46]

Why? That's dumb. If you tell them no, they're just going to bring out a dog and search it anyway. Declining just means you're going to be there a long time.

Declining gives you options in court if the police do find something. It renders the search, if it actually happens, illegal if it turns out the police didn't have other grounds for searching your vehicle. That's probably a slim hope hope but if you consent to the search anything they find is fair game. More than one person has been arrested for drugs someone else (friend, kid, kid's friend etc) left in their car.

Same with your house. If you invite an officer in because he'd like to peak to you about a noise complaint anything in plain sight is fair game.

 

[Downunderwonder]

The civil libertarians bring the phoney detention on suspicion b/s on y'all. If you simply agreed that "random" breathylizing was a good idea (of course it is!) then the cops would ask you to talk to the machine and you'd be on your way like they do here.

 

[bryan gibson]

Why? That's dumb. If you tell them no, they're just going to bring out a dog and search it anyway. Declining just means you're going to be there a long time.

Two phrases come to mind: "probable cause" and "illegal search and seizure." If I know for a fact that I have nothing to hide, then they have ZERO reason do a search. "Fishing" and "revenue enhancement" are two other phrases that follow that line of reasoning.

 

[BigDaddyMick]

Got stopped late at night after a rehearsal when I was younger, and living in a town in Illinois with mostly corrupt cops.
Cop follows me all over, and finally decides to light em up.

Cop: Out awfully late, aren't we?
Me: The curfew age limit is 17. I'm 19.
Cop: What are you doing out so late?
Me: Doing my lawful business. What is the reason for the stop officer?
Cop: You got a license plate illumination light out.
Me: Which one?
Cop: Both of them.
Me: Impossible. Last week I was pulled over for the same thing. I replaced both bulbs, sockets, and traced every inch of wire throughout this vehicle earlier this week. I even swapped the circuit feed on the left side, and completed vibration and circuit wiggle tests. All work was also double checked by an ASE master certified mechanic, and we road tested this thing in the rain, gravel roads, hills, around corners, everything. There is no possible way that they are BOTH out. Place me in cuffs for your protection, and let's go have a look. I'm dying to see this...
Cop: Remain in your vehicle with your hands on the wheel.
Me: Uh huh. Fine then, as soon as you clear this stop, you gotta know that I'm going back there to see 2 lights lit up, right?
Cop: [walks back to car, ran plate and license, returns. No ticket in hand] Get that, err, those lights fixed.
Me: Sure thing officer...

Cop pulls away, and guess what, BOTH lights are on, nice and bright. Hot too, like they've been on for a while.

Here's my point. Be honest. Don't make me watch your piss poor display of a lie, especially when your body language screams "I'm lying".
Say I was weaving, or something remotely plausible to make the stop. Don't waste my time and money getting things checked that don't need it.
I drove that vehicle for years, with lots of cops behind me, and was never stopped again, anywhere, for a license plate illumination light out.

Coincidence? I think not...

 

[BigDaddyMick]

Two phrases come to mind: "probable cause" and "illegal search and seizure." If I know for a fact that I have nothing to hide, then they have ZERO reason do a search. "Fishing" and "revenue enhancement" are two other phrases that follow that line of reasoning.

^^^^ this.

They wanted to do a search once during another stop, and I denied the search without a warrant. He pissed and moaned about it, but in the end, I drove away. Guess if he REALLY thought he'd find something, he'd have got that warrant...

 

[Hopkins]

I worked for a marine chemical inspection company a few years back. Basically I was doing quality and quantity control for chemicals being loaded on or off of tanker ships. I was driving from the port back to the lab with a sealed container full of some pretty toxic chemicals.

I got pulled over on the way back, and they cop wanted to search the sample boxes in the back of my truck, so I opened one of them up. Then he pulled one of the samples which was clearly labeled as toxic out of the box, and started to open it. I told him, I wouldn't do that without a supplied air respirator and chemical gloves. I showed him three different I.D.'s that showed what my job was, but that wasn't good enough. Three hours later, he let me go after my boss came out and talked to the cop.

At that point I was thinking to myself that I should have just let him open the bottle and smell it

 

[Raudsarw]

Why? That's dumb. If you tell them no, they're just going to bring out a dog and search it anyway. Declining just means you're going to be there a long time.

They need probable cause. Not consenting to searches is not probable cause. Actually, consenting to searches is stupid. There are plenty of things that could go wrong, even if you're innocent. If you own a used car, can you be 100% sure that the previous owner didn't hide something illegal in the car? Or maybe one of your friends left something there by accident? They will probably search your gear too, and don't think they will be careful.

Of course, the police might very well just search your car anyway. There are plenty of bad cops. I'd always keep a recording device ready in the car. Clearly state "I do not consent to any searches", and if the police officer continues to hassle you, ask "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?". It's important to remain calm and respectful, but make sure they know that you know your rights. You don't have to prove your innocence.

 

[BigDaddyMick]

They need probable cause. Not consenting to searches is not probable cause. Actually, consenting to searches is stupid. There are plenty of things that could go wrong, even if you're innocent. If you own a used car, can you be 100% sure that the previous owner didn't hide something illegal in the car? Or maybe one of your friends left something there by accident? They will probably search your gear too, and don't think they will be careful.

Of course, the police might very well just search your car anyway. There are plenty of bad cops. I'd always keep a recording device ready in the car. Clearly state "I do not consent to any searches", and if the police officer continues to hassle you, ask "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?". It's important to remain calm and respectful, but make sure they know that you know your rights. You don't have to prove your innocence.

Excellent points !!

 

[Munjibunga]

Declining gives you options in court if the police do find something. It renders the search, if it actually happens, illegal if it turns out the police didn't have other grounds for searching your vehicle. That's probably a slim hope hope but if you consent to the search anything they find is fair game. More than one person has been arrested for drugs someone else (friend, kid, kid's friend etc) left in their car.

Same with your house. If you invite an officer in because he'd like to peak to you about a noise complaint anything in plain sight is fair game.

Hint: Don't have anything in your car that's going to get you in trouble.

 

[Gaius46]

Hint: Don't have anything in your car that's going to get you in trouble.

1. You don't necessarily know what's in your car that could land you in trouble.

2. You don't know the person you're dealing with. Maybe he's a decent sort maybe he's not.

3. You're 4th amendments rights are one of the few protections you have against the power of the state. Don't be so quick to give them away.

 

[nortonrider]

Hint: Don't have anything in your car that's going to get you in trouble.

Back when I was a kid, a buddy and I got pulled over for looking like hoodlums.
Earlier that day, we hooked up a stereo in his car and still had the screwdriver, wire cutters, etc. sitting in the console.

The cop gave us the biggest hassle for having "burglary tools" in the car.
He even called in for backup!

 

[Munjibunga]

Back when I was a kid, a buddy and I got pulled over for looking like hoodlums.
Earlier that day, we hooked up a stereo in his car and still had the screwdriver, wire cutters, etc. sitting in the console.

The cop gave us the biggest hassle for having "burglary tools" in the car.
He even called in for backup!

So?