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could you please sell me on Jaco?

Guys.. it's like saying that Schwarzenegger was not the king of the body builders of its time because irrationally we never liked him .. the truth is that Jaco was a super groover ... his mastery of the 16th notes style with ghost notes, upbeat notes etc was and is phenomenal ... secondly he was a musician far beyond the limits of his primary instrument .. he took the language of be-bop jazz and played it on the electric bass wherever possible... somebody mentioned Stanley Clarke ... Stanley was an amazing funky man with an excellent technique but his musical language was and is substantially limited harmonically wise (pentatonic man we may call him .. Good and well played pentatonic scales but always the same register more or less) ... unfortunately the poor Jaco became mad and probably he also didn't do much to save himself .. in his late recordings you can find the same killer funky refrain of Come on Come over in pieces of tunes which were supposed to be much more jazz oriented, that is not in the right place frankly . . He was doing what he could to remain alive in musical industry terms ... he was without doubts a master musician what, for instance, I don't consider Marcus Miller to be, although I like him a lot ... don't know if these words may contribute towards getting sold about Jaco's works but you may try to listen to what I co wider one of his landmark tunes .. Barbary Coast ... however music is a question of mindset .
. Certain chords of our mind can or cannot be activated by certain external stimuli.. there's nothing to do in this regard. . We're not all the same!
 
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It's fine if you are "not a fan" of Jaco's relationship to the groove, or his tone, or his phrasing, or whatever. I'm not judging you, and I hope no one else is either - it is your loss, not mine. His genius is not up for debate, and *musicians* debating it with purely subjective comments like that you "just never got into him" is pretty out of place.

This seems like a pretty back-handed response. In the same breath you deliver the "to each his own" sentiment and what appears to be a dig at the knowledge/skill/musicianship of anyone who doesn't like one of your heroes.

Jaco was a very technically gifted and cutting edge player, especially in the context of that time period. On the other hand, I don't see why "his genius is not up for debate". My primary bass teacher growing up was a huge Jaco fan, and he wore his influences on his sleeve given the proper musical context. He turned me on to a variety of Jaco tunes, too. Fortunately, he never made it a deal-breaker for me as a musician, in the sense that he was not adamant that I had to study, cop, or even enjoy Jaco's work. I appreciate that even more in retrospect than I did at the time.

I think one of the unfortunate and tangential pieces of baggage that comes with Jaco is that many bass players give you the nod if you simply say that you like or love him, and some of those same players will disregard someone as an unenlightened hack if they don't revel in the music/"genius" of Jaco. I also think that Jaco (much like Jamerson) is one of those heavily exaggerated "influences" cited by lots of players. I believe that tons of bass players enjoy, listen to, and even study some of Jaco's work. I also hear players citing Jaco as a big influence, when their playing and approach does not seem influenced by him in the least. I know that's a different thread and can-of-worms, but it always comes to mind when I see certain names discussed.
 
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Outside of musical tastes, one thing I find the most inspiring about Jaco is his work ethic. How many of us put 2 hours in the woodshed before 10am today?
Even if you hate jazz, you should be inspired by that.

But sell you on Jaco, or on fusion jazz in general? Ok, fine: listening to Jaco increases your chances of getting laid, and with a much higher quality partner. That resistance you may feel is merely your previous brainwaves that mistakenly think Classic Rock will increase your odds. Those thoughts are wrong. Remember, it's not about the music. You're just a bass playing bird making noises to get some. Now get off my lawn.
 
Another thing, if I can, with due respect, putting Jaco Pastorius on the same level of Dee Dee Ramone is at least funny or better sad i should say, as it denotes a certain mind closure ... I'm sure that asking Dee Dee Ramone what he thinks about Jaco's work, he will start praising it as he rightly should... I'm a fan of Paul Jackson and Chuck Rainey but nothing will let me put them close to the great Jaco for the reasons explained in my previous post ...
 
Guys.. it's like saying that Schwarzenegger was not the king of the body builders of its time because irrationally we never liked him .. the truth is that Jaco was a super groover ... his mastery of the 16th notes style with ghost notes, upbeat notes etc was and is phenomenal ... secondly he was a musician far beyond the limits of his primary instrument .. he took the language of be-bop jazz and played it on the electric bass wherever possible... somebody mentioned Stanley Clarke ... Stanley was an amazing funky man with an excellent technique but his musical language was and is substantially limited harmonically wise (pentatonic man we may call him .. Good and well played pentatonic scales but always the same register more or less) ... unfortunately the poor Jaco became mad and probably he also didn't do much to save himself .. in his late recordings you can find the same killer funky refrain of Come on Come over in pieces of tunes which were supposed to be much more jazz oriented, that is not in the right place frankly . . He was doing what he could to remain alive in musical industry terms ... he was without doubts a master musician what, for instance, I don't consider Marcus Miller to be, although I like him a lot ...

Another thing, if I can, with due respect, putting Jaco Pastorius on the same level of Dee Dee Ramone is at least funny or better sad i should say, as it denotes a certain mind closure ... I'm sure that asking Dee Dee Ramone what he thinks about Jaco's work, he will start praising it as he rightly should... I'm a fan of Paul Jackson and Chuck Rainey but nothing will let me put them close to the great Jaco for the reasons explained in my previous post ...

Not arguing that I think Jaco lacked talent or creativity or mastery of the fretboard. However, I think Chuck Rainey and Paul Jackson exercise a certain restraint and tastefulness that often lacks in Jaco's playing - at least to my ears. (And those two are not reserved players by most standards.) Again, this is not a hard fast rule - all musicians overplay or underplay at times. I think there is a "genius" in servicing the song that is not apparent in players who constantly demonstrate their virtuosity, even when it does not fit the situation. To use your analogy, sometimes I feel like Jaco came to low-weight/high-rep days and decided to "max out" anyway. Impressive? Sure. Appropriate? Not always...
 
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Last week it was Lemmy, this week Jaco. Seeing/hearing how others were playing before they came onto the scene is something hard to get across decades after the fact. They were both groundbreakers. You can like Jaco's playing or dismiss it, but if you have any since of the history of bass, you understand how important Jaco is.
I agree with his importance to history. It’s funny. Some his pieces are now part college courses when pursuing music degrees. I think it’s cool. Pretty good for frog farts!
 
Guess I have poor taste. I've tried many times to get into Jaco's stuff. I honestly can't ****ing stand Weather Report. I tried many times to get into that album. Gave up in frustration and annoyance.


Exactly. Jaco's stuff is like brussels sprouts. Healthy, but I will never like it.


I've listened to Heavy Weather many times. I find it tedious. He's a way better bassist than I will ever be, but it just isn't fun to listen to.


I guess I'll never get it. Incredibly boring, monotonous album to my ears.


Is there, though? Is there really? How much do you actually incorporate Jaco's innovations into your day to day playing? Before Jaco... a few great bassists and a lot of non-flashy players pounding out root notes. After Jaco... mostly the same thing.


Imagine listening to Heavy Weather without the keys of Joe Zawinul, probably ALOT more palatable. Zawinul's tone and style are WAY over the top and in my opinion ruined most of the musical ideas in their recordings. I feel the same about Jeff Beck actually.
 
Thankyou; I'm yet another of the "what's the fuss?" brigade, but this explanation makes sense.

Reminds me of trying to explain to kids what the big deal was about Star Wars, actually: it might not do anything for you, with the stuff you've grown up on, but at the time it was groundbreaking.
Yes! This is called 'contextualizing'
 
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putting Jaco Pastorius on the same level of Dee Dee Ramone is at least funny or better sad i should say, as it denotes a certain mind closure
+1

Putting Jaco and Dee Dee on the same level is so ignorant it's not worth discussing.

george are you serious.jpg
 
what the heck are people idolize him anyway? what's missing?

Nope! How can I "sell" you on something? What, point out all the technical details in his playing? What he brought to the instrument that no one before him did? There is NO rule to say you must like and or appreciate any one player! Stick to those who inspire you, those you want to immolate etc. That's on you and you alone!

I appreciate Jaco and love his playing BUT he does not inspire me to play like him at all. I come from a completely different background and approach so there only a slight few things I take from his approach (ghost notes in particular) and utilize. Jaco is Jaco, he had his own trip and I have mine!
 
Can someone please sell me on Taco?


View attachment 3052899
Taco (musician)
Background information
Birth name
Taco Ockerse
Born July 21, 1955 (age 62)
Jakarta, Indonesia
Origin Invalid Link Removed, GermanyInvalid Link Removed[2][3]
Genres Swing, soul, new wave
Occupation(s) Singer, actor, producer, composer, songwriter, scriptwriter
Instruments Vocals
Years active 1979–present
Labels Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed
Taco Ockerse (born July 21, 1955), usually known mononymously as Taco, is an Indonesian-born Dutch singer[4][5] and entertainer who started his career in Germany.Invalid Link Removed[2][3]

Early life[edit]
Taco Ockerse, born in Jakarta, Indonesia on July 21, 1955,Invalid Link Removed had spent many of his childhood years moving around the world, residing in the Netherlands, the United States, Singapore, Luxembourg, Belgium and Germany.[6] He attended the International School of Brussels, Belgium, and graduated in 1973. Afterward, he studied interior decoration and finished acting school in Hamburg. He held lead roles in numerous school productions, including You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown; Carousel; The Fantasticks; and Invalid Link Removed.

In 1975, he began his first professional theatrical engagements in Hamburg.[6] This included roles in Children's Theater, and roles as an ensemble member of the Thalia Theater in a number of plays, including Sweet Charity, Chicago, and Three Musketeers. He also directed and choreographed for the musical Nightchild. In 1979, he played "Chino" in John Neumeier's West Side Story at Hamburg Opera House. He founded his first band, Taco's Bizz, in 1979.

Professional career[edit]
In 1981, Taco signed his first record contract with Polydor (Germany) for two record releases, whereon he released his first single, "Puttin' On the Ritz",[6] which in 1982 was picked up by Invalid Link Removed for US release. His version of the song also had pieces of other Irving Berlin songs, such as "White Christmas". The single was widely played throughout the US by late summer of 1983 eventually peaking at No. 4 in September 1983 on the Hot 100 as well as No. 1 on Cashbox.[7][8]Although the single eventually earned him a Gold-certification for selling over one million copies, it was Taco's only Top 40 hit in the US.[9] In 1983 and 1984, he toured extensively throughout Europe. While the single "Puttin' on the Ritz" topped the charts in Sweden and New Zealand, it entered the Top 5 in numerous countries including Norway, Austria and Canada.[10][11] His subsequent album, After Eight, was released in over 40 countries and managed to reach No. 4 in Norway, No. 5 in Canada, No. 11 in Austria, No. 17 in New Zealand, No. 23 in the United States, and No. 59 in Germany.[12][13][14][15] The album earned Taco a number of Gold certifications including one in Finland for selling over 25,000 copies.[16]

Taco's second single "Singing in the Rain" was a moderate success peaking at No. 49 in Germany, No. 46 in Canada and No. 98 in the UK.[17][18][19]

He appeared as a guest on The Merv Griffin Show, Alan Thicke, Solid Gold, Good Morning America, a Bob Hope TV special, and many other TV shows while touring.[6]

Taco's follow-up album, Let's Face the Music, was recorded in 1984 for Polydor (Germany) which peaked at No. 58 in his home of Germany and managed to enter the Top 100 in Canada peaking at No. 92.[15][20] Taco continued to record, focusing mostly on the German market with albums Swing Classics/In the Mood of Glenn Miller in 1985 and Tell Me That You Like It in 1986 for Polydor. In 1987 he recorded the self-titled album Taco.

In 1989 he briefly flirted with contemporary dance music by releasing a pair of singles, "Love Touch" and "Got to Be Your Lover", that were styled after the high energy disco sound popularized by Stock Aitken Waterman. Afterwards, he repositioned himself as a swing/soul singer. He has collaborated with Geff Harrison of Kin Ping Meh fame.

Between 1989 and 1996, Taco worked as an actor. He had television acting roles in Friedrichstadt Palast and Das Erbe der Guldenburgs, and an appearance in the film Karniggels. He also appeared as "Chico" in the theater production of Marx Brothers Radio Show, and played lead roles in Shakespeare Rock n Roll in Berlin and Shakespeare as We Like It in Austria.

He currently resides in Germany, performing with his band and as a gala artist.
 
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Comment-- I'd also avoid snark toward the OP's question. I once asked someone to help me GET (understand) why a famous jazz record was so respected, and people responded with vitriol -- the guy is trying to understand and appreciate it, not criticize it, in my view...just like I was years ago on a different forum. It's the sort of thinking and querying we should be encouraging, not punishing.

+1 Sometimes ppl just don't know. I've read more than a few threads here where ppl were shocked that someone doesn't know who the Beatles, Hendrix,... were.