could you please sell me on Jaco?

[monkeyfinger]

Zawinal. Yuummmmmm!!

 

[StatesideRambler]

Stick to those who inspire you, those you want to immolate etc.

That's the best line in the whole thread!

 

[madbass6]

I may be impressed by virtuosity but not moved by it. I may hear a simple but soulful part which is not intrinsically impressive but I can be moved by it.
Impressed= intellectual response
Moved= emotional response

Well to me it's very simple,
if I like it I'm impressed , if I don't I'm not ! period.

 

[retslock]

For any bass player to say that they can’t appreciate Jaco’s sense of groove - to me - speaks to a huge lack of appreciation for those elements of musicianship and artistry that makes me wonder what music that person thinks grooves. IMHO, YMMV, yaddayaddayadda.

The thing that stands out in this thread to me is not about skill or knowledge or contribution to music. It’s the disparity that exists between contributors in the perception of “groove”. The intangible quality that exists in the space between notes, the attack and release of notes and how we respond emotionally and intellectually to those qualities. The two examples of “The Chicken” highlight this disparity. I’m fascinated by the very different interpretations. There will never be a coming together on this issue I suspect but it is very interesting that we hear groove so differently.
Thoughout my career I’ve based my musical choices on what grooved and what didn’t. The Duke said it all with “It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing”. Which is why I have always preferred Herbie Hancock over Chick Corea, Harvey Mason over Steve Gadd and Stanley Clarke over Jaco Pastorius. There is an indescribable quality in those players that makes one talk to me more that the other. It’s not the content of their playing, it’s the stuff you can’t grab; the space, the “feeling” that makes music so compelling to me.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I totally agree. And that is an intensely personal thing. Which is fine. However, I think it is sometimes worth making the effort to listen to something that is outside of your comfort zone just to get an understanding of what it has to offer. That is why I've decided to spend the rest of the evening listening to nothing but Kenny Chesney.

 

[matthewbrown]

UPDATE

I completely respect, and value each one of your comments and will likely remember some of the good stuff. I know it can take some effort to hash through spiderwebs. Seeing rants beyond my participation, that ignore what I'm asking, is somewhat disappointing. Taking shots at me personally?.. whatever. that's weird and low.

Please allow me to repost here, and edit into my original post (OP) for clarification, a reply I wrote back on page 11 that I feel was buried by boisterous chatter. We can take this in a positive direction!

I feel like you guys are saying what you want to say, which is awesome, but the topic isn't being addressed. Not more than ONE forum member, have I connected with in here, has the sensitivity to seriously engage on an intellectual level. In regards to Jaco within the confines of a mere thread, I don't care about what you like. I don't care about what you don't like.

What's more, I can't quite identify if I'm learning more about Jaco, or about each one of you individuals.

MY REPOST AND ADD TO OP IS AS FOLLOWS:

“Thank you. This reply is right on mark in regards to the struggles I have in understanding the hype within the crouching Jaco fandom. Some say that ‘it is difficult to truly know someone without having gotten to know their friends’.

Overnight and through this morning, as I contemplate the many above responses, it’s becoming clearer that there is this sort of lurking separation between consumers (who don't know they're being told to “hey look at this” by mainstream media industry), and those who care about their fellow people as individual-beings living along side us in the same broken world.

I'm especially moved by your calling-of-the-nations to take a deeper lesson - one of more than frail surfaces of which are proved no greater than watching a monkey bang cymbals together.

I'm glad you mentioned that you are somewhat unpleased with the fact that his (so called) decline wasn't met with greater personal support or attention. Being regarded as famous is isolating and normally contributes to a subject’s psychological evolution in negative light. If Jaco wasn't an ego-manic (not saying he was or wasn't), the chances that he doubted himself internally are the same as any-average-body.

Knowing one’s self becomes a greater challenge per the amount of feedback given by his success. Fans (you guys who are as such) can see that he has a unique talent, and then go on to say he IS that talent emotionally…which isn't true. Then they level-up even more and want to be him, do what he does, get what he has etc.. In doing so, one would be preventing the advancement of humanity in a snowballing bully bus.

If so many people here have such ideas that Jaco was “da man”, I'm like; bruh, you don't even know him. You're a consumer with a brand loyalty. Yea, people collect bits and bobs of yesteryear, but it's self serving.

My hope would be that the Jaco story doesn't even come to fruition again, but I know it will to some poor soul.

Being supportive, and as a partner is noble (bass players know that right?).” /quote

Wow. Just...wow. "you don't even know him." I'm speechless.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Not arguing that I think Jaco lacked talent or creativity or mastery of the fretboard. However, I think Chuck Rainey and Paul Jackson exercise a certain restraint and tastefulness that often lacks in Jaco's playing - at least to my ears. (And those two are not reserved players by most standards.) Again, this is not a hard fast rule - all musicians overplay or underplay at times. I think there is a "genius" in servicing the song that is not apparent in players who constantly demonstrate their virtuosity, even when it does not fit the situation. To use your analogy, sometimes I feel like Jaco came to low-weight/high-rep days and decided to "max out" anyway. Impressive? Sure. Appropriate? Not always...

True ... Paul and Chuck are bassists according to the literal definition of the term of somebody playing a mainly accompanying instrument ... Jaco not quite always ... especially in his later years during which his pulsion towards new ways of expression was clearly biased by his mental and personal issues

 

[jerry]

I have a Herbie Hancock and the Headhunters live CD with Jaco, and as much as I dig Jaco they are nowhere as great as when they have Paul Jackson as the bassist. Lots of music in this world and it requires all kinds of bassists.

 

[tfer]

He pushed the envelope more than any other player in the history of electric bass.

 

[4001]

There's no room for Jaco riffs in bar band tunes like Jessie's Girl and none of the people buying the beer you are pushing care about Jaco. OP might have a point. The only Weather Report they know is on the 10 PM news.
And jazz SUCKS! Play some Bon Jovi !! The cougars are turned off by fretless Jazz Bass tones..

 

[DrummerwStrings]

There's no room for Jaco riffs in bar band tunes like Jessie's Girl and none of the people buying the beer you are pushing care about Jaco. OP might have a point. The only Weather Report they know is on the 10 PM news.
And jazz SUCKS! Play some Bon Jovi !! The cougars are turned off by fretless Jazz Bass tones..

Which Jazz?

There are plenty of Jazz ballads that can fill the floor when played as the last song of the night.

There are more than a few Rock songs with Jazz solos - start with The Doors & Steeley Dan.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Which Jazz?

There are plenty of Jazz ballads that can fill the floor when played as the last song of the night.

There are more than a few Rock songs with Jazz solos - start with The Doors & Steeley Dan.

The immense Steely Dan ... imagine what could have happened if Jaco could have met Donald Fagen ... maybe nothing as Fagen was quite strict in his writing attitude or maybe Jaco could have been brought to more “urban” ways of expression and would not become mad in trying to be the number one of the number ones ...

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

There's no room for Jaco riffs in bar band tunes like Jessie's Girl and none of the people buying the beer you are pushing care about Jaco. OP might have a point. The only Weather Report they know is on the 10 PM news.
And jazz SUCKS! Play some Bon Jovi !! The cougars are turned off by fretless Jazz Bass tones..

Well, 4001, we all can burp after a good beer and ... then? Jazz sucks? Ahahah ... and Bon Jovi is good music ? Ahahah ... OMG ... let’s say that since not all of us can be Weather Report, some of them decide to be Bon Jovi ...

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I have a Herbie Hancock and the Headhunters live CD with Jaco, and as much as I dig Jaco they are nowhere as great as when they have Paul Jackson as the bassist. Lots of music in this world and it requires all kinds of bassists.

Paul Jackson was indeed the rightest of the guys with Headhunters no questions ...

 

[Grahams Groove]

The thing that stands out in this thread to me is not about skill or knowledge or contribution to music. It’s the disparity that exists between contributors in the perception of “groove”. The intangible quality that exists in the space between notes, the attack and release of notes and how we respond emotionally and intellectually to those qualities. The two examples of “The Chicken” highlight this disparity. I’m fascinated by the very different interpretations. There will never be a coming together on this issue I suspect but it is very interesting that we hear groove so differently.
Thoughout my career I’ve based my musical choices on what grooved and what didn’t. The Duke said it all with “It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing”. Which is why I have always preferred Herbie Hancock over Chick Corea, Harvey Mason over Steve Gadd and Stanley Clarke over Jaco Pastorius. There is an indescribable quality in those players that makes one talk to me more that the other. It’s not the content of their playing, it’s the stuff you can’t grab; the space, the “feeling” that makes music so compelling to me.

Well said.

True ... Paul and Chuck are bassists according to the literal definition of the term of somebody playing a mainly accompanying instrument ... Jaco not quite always ... especially in his later years during which his pulsion towards new ways of expression was clearly biased by his mental and personal issues

Indeed. Maybe the feel and groove mentioned above are also a big part of this, too. Aside from accompanying and complementing the music, I think Chuck and Paul's playing feels better and grooves harder. This speaks more to the intangible, as Jaco certainly had good time. But there's a service to the groove from Chuck & Paul that doesn't seem to be as present or highly prioritized with Jaco. At least to my ears...

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Well said.


Indeed. Maybe the feel and groove mentioned above are also a big part of this, too. Aside from accompanying and complementing the music, I think Chuck and Paul's playing feels better and grooves harder. This speaks more to the intangible, as Jaco certainly had good time. But there's a service to the groove from Chuck & Paul that doesn't seem to be as present or highly prioritized with Jaco. At least to my ears...

I agree !

 

[IamGroot]

Playing Jaco requires highly developed technique for both the left and right hand.

I suppose Jaco could be played with a pick, but all those fast trademark string crossings would be tough.

Same goes for playing 3 fingered on the fretting hand. Jaco was the poster child for four fingered playing. Double that as he played fretless intricate lines with perfect intonation.

 

[monsterthompson]

Love this...

I’m not a fan, but that was the first piece of his that I’ve ever heard and enjoyed a bit of. Thanks for posting.

 

[Plastalmonus]

I’m not a fan, but that was the first piece of his that I’ve ever heard and enjoyed a bit of. Thanks for posting.

It's a James Brown cover

 

[Roxbororob]

It's a James Brown cover

No its not.....

its a Pee Wee Ellis cover....

and Jaco aknowledges that plenty of times, as well as his other (EDIT) borrowed licks.

"....I'm just an imitator, man....."